Which one would you prefer to run or play right now and why? It seems like DCC is in some ways more crunchy and in others almost free form compared to 5e.
I've run DCC but only Played a few games of 5e online.
Still... it's DCC for me.
Its main layer of crunch seems to be in the random spell charts. Outside of those, like you mention, it feels more free-form to me... with the Fighter's 'Mighty Deeds' being up to the player's imagination... and the lack of Feats and Skill lists. It's a big book but plays fast and free.
5e is definitely more to my liking than 3rd and 4th editions (or 2nd for that matter, from what little I know of it)... but still a bit kludgy... with skills and various options that in all likelihood will not be seen as optional by most Players. The fast healing thing... meh.
I'd happily play it again, but I don't want to run it.
For my tastes, it's no replacement for DCC or LotFP or S&W... though I'm hoping it does well and fires up some interesting 3rd party stuff (the official adventures so far don't look very interesting to me). I'm already seeing lots of fun ideas for 5e on the blogs... stuff I can pretty easily use in the OSR games I prefer.
Quote from: RabidWookie;785335Which one would you prefer to run or play right now and why? It seems like DCC is in some ways more crunchy and in others almost free form compared to 5e.
I lean to 5e because it's far more familiar to me but the spells/corruption of DCC is so Mage the Awakening 2e to me....there HAS to be a way to steal that for my future 5e game.
DCC is sriracha & tequila shots.
5e is Miracle Whip on Wonder Bread.
Quote from: Spinachcat;785342DCC is sriracha & tequila shots.
5e is Miracle Whip on Wonder Bread.
Neither of which is a bad thing
Quote from: Marleycat;785340I lean to 5e because it's far more familiar to me but the spells/corruption of DCC is so Mage the Awakening 2e to me....there HAS to be a way to steal that for my future 5e game.
There is. Use the DCC magic system but all the other rules of 5e. A few weeks back, I had the spell caster roll on the mercurial magic table every time she cast a spell. It was a one-shot, so we never bothered with corruption. Worked great!
VS
This is how I see it:
I'd use D&D 5e for a game that feels like post-Dragonlance, middle-to-new-school D&D. Forgotten Realms, Eberron, your favorite TSR AD&D 2e-era setting or Paizo adventure path, or that homebrew setting you came up with when D&D 3.0e came out and you returned to D&D after years of playing White Wolf or GURPS or whatever.
I'd use DCC for super-gonzo, old-schooler-than-old-school D&D from TSR, Judges Guild and the OSR. The first D&D setting you created, Greyhawk with the 1982 World of Greyhawk book, the First Fantasy Campaign, your favorite TSR or Judges Guild module, Anomalous Subsurface Environment, Vornheim, Dwimmermount, Rob's Majestic Wilderlands and Blackmarsh, Aos' Metal Earth, Jack Shear's World Between, VectorSigma's Wampus Country and of course, the very evocatively named and illustrated adventures from Goodman Games.
DCC in spades. It at least resembles D&D.
I've been a player of DCC for a while now, and am itching to run 5e.
DCC is more free-wheeling, make-it-up-as-you-go-along in play (Mighty Deeds, skill DCs by occupation etc.).
Magic has a stronger sword&sorcery bent to it, due to the possibility to achieve epic effects even with lvl 1 spells, and due to corruption.
Divine Magic is more evocative due to the Patron Disapproval table.
Monsters are easier to crib from other OSR sources as the stat blocks are much closer (at least for now - maybe the 5e DMG or MM1 will have better conversion notes). OTOH cribbing spells is a real pain in the neck as you need to come up with misfire, corruption and some dozen spell effects.
5e is more structured and more geared towards balance - there is no such thing as killing someone 100 miles away with a magic missile due to a good roll and a blood sacrifice. But neither is there the risk of corruption, making it a better fit for settings where magic is a neutral force that can safely be harnessed by men.
What 5e offers is more cogs and wheels for character customization. In addition to the mix of races and classes (which you don't have in DCC RAW), there are backgrounds, sub-classes, and optionally feats (which are actually rare and have immediate impact, unlike 3.x feats).
Both are good games, and I would play both of them. As for running, I would rather run 5e, but that maybe due to it being fresh und untested yet, and may change in some months as I got my fix of 5e.
Um. I'll bite.
What's DCC?
Quote from: Will;785378Um. I'll bite.
What's DCC?
Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG - Goodman Games self-proclaimed "Appendix N" role-playing game.
The official page is here: http://www.goodman-games.com/dccrpg.html
A review by Pundit is there, which lists all the important bits: http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2014/04/rpgpundit-reviews-dungeon-crawl.html
I've played and run both and am a fan of both, and I find this a tough choice. And, unfortunately, it feels like a choice I have to make because there are only so many hours in the day and I don't think I can keep a campaign going for two different high-fantasy D&D variants at the same time.
DCC is clearly the more creative and interesting book. Much of the art is fantastic. And its most distinguishing traits — the funnel, deeds of arms, spell tables, corruption, luck — are all terrific game play ideas. If I'm going to sit and leaf through a game book to relax, it is DCC all the way.
On the other hand, it can be a pain to run. You are constantly flipping around to find the right spell and crit table. I can never remember just how I'm supposed to adjudicate patron magic and corruption. Deeds of arms are a kind of piggy-in-the-middle system: in practice more like a set of wrote fighter abilities than you might think, and the exceptions when someone makes up a new trick often amount to 'I declare that I miraculously win this fight I'm losing!'. It can be hard to DM an player who wants to use these rules to always get his way.
5E maintains the scent of corporate sleeze given off by all WoC products. But it is a fucking good game. And totally easy to run. And it has either jacked or effectively jacked nearly everything I like about DCC's system. 0-level funnel? Super easy: have campaigns start with characters who have backgrounds and commoner HP but no class. Deeds? The battlemaster abilities plus creative use of ability checks pretty much covers it all. Magic? Between sorcerer wild magic and warlock patrons there are plenty of outlets for gonzo fun, but the core remains the rock-solid, fast playing magic system that has always been a D&D strength.
For these reasons, much as I like DCC I'm basically taking its adventures and vibe and using them to fuel 5E games.
I love DCC but I have one pet peeve: Mighty Deeds of Arms.
I've been doing special combat moves ever since my D&D RC days, with modified attack rolls for combat maneuvers such as tripping, disarming, forcing movement, etc. When I got Iron Heroes I really enjoyed the "combat challenges" which were essentially suggested guidelines for the same sort of inventive combat action.
Not to diss on DCC's particular implementation of the concept, but I don't see why they should be Warrior-specific. I'm more than okay with the Warrior being vastly better at if than anyone else, but I feel the Thief, too, should get a shot at throwing a dagger right into a cyclops' eye to blind him, and the Wizard also gets to trip a goblin with his staff.
Since a 1st-level Warrior has to roll a 3 on 1d3 in addition to his attack roll landing, you can demand any additional roll with a probability lower than 1/3 in addition to a regular attack roll for non-Warrior deeds. I'd suggest 4 on 1d4 for a Thief and 6 on 1d6 for a Wizard but anything less than 1/3 should be good.
This is a minor thing, though. There's still a lot to love about DCC. It reads like B/X on crack and because of this I think it goes great with a lot of what the OSR has cranked out.
D&D 5e is different. It's new school, it appeals to a very different vibe and aesthetic. But so far it's a new school fantasy game I can totally get behind, which is something I've been missing from my game shelf for a while now (I was even looking into Dungeon World to fill the niche). Looking forward to the MM and DMG.
DCC has a wonderful punk-rock energy to it and has it's own "Feel" that really sets it apart from other D&D cover bands. It's a great game and I had a blast the two times I played it.
However... almost every action requires rolling on charts. It would be almost physically impossible to play DCC without having multiple copies of the rulebook and/or access to a PDF copy and a printer. So, D&DV wins by a nose.
Quote from: Larsdangly;7853965E maintains the scent of corporate sleeze given off by all WoC products.
LOL, I love D&DV but I know exactly what you mean.
Yeah, when D&D got assimilated by the Borg the hobby underwent a transition that can't be undone. It used to be that cool, gonzo ideas and freaky art could be found in both insider and outsider games, and the borders between styles of games were vague. Now there is this sharp divide between corporate games, with their glossy artwork and douche-y writing and lame packaged settings, and the indie games that let it rip. 5E can take all the ideas it wants from the smaller games, but it can't shake the nasty funk of The Man.
Quote from: JRR;785376DCC in spades. It at least resembles D&D.
More than the thing that actually
is D&D?;)
DCC does have the advantage of not having two months to kill until the DMG becomes available, if you find the aesthetic to your tastes.
Quote from: Larsdangly;7853965E maintains the scent of corporate sleeze given off by all WoC products.
That must be what my PHB smells like then.
I had the DCC rpg for a bit- the biggest hurdle I had was reading the pages. The text went straight into the page's gutter, making reading a chore.
Quote from: Larsdangly;7854045E can take all the ideas it wants from the smaller games, but it can't shake the nasty funk of The Man.
I think that will always be an issue for me. It's just a preference I have for that DIY end of the pool... could be anything. I try not to eat at chain restaurants, I prefer smaller indie movies and 'auteur' films, college radio stations, music that isn't Top 40... Youtube channels over most mainstream TV.
It seems to me that as soon as things get too 'professional' and start involving more money, more people sticking their noses in... and content generally gets watered down in favor of pleasing a wider audience.
Even at the micro-niche level of RPGs, 5e has that air of wanting to be a bit 'all things for all people' while DCC and LotFP definitely do not.
I guess that's a 'bad attitude' but it keeps things interesting.
Quote from: The Butcher;785373This is how I see it:
I'd use D&D 5e for a game that feels like post-Dragonlance, middle-to-new-school D&D. Forgotten Realms, Eberron, your favorite TSR AD&D 2e-era setting or Paizo adventure path, or that homebrew setting you came up with when D&D 3.0e came out and you returned to D&D after years of playing White Wolf or GURPS or whatever.
I'd use DCC for super-gonzo, old-schooler-than-old-school D&D from TSR, Judges Guild and the OSR. The first D&D setting you created, Greyhawk with the 1982 World of Greyhawk book, the First Fantasy Campaign, your favorite TSR or Judges Guild module, Anomalous Subsurface Environment, Vornheim, Dwimmermount, Rob's Majestic Wilderlands and Blackmarsh, Aos' Metal Earth, Jack Shear's World Between, VectorSigma's Wampus Country and of course, the very evocatively named and illustrated adventures from Goodman Games.
Amazing.
Matching system to setting and game style. what a thought.
Quote from: Marleycat;785340I lean to 5e because it's far more familiar to me but the spells/corruption of DCC is so Mage the Awakening 2e to me....there HAS to be a way to steal that for my future 5e game.
I'm doing 5e RAW at first...but I do so love the DCC magic system...
Quote from: LordVreeg;785484Amazing.
Matching system to setting and game style. what a thought.
Yeah, I know, super original. It's not like anyone else here has ever stated a setting design rule about calibrating system to setting expectations and/or vice-versa. ;)
Quote from: The Butcher;785373This is how I see it:
I'd use D&D 5e for a game that feels like post-Dragonlance, middle-to-new-school D&D. Forgotten Realms, Eberron, your favorite TSR AD&D 2e-era setting or Paizo adventure path, or that homebrew setting you came up with when D&D 3.0e came out and you returned to D&D after years of playing White Wolf or GURPS or whatever.
I'd use DCC for super-gonzo, old-schooler-than-old-school D&D from TSR, Judges Guild and the OSR. The first D&D setting you created, Greyhawk with the 1982 World of Greyhawk book, the First Fantasy Campaign, your favorite TSR or Judges Guild module, Anomalous Subsurface Environment, Vornheim, Dwimmermount, Rob's Majestic Wilderlands and Blackmarsh, Aos' Metal Earth, Jack Shear's World Between, VectorSigma's Wampus Country and of course, the very evocatively named and illustrated adventures from Goodman Games.
I'd do the opposite.
I find the weirdness of DCC stacks with local weirdness so much that fights involving DCC people take 2-3 times as long because everybody has a spell or patron bond or deed or corruption they gotta factor in to half the rolls. So if I had a vanilla setting I'd add DCC for flavor and if I had a weird setting I'd use 5e (which I am). 5e's (like most D&Ds) is pretty flexible.
Quote from: Zak S;785502I'd do the opposite.
I find the weirdness of DCC stacks with local weirdness so much that fights involving DCC people take 2-3 times as long because everybody has a spell or patron bond or deed or corruption they gotta factor in to half the rolls. So if I had a vanilla setting I'd add DCC for flavor and if I had a weird setting I'd use 5e (which I am). 5e's (like most D&Ds) is pretty flexible.
That's an intriguing thought, but isn't a world ruled by DCC's weirdness-generating logic bound not to stay "vanilla" for long? I mean, it's kind of hard to rendezvous with Elminster (or whoever your Merlin/Gandalf stand-in might be) by the hearth of a cozy Dalelands tavern when he's got cloven hooves and scaly skin and tentacles coming out of his chin.
Quote from: The Butcher;785504That's an intriguing thought, but isn't a world ruled by DCC's weirdness-generating logic bound not to stay "vanilla" for long? I mean, it's kind of hard to rendezvous with Elminster (or whoever your Merlin/Gandalf stand-in might be) by the hearth of a cozy Dalelands tavern when he's got cloven hooves and scaly skin and tentacles coming out of his chin.
Which is fun to watch happen.
I mean if you want vanilla vanilla vanilla then, yeah, don't play DCC at all.
Quote from: The Butcher;785504That's an intriguing thought, but isn't a world ruled by DCC's weirdness-generating logic bound not to stay "vanilla" for long? I mean, it's kind of hard to rendezvous with Elminster (or whoever your Merlin/Gandalf stand-in might be) by the hearth of a cozy Dalelands tavern when he's got cloven hooves and scaly skin and tentacles coming out of his chin.
That would be about the only way Elminsters mary sue ass would be interesting at this point.
Elminster spouting tentacles from his ass!?
For when is that game being scheduled, and are there still spots in it? Calling dibs on the rogue who pops out of the shadows, points fingers at him and says "Haha!".
Quote from: The Butcher;785373I'd use DCC for ... VectorSigma's Wampus Country
Interesting that you say that, as I'm considering using 5e for my next Wampus Country campaign.
I like both DCC and 5e. 5e has a certain neutrality to it - or rather, the implicit assumptions are so de rigeur that it doesn't _seem_ to have assumptions, if that makes any sense; while DCC has its own voice which is awesome but unavoidable. "Let's play DCC, but without the gonzo" is a goofy thing to say, right? There's also that (possibly unfair) perception-baggage that DCC is great for one-shots but not great for campaign play.
Quote from: Simlasa;785480I think that will always be an issue for me. It's just a preference I have for that DIY end of the pool... could be anything. I try not to eat at chain restaurants, I prefer smaller indie movies and 'auteur' films, college radio stations, music that isn't Top 40... Youtube channels over most mainstream TV.
It seems to me that as soon as things get too 'professional' and start involving more money, more people sticking their noses in... and content generally gets watered down in favor of pleasing a wider audience.
Even at the micro-niche level of RPGs, 5e has that air of wanting to be a bit 'all things for all people' while DCC and LotFP definitely do not.
I guess that's a 'bad attitude' but it keeps things interesting.
So you're a hipster, then. :p
Quote from: The Butcher;785496Yeah, I know, super original. It's not like anyone else here has ever stated a setting design rule about calibrating system to setting expectations and/or vice-versa. ;)
love you, man.
You get it.
It is rarely a 'system x vs system y'.
Just a conversation which system does what you want to game better.
Quote from: VectorSigma;785536Interesting that you say that, as I'm considering using 5e for my next Wampus Country campaign.
Touché. :)
Quote from: VectorSigma;785536I like both DCC and 5e. 5e has a certain neutrality to it - or rather, the implicit assumptions are so de rigeur that it doesn't _seem_ to have assumptions, if that makes any sense; while DCC has its own voice which is awesome but unavoidable. "Let's play DCC, but without the gonzo" is a goofy thing to say, right? There's also that (possibly unfair) perception-baggage that DCC is great for one-shots but not great for campaign play.
DCC has a lot of personality and so does Wampus Country and I see how the two might clash. But since I've filed Wampus under "weird D&D", if I was running it with I'd use DCC for additional "not in [strike]Kansas[/strike] Karameikos anymore" feel.
As for the idea that DCC is a one-off game, I suspect some of DCC's mechanics, especially magic (Corruption, item creation, patron pacts), only really reach their full potential in a longer game.
Quote from: LibraryLass;785542So you're a hipster, then. :p
Is that what hipsters are about? Around here they seem to only go to what's new and trendy and overpriced.
I guess it does come off as pretentious... I just don't like corporate crap.
Not that I won't PLAY 5e. I just got done with a run of it on Roll20... had fun.
Quote from: Simlasa;785480I think that will always be an issue for me. It's just a preference I have for that DIY end of the pool... could be anything. I try not to eat at chain restaurants, I prefer smaller indie movies and 'auteur' films, college radio stations, music that isn't Top 40... Youtube channels over most mainstream TV.
It seems to me that as soon as things get too 'professional' and start involving more money, more people sticking their noses in... and content generally gets watered down in favor of pleasing a wider audience.
Even at the micro-niche level of RPGs, 5e has that air of wanting to be a bit 'all things for all people' while DCC and LotFP definitely do not.
I guess that's a 'bad attitude' but it keeps things interesting.
It's not just as long as you understand and accept those that prefer a more mainstream approach and forms of entertainment. I'm not 18 anymore but I am neither dead or have rejected my nerdism or rebel roots. And I LOVE Dragonlance, especially with a twist.:)
I tried DCC at a con recently. The game I was going to play wasn't going to happen for lack of players, so I got pulled into a DCC game with Harley Stroh.
I'm not entirely sure what's really cool about DCC, having played it. You have stats, you have skills, you roll the d20 plus your skill and see what happens, which I've been doing since 3rd edition. I did rather like it when the wizard-guy put someone to sleep forever, but I wasn't playing a wizard, and the wizard was immediately killed, so although it was cool, it wasn't a ton of fun, really. The idea of the adventure was amusing and fun, sure, but that didn't depend on DCC, it was just a fun fantasy adventure. And being disemboweled by a teammate because I rolled a 1 on initiative was really lame.
So, I'm willing to try DCC again... but between that and 5th edition, I'm much more interested in playing 5th.
There's a difference of trying lots of things and knowing what you prefer... vs. never ever stepping outside of the comfort zone to explore... "That place looks dirty!"... "Those people look weird!"... "That game looks like it has too many charts!"
Quote from: jcfiala;785563I'm not entirely sure what's really cool about DCC, having played it. You have stats, you have skills, you roll the d20 plus your skill and see what happens, which I've been doing since 3rd edition.
As the Butcher mentions, I think there are things about DCC (and most games) that won't seem distinctive until after you've played for a while.
The 5e games I've played in haven't seemed much different at all from my weekly Pathfinder sessions ("You have stats, you have skills, you roll the d20 plus your skill and see what happens")... so far.
These 'vs.' threads implying it's one or the other, when obviously it can be both. There are plenty of settings/flavors I wouldn't pick DCC for... Magic World/Openquest would my choice for a more stable fantasy setting.
Quote from: The Butcher;785373This is how I see it:
I'd use D&D 5e for a game that feels like post-Dragonlance, middle-to-new-school D&D. Forgotten Realms, Eberron, your favorite TSR AD&D 2e-era setting or Paizo adventure path, or that homebrew setting you came up with when D&D 3.0e came out and you returned to D&D after years of playing White Wolf or GURPS or whatever.
I'd use DCC for super-gonzo, old-schooler-than-old-school D&D from TSR, Judges Guild and the OSR. The first D&D setting you created, Greyhawk with the 1982 World of Greyhawk book, the First Fantasy Campaign, your favorite TSR or Judges Guild module, Anomalous Subsurface Environment, Vornheim, Dwimmermount, Rob's Majestic Wilderlands and Blackmarsh, Aos' Metal Earth, Jack Shear's World Between, VectorSigma's Wampus Country and of course, the very evocatively named and illustrated adventures from Goodman Games.
Nice analysis!
I like both games and both have very different flavors to them. DCC is more like OD&D in feel, only with a kickass spellcasting system. 5E is more like "what AD&D 3E should have been" if sanity had been maintained in 2000 when WotC released their 3E version.
Different games for different feel, both great!
Quote from: jcfiala;785563I tried DCC at a con recently. The game I was going to play wasn't going to happen for lack of players, so I got pulled into a DCC game with Harley Stroh.
I'm not entirely sure what's really cool about DCC, having played it. You have stats, you have skills, you roll the d20 plus your skill and see what happens, which I've been doing since 3rd edition. I did rather like it when the wizard-guy put someone to sleep forever, but I wasn't playing a wizard, and the wizard was immediately killed, so although it was cool, it wasn't a ton of fun, really. The idea of the adventure was amusing and fun, sure, but that didn't depend on DCC, it was just a fun fantasy adventure. And being disemboweled by a teammate because I rolled a 1 on initiative was really lame.
So, I'm willing to try DCC again... but between that and 5th edition, I'm much more interested in playing 5th.
Suddenly and unexpectedly super jealous! That kind of sounds like the best con session ever. Did each player start with multiple characters?
VS
Quote from: jcfiala;785563I tried DCC at a con recently. The game I was going to play wasn't going to happen for lack of players, so I got pulled into a DCC game with Harley Stroh.
I'm not entirely sure what's really cool about DCC, having played it. You have stats, you have skills, you roll the d20 plus your skill and see what happens, which I've been doing since 3rd edition. I did rather like it when the wizard-guy put someone to sleep forever, but I wasn't playing a wizard, and the wizard was immediately killed, so although it was cool, it wasn't a ton of fun, really. The idea of the adventure was amusing and fun, sure, but that didn't depend on DCC, it was just a fun fantasy adventure. And being disemboweled by a teammate because I rolled a 1 on initiative was really lame.
So, I'm willing to try DCC again... but between that and 5th edition, I'm much more interested in playing 5th.
Yeah, I just have Warhammer for that, thanks.
Quote from: VengerSatanis;785599Suddenly and unexpectedly super jealous! That kind of sounds like the best con session ever. Did each player start with multiple characters?
VS
No, they didn't. Everyone started with 3rd level characters. I'd heard of this player funnel thing, and was curious to try it, but no.
Quote from: Simlasa;785560Is that what hipsters are about? Around here they seem to only go to what's new and trendy and overpriced.
I guess it does come off as pretentious... I just don't like corporate crap.
Dude, commercial success and popularity are anathema to hipsters. The whole points of hipsterism is to display a discernment for authenticity and quality (filtered through a lens of ironic nostalgia) that the average schmuck mindlessly following popular culture cannot grasp. You think you're cool with your MacBook labtop? Well the true hipster uses a manual typewriter. Like that catchy folk band Mumford and Sons? The hipsters liked them before they were popular, and hate them now. You ride a $1,400 urban cruiser bike? The hipster refurbishes vintage bicycles. Enjoy expensive whiskey? The hipster drinks cheap blue-collar beer brands and cut-rate bourbon because of the aura of authenticity (and irony) they evoke.
If hipsters ever take an interest in RPGs, they'll play first edition Traveler and Paladium Fantasy.
So yeah, you might be a hipster.
Quote from: Haffrung;785656Dude, commercial success and popularity are anathema to hipsters. The whole points of hipsterism is to display a discernment for authenticity and quality (filtered through a lens of ironic nostalgia) that the average schmuck mindlessly following popular culture cannot grasp.
Kind of like people who prefer the more subtle, challenging ways of old-school D&D instead of the corporate pap churned out by WotC? ;)
(No, I don't think the OSR is a bunch of hipsters. I think it's a bunch of people who like what they like and would do so regardless of popularity, but who sometimes drift into hipsteresque rhetoric when trying to either defend themselves or establish some perceived superiority over modern D&D. The way 'nostalgia' has become a poisoned term on either side of the debate probably contributes some to this.)
Quote from: Haffrung;785656So yeah, you might be a hipster.
OK, I like classic Traveller... so either I liked Classic Traveller to begin with, waybackwhen... and it's still my preferred version, in which case I'm a 'Grognard'.
OR
I just discovered Classic Traveller and I like it... in which case I'm a 'hipster'.
Quote from: RabidWookie;785335Which one would you prefer to run or play right now and why? It seems like DCC is in some ways more crunchy and in others almost free form compared to 5e.
i am currently judging a DCC campaign based on PF kingmaker AP (loosely) and set in gray boxish forgotten realms (phlan, moonsea and northern parts). it has lasted for almost year and the half with almost regular, weekly, sessions. this is of course entirely anecdotal but can give you some insight into the fact that dcc is not really only for one shots but has robustness to sustain longer campaigns.
as far as the dcc gonzo volume is concerned i must say that it is a matter of fine tunning. you certainly could judge dcc in a vein similar to the rpgpundit's dcc games but it can also, and does, cover more regular appendix N inspired adventures without a glitch. it is just incapable of being boring. you can also make it more serious, if you want that, pretty simply by trimming down magical misfires and mercurial magic and maybe also toying a little with fumbles. i have a feeling (https://plus.google.com/105673193450594395171/posts/1dVfKfqc4cV) that harley stroh (one of DCC authors) is thinking about that for his punjar (fantasy city a la lankhmar) games.
you could also check out this actual play report from jason lutes (http://lampblackandbrimstone.blogspot.com/2013/04/halls-of-minotaur-session-1-part-1.html) that reads more like navigator: the medieval odyssey (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095709/) and less like dark ages paranoia.
one thing that you should be considering is that DCC is more of a gambling and less of a resource management game. you have to trust dice and to believe in their 'oracular' properties to fully enjoy it. results can be a little swingy with spellcasting, critical and mighty deeds but i suppose that it is part of a beauty of DCC.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;785659(No, I don't think the OSR is a bunch of hipsters. I think it's a bunch of people who like what they like and would do so regardless of popularity, but who sometimes drift into hipsteresque rhetoric when trying to either defend themselves or establish some perceived superiority over modern D&D. The way 'nostalgia' has become a poisoned term on either side of the debate probably contributes some to this.)
I dunno, I think we kind of are a little bit. :)
Quote from: LibraryLass;785727I dunno, I think we kind of are a little bit. :)
Could be. As someone who is quite vocally
not part of the OSR, I didn't want to make the claim. :)
I've been running a DCC campaign for well over a year now, so that puts the lie to the idea that it's not good for long-term play.
In any case, I think a world needs to reflect the system it's run in. BECMI/RC D&D, for example, can be run in any number of worlds, but it's particularly good in Mystara because that setting was set up as if assuming that some of the rule peculiarities of the system were just part of the "physics" of the setting.
A good DCC setting needs to be one where wizards are often crazy and not usually stable enough to be a major collective force in the world (so for example, a kingdom like Alphatia, from the aforementioned Mystara, would not sit well with DCC rules). It needs to be one where the gods are DEFINITELY "crazy" (or at least have motives impossible to comprehend by mortals) and their clerics are all beleaguered Drama queens or fanatics who are constantly faced with seemingly random expressions of disapproval from their deities.
For me, I disagree with Zak's earlier suggestion; I'm a pretty black and white type of guy, so when I run DCC I want it to be more gonzo than gonzo, hence my "last sun" setting which is by far the most over-the-top gonzo setting I've ever run. It's like a cross between Adventure Time, South Park, Thundarr, Metamorposis Alpha, and all the weirdest weirdness of super-old-school Sword & Sorcery (or Sword & Planet) gaming.
As for 5e; I think we don't totally know what works best for it just yet; we probably won't for at least a few months yet (I think, at the very least, until the DMG comes out and we've had some time to assimilate all the details and possibilities).
So to respond to the OP, I don't think it's a "Vs." situation; I'm running DCC right now, and I plan to run 5e sometime in the future. I already know the type of setting I plan to run with it; which won't be strictly conventional tolkien-esque fantasy by any means, but it certainly won't be the zaniness of what I'm doing with DCC right now.
Quote from: jcfiala;785563The idea of the adventure was amusing and fun, sure, but that didn't depend on DCC, it was just a fun fantasy adventure.
Little necro on an older thread...
I love the DCC RPG but at the moment my local game store only supports 5E. I've been running a 5E campaign at the store since September but I have several GMs at my table who have seen the modules since they also run the game at the store. The above quote got me thinking.
Everyone talks about taking their campaign of choice and converting to DCC RPG, but what about the other way around? The adventures published for the DCC ROG tend to be fresh and innovative (I'm not looking at the older d20 adventures, but only the ones specifically for the DCC RPG) and it would seem that I could run a party of 5E characters through them with minimal tweaking.
The main issue, of course, would be monster conversion since DCC RPG adventures tend to feature unique creatures which aren't in the monster manual. (That's a cool feature of the modules, but makes conversion harder.)
Here's a monster taken from a DCC RPG module:
Vine Horrors (2): Init +2; Atk vine +2 melee (1d4); AC 13; HD 2d10; hp 10 each; MV 20'; Act 2d20; SP entangle (automatic 1d6 damage on next round if both vine attacks land; DC 15 Str check to escape); SV Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +2; AL C.
I know that a monster out of context is hard to judge, but....
* It seems like initiative requires no conversion.
* The attack bonus seems okay, perhaps double the damage.
* The AC is probably fine.
* The hit dice / hit points seem low; perhaps double them.
* The DC Str check to escape seems appropriate.
* The saving throws could be ignored and replaced with 5E saves.
Bottom line is that to me it would appear that 5E bulks up the hit points and the damage, so one could be pretty close to a 5E scale by simply taking most things as-is but doubling HD and damage from the module.
What say you? Anyone used a DCC RPG module in their 5E game?
Never used a DCC module in 5e D&D yet. That said, I'd do almost like you and retain just about everything. However I would raise Atk instead of Dmg, as 5e presumes more hitting all around.
So doubling the HP is fine, but with the Special Power for auto-strangle 1d6 next round if both vines hit... 2d4+auto1d6 will wipe most 1st through 3rd levels without adequate party cooperation. Given that "Vine Horror (2)" likely reads 2x Vine Horrors, and presuming they get two melee vine attacks a round, that can be a lethal encounter. Keeping the damage low, but the hit rate high is enough and sticks closer to the 5e "hit often, bloat HP" paradigm.
Things I would add:
- Immunities, weaknesses, & resistances. For me, as plants, I would play that up.
Immune: Bludgeon, Psychic, Thunder. (no dmg)
Resist: Lightning, Pierce, Poison. (half dmg)
Weak: Cold, Fire, Necrotic. (double dmg)
- Stealth adv in plant heavy terrain. surprise alone would up the lethality of these creatures, instead of more damage.
- Languages. never know, they may wanna negotiate. not so DCC, but still.
- Speed. I'd add Climb equal to its walking Spd.
- Senses. Blindsight (short) & Tremorsight (longer)
Very Night of the Triffids now, if you ask me.
on somewhat unrelated note goodman games just has announced lankhmar boxed set and line of products for dcc.
Quote from: Haffrung;785656Dude, commercial success and popularity are anathema to hipsters. The whole points of hipsterism is to display a discernment for authenticity and quality (filtered through a lens of ironic nostalgia) that the average schmuck mindlessly following popular culture cannot grasp. You think you're cool with your MacBook labtop? Well the true hipster uses a manual typewriter. Like that catchy folk band Mumford and Sons? The hipsters liked them before they were popular, and hate them now. You ride a $1,400 urban cruiser bike? The hipster refurbishes vintage bicycles. Enjoy expensive whiskey? The hipster drinks cheap blue-collar beer brands and cut-rate bourbon because of the aura of authenticity (and irony) they evoke.
If hipsters ever take an interest in RPGs, they'll play first edition Traveler and Paladium Fantasy.
So yeah, you might be a hipster.
I used to be a college town Proto-Hipster. I remember when PBR went from returnable thick walled glass bottles with a dongle paper ribbon (the original breweries were all shut down) to Miller contract brewed brand only swill beer that was much worse than when it was real PBR.
Cut to 15 years later where I had a China PBR (while riding a hydrofoil from Hong Kong to Macao) that was brewed to original PBR spec on original PBR equipment (PBR launched in China in the 80's or early 90's). It was a blast from the past! Yes, hipsters, know that China PBR is more authentic and much better tasting than USA PBR. Take a trip to commie China for a time warp (a bit tough to do on barista wages though).
Anyhow, DCC Lankhmar sounds great!
Quote from: Haffrung;785656Dude, commercial success and popularity are anathema to hipsters. The whole points of hipsterism is to display a discernment for authenticity and quality (filtered through a lens of ironic nostalgia) that the average schmuck mindlessly following popular culture cannot grasp. You think you're cool with your MacBook labtop? Well the true hipster uses a manual typewriter. Like that catchy folk band Mumford and Sons? The hipsters liked them before they were popular, and hate them now. You ride a $1,400 urban cruiser bike? The hipster refurbishes vintage bicycles. Enjoy expensive whiskey? The hipster drinks cheap blue-collar beer brands and cut-rate bourbon because of the aura of authenticity (and irony) they evoke.
If hipsters ever take an interest in RPGs, they'll play first edition Traveller and Paladium Fantasy.
So yeah, you might be a hipster.
You act like playing first edition Traveller is a bad thing....
Quote from: ostap bender;822793on somewhat unrelated note goodman games just has announced lankhmar boxed set and line of products for dcc.
Not so much unrelated, actually. This announcement was the impetus that got me thinking about running DCC modules in my in-store 5E game.
Quote from: Haffrung;785656So yeah, you might be a hipster.
The litmus test seems to be whether one listens to and likes Neutral Milk Hotel.
Quote from: Haffrung;785656If hipsters ever take an interest in RPGs, they'll play first edition Traveler and Paladium Fantasy.
Dude, that's the Palladium Role-Playing Game First Edition Revised!!!!! (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=24681)
:)
Quote from: finarvyn;822656Bottom line is that to me it would appear that 5E bulks up the hit points and the damage, so one could be pretty close to a 5E scale by simply taking most things as-is but doubling HD and damage from the module.
Dunno about DCC specifically, but I noticed that with pre-3e D&D it looked as if conversion to 5e would mean basically X2 hp and roughly x2 damage, as you say - eg a 5 hp orc doing 1d6 damage should become a 10 hp orc doing 1d6+3 or 1d8+3 damage to keep the threat level consistent.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;822853The litmus test seems to be whether one listens to and likes Neutral Milk Hotel.
Love them! I first heard them them when they played in my friend's basement... it was damn near a religious experience.
Still, I'm not seeing what's 'hipster' about them.
If I hadn't got 5E, which I'm very happy about, DCC does look very interesting.
The requirement for d5 (ok you can do this with a d10), d7, d14, d16, d24 and a d30 is a big turn off though.
Ultimately though, I'll stick with 5E, it fits the bill for me and it's just fun to run and play.
Actually, I ran 5E at an RPG convention the weekend just passed.
A couple of the players came to the game having read (by their perception) a lot of negative press on RPG forums about 5E.
By the end of the session, they loved 5E and were were very impressed with it.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;822853The litmus test seems to be whether one listens to and likes Neutral Milk Hotel.
Seriously? Fucking hipsters! I was into the Neutral Milk Hotel before any of them got around to thinking it was cool.
Quote from: Haffrung;785656If hipsters ever take an interest in RPGs, they'll play first edition Traveler and Paladium Fantasy.
That would make me inordinately happy. But it's never gonna happen. Except maybe ironically, because hipsters (for the most part) suck.
Quote from: finarvyn;822837Not so much unrelated, actually. This announcement was the impetus that got me thinking about running DCC modules in my in-store 5E game.
i think that you should try to get them to play dcc :D
for me 5e vs dcc is no brainer. 5e is ok but i love dcc.
"one thing that you should be considering is that DCC is more of a gambling and less of a resource management game. you have to trust dice and to believe in their 'oracular' properties to fully enjoy it." -someoneupthread
This is a really good distinction between DCC and older D&D. I was about to agree with this, but then as I think about it I realize that V is actually pretty light on resource management. I like the idea of resource management, but it doesn't seem to jive with my casual players and short session. I played/dmed DCC for awhile before V came out. I loved it, though I got tired of funnels quick. I've made a "Warrior" class for V and use DCC spell tables for Magic Scroll effects. And, of course, I use the modules.
Quote from: Durn;823633"one thing that you should be considering is that DCC is more of a gambling and less of a resource management game. you have to trust dice and to believe in their 'oracular' properties to fully enjoy it." -someoneupthread
This is a really good distinction between DCC and older D&D. I was about to agree with this, but then as I think about it I realize that V is actually pretty light on resource management. I like the idea of resource management, but it doesn't seem to jive with my casual players and short session. I played/dmed DCC for awhile before V came out. I loved it, though I got tired of funnels quick. I've made a "Warrior" class for V and use DCC spell tables for Magic Scroll effects. And, of course, I use the modules.
i said that and still think it is true. v is a less resource management game than pathfinder (for example) but still is more than dcc. d&d is a resource management game and dcc takes a step in different direction.
for example, in v i played a monk and had to allocate ki points in order to get shit done. i give ki and something happens. in dcc i played thief and used luck to bet that something might happen. more luck i burn it is more likely that something will happen.
I agree. Especially about how DCC is most fun when you embrace the mystic vagaries of the dice.
For me, V with some Classic modules and bits and pieces is perfect. Its a gold mine, but I doubt I'll run straight DCC again. I'll play it any time of course.
I have read this thread with interest and this made me curious about DCC. I have bought the book and it is huge ! I have only read a few pages but it looks like the bastard child of D&D and Warhammer ! I think that I will enjoy it !
I sold off my DCC after getting 5e.
Both games do different specific things well out of the box, but I'll suggest that I can run some very weird D&D 5E (and even use DCC modules with conversion) with less effort than it would take me to, say, add in tieflings of eldritch knights or something to DCC. But this is a minor quibble; I could do either if I really wanted to (but I do dislike race-as-class).
Really though for me its just a "not enough time" problem and in the end D&D 5E is a flavor and edition I can get my players behind, while DCC waits for that break period between regular campaigns when I feel like I have the requisite energy necessary to introduce my players to something that's a bit outside their comfort zone. In the meantime, I read and enjoy DCC and pilfer it for ideas in my 5E games.
(EDIT: I think DCC is great because of its deliberate dive into 70's era fantasy weirdness, albeit more the "LP cover album" era of fantasy than anything genuinely Appendix N.....but if you've been playing stuff that way all along for these decades it's a harder sell that you really need a game to do that for you when you're already doing it with whatever D&D is floating around anyway. Still, DCC has a great aesthetic and design, and is really well written, so its hard not to want to play it).
I've played DCC, I'd love to run it but people in my group dislike randomness to a point of refusing.
I have played 5e. I think 5e feels like the D&D I remember from BECMI when I was 16.
DCC feels like Stormbringer and T&T and weird turned to 11, I love it.
But whether I'll ever get to play it outside a con one off, not sure.
I have started my reading of DCC and i feel a little overwhelmed by the numerous tables and the way the magic system works. A strange but kind 8 magic ball had adviced me to get with it or be done with DCC. So it will try to embrace the weirdness of the randomness and the multiple dice throws !
Quote from: yabaziou;825175I have started my reading of DCC and i feel a little overwhelmed by the numerous tables and the way the magic system works.
It's actually not so bad when you have the PDF and always keep a dossier of relevant tables for your character at hand for quick finding. Neither my cleric nor the wizard had much trouble with it.
Fighter, Dwarf, Halfling and Thief in the group have the issue neither. They don't have much tablechecking but fumbles and crits anyway.
Our GM always has the PDF open in the background with spell bookmarks extended. Not much issues on his side either.
While neither would be my first choice for a D&D game, I think I'd go with DCC. I'm not super-familiar with either system, but DCC seems like it would be more fun.
Quote from: Skyrock;825209It's actually not so bad when you have the PDF and always keep a dossier of relevant tables for your character at hand for quick finding. Neither my cleric nor the wizard had much trouble with it.
Fighter, Dwarf, Halfling and Thief in the group have the issue neither. They don't have much tablechecking but fumbles and crits anyway.
Our GM always has the PDF open in the background with spell bookmarks extended. Not much issues on his side either.
That is actually a sound and nice piece of advice ! Thanks for giving it to me !
Quote from: yabaziou;824861I have read this thread with interest and this made me curious about DCC. I have bought the book and it is huge ! I have only read a few pages but it looks like the bastard child of D&D and Warhammer ! I think that I will enjoy it !
I'm sure you will! At least, if you're my kind of person.
Quote from: yabaziou;825311That is actually a sound and nice piece of advice ! Thanks for giving it to me !
An even better advice, get the free "Crawler Companion" app from Purple Sorcerer. It is absolutely awesome, and will make things like figuring out spells as simple as pressing a button (or is that tapping a screen, these days?).
Quote from: RPGPundit;825813An even better advice, get the free "Crawler Companion" app from Purple Sorcerer. It is absolutely awesome, and will make things like figuring out spells as simple as pressing a button (or is that tapping a screen, these days?).
That is actual the best advice ! This app is godsend (I might be in hyberpole mode) ! The persons who made are very kind and sensible. I should probably read more of yours threads about this game, Pundit. I have read it a little more and I like the things I see and the vibes I get from it.
Quote from: yabaziou;825839That is actual the best advice ! This app is godsend (I might be in hyberpole mode) ! The persons who made are very kind and sensible. I should probably read more of yours threads about this game, Pundit. I have read it a little more and I like the things I see and the vibes I get from it.
Yes indeed!