Hi, guys! I'm looking for some character-building advice for a D&D guy of mine that I just put through an in-character revelation. I'm looking for a way to express the character shift in a badass way.
The skinny: Telar is a Warmage, taken in slavery when the Red Wizards of Thay razed his village, and inducted into their mage-soldier corps and molded into a weapon of fiery death. He took the opportunity of a solo mission to desert, and had been begun searching for the groundswell support to oppose the Wizards when he (and the other PCs) were inducted into a Supersecret organization as Chosen Ones prophesied to save the universe from some calamity to appear presently. He had been unsuccessful in his attempts to convince the organization that the Red Wizards are the real threat to deal with, when he went back in time.
The party was hurled by a dungeon artifact back to the bygone Golden Age of Magic, when the Gods were more robust, and Arcane energies were potent and volatile. To his dismay, Telar found that in this era too there existed a vile Magistocracy, whose powerful elite lived in floating cities among the clouds and visited casual destruction and misery on those below.
And then he got hopped up on Halfling shrooms.
He was searching for some good liquor and settled on a mysterious brew from a Halfling caravan. Next thing he knew, the world was a magical spinning place of color and wonder (there might have been singing involved). The morning after, I was thinking to myself, what if this little diversion actually provoked an Epiphany in the poor boy? And then I had it: for the first time, Telar actually experienced Maaagic. He casts spells, sure, but he's never known the well of beauty and mystery from which it sprang. Now he knows the true nature of the Arcane which he was denied by the power-hungry Red Wizards: it is Creation, the thread that runs through all life and indeed, all that is.
So that's where we stand. I'm wanting to play it sort of distant and otherworldly, touched, if you will, possessed of new wisdom but unnerving even his closest friends. I'm not giving up Telar's mission to topple Thay, though. Rather his new perspective makes him more dangerous than he ever was as a mere disgruntled artillery grunt. The group's about to return to their present, and I'd love to work this in as Telar taking back with him some Power before which even the Red Wizards tremble. Sort of Enlightenment with teeth.
So the challenge is to represent this all mechanically in D&D. Right now I've got a Level 6 Human Warmage with Able Learner, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Improved Init, armed with a Flaming Burst sickle and Bracers of Entangling Blast. I'd appreciate any build proposals to do "mysterious and loopy, but dangerous." I've got my eye on Truenamer, descriptively, but haven't been able to check out the mechanics yet. I'm entertaining simple class change as well as the possibility of a Rebuild Quest, especially if the latter can be spun as some sort of Promethean theft of the Mysteries of the Cosmos. Feel free to suggest classes/feats/whatever from any and all books, but be prepared to explain if I'm unfamiliar. I'd like to see a lot of funky magic options, though keeping some blasting power and martial capability is preferable.
Thanks in advance for the help!
Peace,
-Joel
See... I may be the very wrongest guy to advise here for a couple of reasons.
Namely: I think the warmage class is nothing more than munchkin crack candy for twinkfucks who think that D&D is all about flippign through the monster manual for the next big kill.
But...
I'd just let him 'rejigger' by saying his mind expanding made him a straight up wizard of sixth level. Still blasty but now with more access to hippy-trippy spells. Best of all, everyone knows the rules if they play D&D more than once.
What does that "learner" ability do?
Here's some basic advice from the CharOp forums: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=463783
Rainbow Servant is the traditional munchkin choice, and the flavour isn't too bad IIRC. It's something to do with serving the forces of goodness and light, possibly the coatls. You'd end up unable to cast 9th level spells, but you'd know the entire warmage and cleric spell lists, plus 3 domains. You'd basically go Warmage 10 / RS 10, which is simple enough conceptually to get past most DMs.
Truenamers appear to be a popular mix, though I don't own Tome of Magic. I do know that all successful Truenamer / Warmage builds revolve around eventually taking the Anima Mage dual-casting PrC.
One last option, though the flavour might need some reworking is to use Master of the Arcane Order. The basic idea of drawing spell levels from a bank and the mechanics supporting it can be kept (maybe you can convince your DM to scrap the Cooperative Spell pre-req for something more appropriate), and just change the flavour. Rather than drawing on the Spellpool of his order, he might tap into the Weave, or somehow draw on this source of magical energy he's just discovered. MoAO is a very strong PrC for casters with limited spell lists, and the versatile casting the PrC brings would represent a significant boost in power for the character.
beejazz> Able Learner lets you pay for ranks in any skill as if they were class skills. You are still, IIRC, limited to the maximum number of cross-class skill ranks you can normally have though.
Spike> Warmages are actually well balanced. They can deal a lot of damage, but lack versatility and variety (they also have the one-level delay of all spontaneous spellcasters). My next-to-most-recent campaign featured one, and his character was very well balanced with my illusionist.
Psuedo: I understand the balance behind them, that's why I describe them the way I do. They are stupidly capable at blowing shit up and not really useful for anything else. Period.
Thus they seem tailor made for those players whose ideal GM is the guy that only knows the monster manual and the treasure chart. They make warriors seem versatile and unnecessary at the same time.
Thanks pseudo. Also, haven't been through the prc books in ages, but I'd second the rainbow servant. Can't imagine how I forgot that guy.
Quote from: SpikeNamely: I think the warmage class is nothing more than munchkin crack candy for twinkfucks who think that D&D is all about flippign through the monster manual for the next big kill.
I know where you're coming from. I'll admit the WM's abilities are pretty. . .direct. I chose it because A) I liked the Spartacus-y angle I saw for the character concept, and B) the simple blastiness of the spell list seemed like a good way to get my feet wet playing a caster.
Quote from: SpikeI'd just let him 'rejigger' by saying his mind expanding made him a straight up wizard of sixth level. Still blasty but now with more access to hippy-trippy spells. Best of all, everyone knows the rules if they play D&D more than once.
That actually is a perfectly serviceable option that I am considering. . .a lot of what I want to do with the character is in how I
play it. So I can get the magic froma garden-variety (meta-speaking) source and it'll work fine so long as I'm all spooky with it. I would like to see what other flavors of magic power are available though, 'cause if there's some wierd option out there that fits my concept to a T, so much the better. Plus I think I'll get more player respect if I've got some power no one else has, as opposed to "What are you getting all Dr Strange on us for? It's just a vamnilla Wizard, for chrissakes!":)
Peace,
-Joel
Damn, a perfectly good 'go for the throat' solution killed because of metagame knowledge...
...le sigh.:p
Yeah, sometimes bringing in an even slightly 'off the wall' character concept requires a really off the wall solution so you don't get frap from the other players of being goofy with something so ordinary. All unfairlike if ya asks me....
Beejazz: Pseudo's got it on the Able Learner feat. I took it to round out Telar's physical abilities a bit, giving him a decent passel o' scout-like skill ratings to represent his military recon training. Actually, I think Able Learner is really just how cross-class skills should be handled, period. Lower maximums I can dig, but double cost is for the birds.
Peace,
-Joel
Quote from: SpikeDamn, a perfectly good 'go for the throat' solution killed because of metagame knowledge...
...le sigh.:p
Yeah, sometimes bringing in an even slightly 'off the wall' character concept requires a really off the wall solution so you don't get frap from the other players of being goofy with something so ordinary. All unfairlike if ya asks me....
I know whatcha mean, man. I mean, why should harnessing the elemental forces of Creation to fell enemies and work wonders be anything special?:confused:
If it makes you feel any better, I may still go with it, and fuck 'em if they're too jaded for it.
Peace,
-Joel
Quote from: PseudoephedrineRainbow Servant is the traditional munchkin choice, and the flavour isn't too bad IIRC. It's something to do with serving the forces of goodness and light, possibly the coatls. You'd end up unable to cast 9th level spells, but you'd know the entire warmage and cleric spell lists, plus 3 domains. You'd basically go Warmage 10 / RS 10, which is simple enough conceptually to get past most DMs.
Truenamers appear to be a popular mix, though I don't own Tome of Magic. I do know that all successful Truenamer / Warmage builds revolve around eventually taking the Anima Mage dual-casting PrC.
One last option, though the flavour might need some reworking is to use Master of the Arcane Order. The basic idea of drawing spell levels from a bank and the mechanics supporting it can be kept (maybe you can convince your DM to scrap the Cooperative Spell pre-req for something more appropriate), and just change the flavour. Rather than drawing on the Spellpool of his order, he might tap into the Weave, or somehow draw on this source of magical energy he's just discovered. MoAO is a very strong PrC for casters with limited spell lists, and the versatile casting the PrC brings would represent a significant boost in power for the character.
Some interesting options there. From your description, Rainbow Servant looks pretty wicked, too good to be true, in fact--every Cleric and Warmage spell? Wow. What's the downside? nasty Prereqs? Nerfed spell potency? The book leaps on you and castrates you when you acquire the new class?
The Truenamer, on the other hand, is looking like a disappointment. Cool in concept and all (actually awesome in concept. Reminds me of Zu Magic from Shadow of Yesterday), but. . .are they serious? Truenaming Check DC is 15 + (CR*2)?? That has to be the only ability I've ever seen that gets harder to use as you level. a Level 1 Truenamer with maxed ranks AND Skill Focus will succeed against a CR1 opponent 75% of the time. But my Level 6 char will only succeed against a CR 6 target. . .50% of the time? And it only gets worse from there? WTF? I keep thinking there's something I'm missing there. But the math doesn't lie. Too bad, 'cause I love the concept.
MoAO sounds intriguing. . .can you tell me more about how the "Spell Bank" works? And what's the Anima Mage do exactly?
Please note, by the way, that I don't actually own a lot of supplements myhself, though I do have access to most of them through friends. This thrtead will at the very least help me figure out where to look.
Peace,
-Joel
Rainbow Servant isn't particularly hard to get into, it's just powerful. It was meant to boost sorcerors, but it benefits any spont caster. It's from Complete Divine. The only hard part is a flavour requirement that you have to "find the hidden jungle temples of the couatls". You do lose 4 caster levels though, so be sure to take practiced spellcaster to at least keep your CL up.
In exchange for that, you get three domains, detect evil, chaos and thoughts at will, cleric spell list access, and wings for up to a minute per class level a day. Also, the skill list is better.
MoAO is a classic PrC from Complete Arcane. The idea is that of a mage who is involved in an arcane order that maintains a "spellpool", which is really just a magic piggy bank. Basically, the wizard can withdraw extra spell levels / slots per day from the spellpool, so long as he eventually burns slots to pay the bank back (there are constraints on how much you can withdraw). One of the really sweet things about this PrC is that the spell slots you withdraw let you cast any spell from the Sorc/Wiz list, even if you don't normally use the Sorc/Wiz list, and even if you're a specialist and it's from your banned school. Those two quirks make this a very strong PrC, since they let arcane casters like Warmages fill in gaps in their knowledge of low level utility spells. The requirements aren't too bad - you have to take a crappy metamagic feat (the PrC refunds you the feat with a bonus metamagic feat), pay some money to the order, and spend some downtime minding its business.
As for Anima Mage, it's a dual-caster, so it advances your Truenaming skill (or whatever) at the same time as it boosts your regular spellcasting. I don't know anything about it other than that, and that it's found in Tome of Magic.
I have a thought for you. Although be it a simple one. If your "blaster" warmage has become enlightened to the true ways of magic. Why not multiclass him with sorcerer. Sorcerers dont memorize spels so to speak they channnel magic. With your characters recent enlightenment I would think this would be agood angle to pursue. Not to mention it opens up your spell choices from being just a blaster.
Oh, it might seem like a subpar option, but you should consider cross classing spirit shaman. "Magic of the world" and all that. It's a semi-spontaneous druidic caster. Would work great with mystic theurge too.
Thanks for the info, Pseudo. I had a friend check out the Rainbow Servant for me, and it looks like, since the Cleric list access doesn't come until RS 10, it might not have much to offer starting out. Not that I'm expecting godlike power from the get-go, but I;'d at least like enough unique ability to be able to go, "Hey! look at THIS freaky scary shit I can do!" Still, I'm considering it. I'll have to look over the domain lists and see if they seem worth it or appropriate to me. Also, it would depend a lot on whether the DM would be willing to let me "find the hidden Temple of the Coatls" within his current setting and sutuation, or work with me to invent a reasonable equivalent.
MoAO does look pretty sweet, and reflects my concept pretty well. I'm wondering what alternative I'd propose to the whole "belong to an Order" thing, more in keeping with the flavor of what I'm trying to do. And again, it would depend on how flexible the DM is on those points.
Does anyone know enough about the Truenamer class to tell me if my impression is on target: that the class is totally fucked? It all comes down to the skill check DC, which from my reading makes using it on equal opponents harder as you level and eventually impossible. Am I reading it wrong, or is there an easy tweak that balances oout the numbers? The class looks megaq-cool, but unplayable.
Peace,
-Joel
Oh, and Beejazz, thanks for the tip. I'll check out Spirit Shaman, sounds cool. And something Mystic Theurge-able is definitely a plus.