I've noticed people speak highly of DCC, which seems to be the crown jewel of OSR games. Being a quasi-grognard, I am of course familiar with the DCC line from back in the OGL era, but never checked out the RPG. I just downloaded the quick start rules and will browse through that, but I'm wondering about play experience.
Specifically, what edition of D&D does it play most similarly to? Specifically, how does it compare to 5E? How would you summarize DCC in a sentence or two? Etc.
Quote from: Mercurius;1140257I've noticed people speak highly of DCC, which seems to be the crown jewel of OSR games. Being a quasi-grognard, I am of course familiar with the DCC line from back in the OGL era, but never checked out the RPG. I just downloaded the quick start rules and will browse through that, but I'm wondering about play experience.
Specifically, what edition of D&D does it play most similarly to? Specifically, how does it compare to 5E? How would you summarize DCC in a sentence or two? Etc.
DCC draws inspiration from all editions, but I'd say it plays closest to Basic. What with race as class, and it's simplified systems.
I'd summarize DCC with the sentence "Your character will be changed in the course of the game." I don't mean gaining levels and xp and loot, although that is part of the game. But there's a great illustration in the core rulebook that hits this idea home for me.
*I can't find it online* It's a guy, maybe a dwarf, with a hook for a hand. When I saw that illustration, I wondered what happened to his hand. And that's DCC. Characters have scars and wounds and if they're a spell caster, even stranger things as mementos of their adventures. The life of an adventurer is strange and wonderful and terrifying.
Note that beginning characters are as mundane as possible, gong farmers, tailors, etc. The go through the infamous "funnel" and IF they even survive, they choose a class. The first change of many.
Characters gain and lose Luck, and if I were to GM DCC today, I'd lean very heavily into the idea that the Luck stat should change during an adventure. If the characters aren't spending Luck, the GM is going too easy on them.
Spellcasters go even further with spellburn and magical mutations. Another of my favorite pics from the game.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FP7ISvDzd5c/U4hdz8-i07I/AAAAAAAAEA4/lO1_ChpOnjE/s1600/wizard+evolution.png)
Unfortunatley, my DCC campaign didn't last long. But we did do the funnel and played a few adventures after that. It's dead simple to re-use old D&D modules, and I used some of the Saltmarsh stuff, sprinkled into official DCC modules, and a few adventureres of my own. (My favorite was a crashed flying saucer with HG Wells inspired "martians". The players charmed one to fight for them... was pretty hilarious)
DCC is about the unknown, and sticking your hand in the mouth of the Green Devil Face to see what happens. Hmm. I wonder if that's how the dwarf guy lost his hand...
It takes the roots of Basic, goes full on into the realm of gonzo heavy metal guitar wielding barbarians riding dragons, then tosses in some interesting mechanics for fighters, rogues and spellcasters. The mechanics seem like they'd work well with the gonzo vibe. Fighters shoulder charging a demon through portals, while the halfling acts like a luck charm next to your wizard who's frozen in time dueling an enemy sorcerer with arcane spells.
Doesn't seem to be a game with a ton of character options and choices where you can play for years and never be the same character twice. But it seems like a really fun system to use now and then when you just want to have some easy, over the top fun.
Sounds terrific. I'd love to hybridize it with 5E, to provide a wider range of options. I'd have to read the rules more thoroughly to decide whether I'd want 5E core with DCC embellishments and flavor (love the funnel idea, harkens back to zero-level characters from Greyhawk Adventures), or take DCC and add 5E options. Sounds like it would be easier to do the former.
I love the funnel concept. It's the best part of the game in my experience. RPGPundit has run a lengthy DCC campaign so hopefully he'll drop in with some input on how DCC does over many sessions.
Quote from: Mercurius;1140257I've noticed people speak highly of DCC, which seems to be the crown jewel of OSR games. Being a quasi-grognard, I am of course familiar with the DCC line from back in the OGL era, but never checked out the RPG. I just downloaded the quick start rules and will browse through that, but I'm wondering about play experience.
Specifically, what edition of D&D does it play most similarly to? Specifically, how does it compare to 5E? How would you summarize DCC in a sentence or two? Etc.
DCC is a love letter to the spirit of 1E AD&D.
DCC is not a clone of any edition of D&D.
Magic is dangerous. There is a great chance that your arcane magic user will come to a horrible end.
Character death is possible for all classes.
Your character is not a super hero.
Level 10 characters are a big deal.
Just 1 book, for a complete game.
I've played in a few DCC campaigns and each had a very different flavor.
It doesn't seem to me that it has fewer PC options than 5e, it's just that they're not codefied... like, the warrior's 'Mighty Deeds' cover the concept of Feats without the need for long lists of descriptions.
It's not a game that supports the 'build' mentality. DCC's mantra is 'quest for it', so any particular character tweak is a possible source of adventure.
What with Patrons, Mercurial Magic and Spellburn (and the dreaded corruption!), no two spell casters look alike... and the same goes for Clerics, since their gods tend to take a much more active role than in any regular D&D game I've played.
The funnel is great, there are dozens of them out there. Adventuring beyond 6th level starts to be a challenge for the Judge as the magic system is so overpowered that a 4th or 5th level wizard is a demigod and the other classes don't keep up as well after 3rd level sadly. Fun at first though, I have run DCC dozens of times.
I've browsed the book and played in one game. My (admittedly limited) experience gives me the impression that it's a flawed gem, but your assessment may differ if so do your needs and expectations.
In general, it strikes me as an OSR game which includes a lot of interesting ideas, but sacrifices simplicity for those. For example, the idea that magic users can draw their power from different sources, and that spellcasting can have side effects and you're not sure how powerful the spell is going to be until you cast it is cool in theory and the results can certainly be fun... but it means you have to make an extra roll and then look up the result in one of several tables every time you cast a spell. Remember how in 1st ed. AD&D you made an attack roll and then had to find the appropriate table (with tables spread over several pages) to cross-index your roll with your level and the target's AC? Well, it's a bit like that, only for wizards. And for me that's a negative, because I didn't like the attack tables, either.
As for the much-vaunted "character funnel", that's like Trump's presidency: a publicity stunt that too many people took seriously, got out of hand and became a much bigger thing than it ever should have been. The idea that "finally, your characters start out REALLY FRAGILE and can DIE BY THE DROVES because IT'S SO OLD-SCHOOL" doesn't hold water, because actual old-school D&D already has REALLY FRAGILE characters potentially DYING BY THE DROVES. It's called "being first-level." The "let's make them ZERO level so they're EVEN MORE REALLY FRAGILE" thing is the die-rolling equivalent of walking 10 miles to school and back in waist-high snow very day, uphill both ways. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k)
Now, I'm not saying DCC is not good. It has very interesting ideas, it just pays a price for those ideas that I personally value higher - at least in a product which is supposed to be old-school and simple.
Imagine if all arcane magic users were wild magic sorcerers, ala 5E; but with the potential for even more chaotic results. Welcome to DCC!!!
I know there are some groups that just play funnels... but I haven't run into them. The DCC groups I've been in have either started with a funnel and moved on or they skipped it and started at higher level, usually for a one-off.
The highest lvl character I've had got to 5th, and I was intending to retire her because she was getting too powerful for my taste (she was higher lvl than any other PC in the group too)... but luckily she got killed before it came to that.
I think it reads as being a lot more complicated than it is in play... and with the addition of The Crawler's Companion software it can run even faster.
Even if you don't run DCC itself, it is chocked full of flavorful inspiration for your other fantasy genre RPGs. It's so dang different, yet it looks and feels like dangerous D&D.
Quote from: Mercurius;1140257I've noticed people speak highly of DCC
It's a fun game and I recommend it. It's especially worth playing a funnel as a one-shot; for a longer campaign I think it'd best to do most of the heavy lifting coming up with adventures, despite their published catalog (which are almost all railroads).
Quote from: Mercurius;1140257which seems to be the crown jewel of OSR games.
Wut?
Every single retro-clone of any variety is a better OSR game than DCC. DCC lacks xp for gold. It's got a low-granularity xp table that's almost to the point of milestone/level up when the GM says so. Unless I missed them it lacks rules for wandering monsters and dungeon exploration. The published adventures being outrageous railroads are opposite of the OSR best practice of jacquayed dungeons with player choice. And mechanical compatibility with the great majority of published OSR adventures and settings is low.
Quote from: Mercurius;1140257Specifically, what edition of D&D does it play most similarly to?
It feels to me like a spiritual descendant of AD&D. The funky classes, each with it's own shtick, the patrons and spell charts, that all feels like a road not taken, if AD&D had embraced metal instead of sanitizing in the face of the satanic panic.
Mechanically it's probably more like Hackmaster or Rolemaster. Really its it's own thing though, I wouldn't put it too close to any one edition of D&D. That it's built off the 3.5 OGL is an accident of history and legality that doesn't actually make it similar.
Quote from: Dave R;1140560It's a fun game and I recommend it. It's especially worth playing a funnel as a one-shot; for a longer campaign I think it'd best to do most of the heavy lifting coming up with adventures, despite their published catalog (which are almost all railroads).
Is an adventure automatically a 'railroad' just because a dungeon layout is linear?
Not that all DCC dungeons are linear either.
There is Even an included adventure or two in the book that already contains a complete RPG. It's a massive toolbox, and not very expensive for a hardback either.
Quote from: Simlasa;1140599Is an adventure automatically a 'railroad' just because a dungeon layout is linear?
I didn't say anything about linear dungeon layouts. Which shows you know it's an issue. But since you mention it, a couple were literal straight lines when mapped by the players. I mean there'd be corners and stairs, but as a node map you quite literally advance from one to another with no choices whatsoever. Back or forward. And sometimes back isn't even an option because you're locked in or on a do-or-die mission. So yes, that is both linear and a railroad.
Quote from: Simlasa;1140599Not that all DCC dungeons are linear either.
Give me some titles then, I'd love to check them out. I played 4-5 published ones and flipped through a few more after that campaign ended, so I don't claim to have checked literally everything they've published. But everyone else I've heard from says my experience was typical.
And again - I like DCC the game. It's a good base for a longer campaign for a GM willing to do the heavy lifting on adventures and encounters. It's just the adventure catalog being heavy on railroads is a weird thing to have for an OSR-adjacent game.
Quote from: Dave R;1140560The published adventures being outrageous railroads are opposite of the OSR best practice of jacquayed dungeons with player choice.
That's the bit I was responding too. It seems to conflate 'railroads' with linear dungeons (which are sortakinda the opposite of 'jacquayed').
A lot of DCC dungeons are pretty linear, but they're also generally quite small compared to stuff like Caverns Of Thracia.
To me, a railroad is an adventure with a story that cannot be altered/avoided... such as those long multi-book Pathfinder things. Going into a cave with a single entrance doesn't add up to the same, IMO.
Check out DCC#95 Enter The Dagon for a not-railroad (maybe depending on your concept of railroad)... but without a 'dungeon' as they're usually defined.
I'll have a look for more (I played a bunch of them without knowing the specific names).
Quote from: Razor 007;1140606There is Even an included adventure or two in the book that already contains a complete RPG. It's a massive toolbox, and not very expensive for a hardback either.
I think if I ever get to run DCC at the table I'm going to need to buy the PDF too. The single softcover is massive and relatively cheap. However, that also means that there will be a lot of page flipping during play, which will be even worse if I use the starter adventure. All those charts. Even with the extra copies at the back, it's a lot of flipping.
Strangely enough, I can see DCC working better as a forum game than in person, at least if one is running with only one book. Then the mechanics being largely in the hand of the GM becomes a virtue.
You've got to print/copy the charts as soon as players have level 1 characters. Each player should have every chart their character uses. It's not a small difference in speed and overall experience.
Quote from: Premier;1140352I've browsed the book and played in one game. My (admittedly limited) experience gives me the impression that it's a flawed gem, but your assessment may differ if so do your needs and expectations.
In general, it strikes me as an OSR game which includes a lot of interesting ideas, but sacrifices simplicity for those. For example, the idea that magic users can draw their power from different sources, and that spellcasting can have side effects and you're not sure how powerful the spell is going to be until you cast it is cool in theory and the results can certainly be fun... but it means you have to make an extra roll and then look up the result in one of several tables every time you cast a spell. Remember how in 1st ed. AD&D you made an attack roll and then had to find the appropriate table (with tables spread over several pages) to cross-index your roll with your level and the target's AC? Well, it's a bit like that, only for wizards. And for me that's a negative, because I didn't like the attack tables, either.
As for the much-vaunted "character funnel", that's like Trump's presidency: a publicity stunt that too many people took seriously, got out of hand and became a much bigger thing than it ever should have been. The idea that "finally, your characters start out REALLY FRAGILE and can DIE BY THE DROVES because IT'S SO OLD-SCHOOL" doesn't hold water, because actual old-school D&D already has REALLY FRAGILE characters potentially DYING BY THE DROVES. It's called "being first-level." The "let's make them ZERO level so they're EVEN MORE REALLY FRAGILE" thing is the die-rolling equivalent of walking 10 miles to school and back in waist-high snow very day, uphill both ways. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHFZBUTA4k)
Now, I'm not saying DCC is not good. It has very interesting ideas, it just pays a price for those ideas that I personally value higher - at least in a product which is supposed to be old-school and simple.
DCC is one of my fave RPGs of all-time, not only OSR games, but overall RPGs. The table are easily accessible and well organized. If you print them and have them at the table, like I did, it moves very quickly and easily and the results are freaking awesome. There is even a free app you can get from Purple Sorceror Games (https://purplesorcerer.com/ (https://purplesorcerer.com/)) for your cell phone or you can use online at their site on a tablet or laptop during the game that automates it all for you and give you results in an instant.
The same site also includes the following tools for DCC GMs:
0-Level Party Generator
Mutant Crawl Classics 0-Level Party Generator
Upper Level Character Generator
The Crawler's Companion
The Sorcerer's Grimoire
Demon Generator
Dragon Generator
Mercurial Magic Generator
Scroll Generator
Sword Magic Generator
Unique Monster Trait Generator
They also make adventures for the game as well.
So here are my thoughts- Years ago I posted this on another forum after soliciting input about DCC RPG and running the Game for my Kids Group (13-14yos at the time) This was in 2013 and first sessions report- Ran a mixup of N5 set in The Wilderlands along with "Portal" from the core book.
Quote from: jeffBreally enjoyed the "same but different" play of the game. The interesting bits that have become humdrum...healing, basic spells, are much fun and the new stunt type system...deeds... seemed to go over well. My son got really creative, which was nice to see. I felt like the system, despite the added crunchy bits played pretty smoothly ( I spent alot of time printing up tables and spells for quick reference and converted my 4e screen). It was not quite as smooth or easy as running ODD/SW, but I made a point to play up the excitement of crits and fumbles and spell rolls, which made for more "hurry up..what happens????" Comments rather than " this takes too much time to figure out" comments I get sometimes with modern D&Ds.
"feel" of the session certainly leaned towards old school/od&d, rather than "3e lite which was my fear.
2016- 3 years later my thread came up again...
Quote from: JeffBI see this thread came back up.
Ultimately, DCCRPG was too fiddly and too random for the group. The kids are notorious bad dice rollers and they quickly found the game not fun with crits, wasted spells, fumbles ,etc. They just got plastered all the time. In addition, the chart lookups were tedious after a few sessions, despite having printed out copies.
I do think there are some solid mechanics to steal though- e.g. clerics healing and fighter stunts are things I incorporated into my BXOD&D/S&W mashup.
I also find it very inspirational in the "fluff/flavor" sense, and still keep it around for just that reason.
Some bits I would add for 2020
I personally don't like Funnels at all except as a separate one time session. Didn't like them initially either
Not terribly enamored of the DCC community- a bit clique-ish.
I still have a copy, but It's been in storage for a couple years. I think DCC RPG has some solid fun mechanics , but I think the DCC team/community try too hard to be edgy/gonzo, and it got old, quick. Some good adventure material buried under alot of "it's OK".
I agree that the fanbase for DCC can be... I wouldn't say 'clique-ish', but 'over zealous' maybe? Not in the usual 'Game X is the game to end all games and can do EVERYTHING!!!', but in that they embrace making it a 'lifestyle'. Goodman puts out soooo much bling for the game... and the whole thing with alternate covers, alternate foil covers... it's giving me flashbacks to crazy comic book excesses in the 90s.
I'm a big fan of the game, but like with lots of things, I don't want 'those people' representing my interests.
Quote from: Simlasa;1141438I agree that the fanbase for DCC can be... I wouldn't say 'clique-ish', but 'over zealous' maybe? Not in the usual 'Game X is the game to end all games and can do EVERYTHING!!!', but in that they embrace making it a 'lifestyle'. Goodman puts out soooo much bling for the game... and the whole thing with alternate covers, alternate foil covers... it's giving me flashbacks to crazy comic book excesses in the 90s.
I'm a big fan of the game, but like with lots of things, I don't want 'those people' representing my interests.
There is a certain atmosphere around DCC, because it frankly has unique content and lore that aren't found in other games. I can see where people who only play DCC and talk about it a lot, could come across as being "too much" to others who don't.
Quote from: Simlasa;1141438I agree that the fanbase for DCC can be... I wouldn't say 'clique-ish', but 'over zealous' maybe? Not in the usual 'Game X is the game to end all games and can do EVERYTHING!!!', but in that they embrace making it a 'lifestyle'. Goodman puts out soooo much bling for the game... and the whole thing with alternate covers, alternate foil covers...
Yes, perhaps that is more like what I perceive...A Cult... Instead of Clique ;)
Quote from: Simlasa;1141438I agree that the fanbase for DCC can be... I wouldn't say 'clique-ish', but 'over zealous' maybe? Not in the usual 'Game X is the game to end all games and can do EVERYTHING!!!', but in that they embrace making it a 'lifestyle'. Goodman puts out soooo much bling for the game... and the whole thing with alternate covers, alternate foil covers... it's giving me flashbacks to crazy comic book excesses in the 90s.
I'm a big fan of the game, but like with lots of things, I don't want 'those people' representing my interests.
Exactly this. In time I found I was just collecting DCC stuff after a couple of years of being part of the Road Crew. It is a cult now and I think I fell out of it. Hopefully I won't be hunted down and pelted with even more funny shaped dice than I normally need for a game.
Quote from: bat;1141756Exactly this. In time I found I was just collecting DCC stuff after a couple of years of being part of the Road Crew. It is a cult now and I think I fell out of it. Hopefully I won't be hunted down and pelted with even more funny shaped dice than I normally need for a game.
"More funny shaped dice..." was a turnoff to me at first. I didn't like it that the handfuls and handfuls of D&D polyhedrals I owned weren't enough to play the game. I resisted purchasing a set of the DCC dice; but once I did, within a few weeks I went ahead and purchased a second set. After that; with 1 book and 2 sets of the dice, I had enough to run DCC for many years.
More dice, more tables. I have several sets, plus there is the Purple Sorcerer app. I think that the extra dice is a gimmick that, in many situations, solves a situation that a judge could easily with a quick decision. That is just me though.