Quote from: Brad on July 19, 2023, 12:34:46 PM
Pretty sad a group of people are so mentally weak they can't handle correct English. I like DCC, but I don't think I'll be giving Wokeman Games anymore money at this point.

Lol! And it appears they may have simply done a "Find, Replace" hack job with the pronouns.  A comment in the discussion section on the DCC RPG entry at DTRPG and a Reddit post (iirc) complains about this.

Edit: @Thorn just quoted an example above!

Pandering sucks. Pandering = placate = treating folks like toddlers.  No thanks.

I'm going one further than you: no more money from me and I'll be recouping some money already spent by selling my DCC collection.  Throw in my POD Basic Fantasy stuff, and I've reclaimed a considerable amount of shelf space.

Oh the horror. I'm so disappointed that goodman assumed the gender of the mage. copied and pasted from the 10th printing pdf

"DCC #96: The Tower of Faces (Level 6)
by Nick Judson, cover artwork by Sanjulian
The adventurers have been summoned to a mysterious black tower made of glass. They are
given a simple mission: protect the mage's estate while he is distracted weaving a mighty spell.
Surviving the five days of hisspellcasting requires quick wits and sharp blades, for the estate has
mischievous guests and strange visitors. In the end, the mage demands one final task: stand by
his side as he binds a great horror from beyond!"

We need to gender neutralize this so no one is offended (confusion is but a small price to pay).

"The adventurers have been summoned to a mysterious black tower made of glass. They are
given a simple mission: protect the mage's estate while they are distracted weaving a mighty spell.
Surviving the five days of their spellcasting requires quick wits and sharp blades, for the estate has
mischievous guests and strange visitors. In the end, the mage demands one final task: stand by
their side as they bind a great horror from beyond!"

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 19, 2023, 02:36:12 PM
Wow. They didn't want to misgender Jim Roslof

DCC RPG is dedicated to
Jim Roslof
1945-2011
TSR class of 1979
One of the great fantasy illustrators,
who is already missed. their work
for DCC RPG includes their last
four illustrations, which appear on
pages 76, 88, 110, and 205, as well
as prior illustrations appearing on
pages 13 and 375.

My hardcopy says "his"

Where is Jules when you need him?  English motherfucker, do you speak it?

Quote from: Exploderwizard on July 20, 2023, 01:05:12 PM

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 19, 2023, 02:36:12 PM
Wow. They didn't want to misgender Jim Roslof

DCC RPG is dedicated to
Jim Roslof
1945-2011
TSR class of 1979
One of the great fantasy illustrators,
who is already missed. their work
for DCC RPG includes their last
four illustrations, which appear on
pages 76, 88, 110, and 205, as well
as prior illustrations appearing on
pages 13 and 375.

My hardcopy says "his"

Where is Jules when you need him?  English motherfucker, do you speak it?

He's walking the earth, meeting people, getting into adventures. Like Kane in Kung Fu.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on July 19, 2023, 07:13:05 AM

Quote from: Thor's Nads on July 19, 2023, 03:52:10 AM
I looked at a copy of the newest DCC rulebook at a local con. The pronouns made it literally unlegible. I had no idea what was plural, what was singular, who was what.

I've had this issue with other RPGs using they/them for singular pronouns. It gets downright confusing at times.

I refuse to write that in my work.  Language has rules for a reason: so people can understand each other.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 20, 2023, 07:24:22 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on July 19, 2023, 07:13:05 AM

Quote from: Thor's Nads on July 19, 2023, 03:52:10 AM
I looked at a copy of the newest DCC rulebook at a local con. The pronouns made it literally unlegible. I had no idea what was plural, what was singular, who was what.

I've had this issue with other RPGs using they/them for singular pronouns. It gets downright confusing at times.

I refuse to write that in my work.  Language has rules for a reason: so people can understand each other.

True, but fee fees are infinitely more important than established written English. lool

DCC is apparently a formerly hardcore, old school, balls to the wall game; that has now decided to go lick those balls, instead.

QuoteWow. They didn't want to misgender Jim Roslof

DCC RPG is dedicated to
Jim Roslof
1945-2011
TSR class of 1979
One of the great fantasy illustrators,
who is already missed. their work
for DCC RPG includes their last
four illustrations, which appear on
pages 76, 88, 110, and 205, as well
as prior illustrations appearing on
pages 13 and 375.

My hardcopy says "his"

Are you kidding me?

DCC just did an amazing magic trick! They made a whole chunk of tasty money stay in my pocket and never go to their company!!

Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 20, 2023, 07:24:22 PM
Language has rules for a reason: so people can understand each other.

Yes indeed, and those who demand we break the rules of language are actually motivated by the desire to disrupt communication and understanding (or are useful idiots for those that do).

DCC is bowing down to the very folk who will delight in their unraveling.

Quote from: FASAfan on July 19, 2023, 02:37:13 PM

Quote from: Brad on July 19, 2023, 12:34:46 PM
Pretty sad a group of people are so mentally weak they can't handle correct English. I like DCC, but I don't think I'll be giving Wokeman Games anymore money at this point.

Lol! And it appears they may have simply done a "Find, Replace" hack job with the pronouns.  A comment in the discussion section on the DCC RPG entry at DTRPG and a Reddit post (iirc) complains about this.

Sounds like a recipe for a "dawizard"-sized fiasco.

In general, it seems for me like a silly thing to get outraged over either way. I don't agree with anyone who was outraged over DCC's previous use of pronouns, and the minor edit seems like virtue signaling, but I also don't agree with people outraged over singular "they".

I find singular "they" is easier to read than AD&D's "he or she", and I didn't find AD&D's pronouns difficult. I agree with Chris24601 that use of "you" is also a good gender neutral pronoun, but any of these can be used with clarity. There will always be a few gaffes in any writing - it's no big deal.

As a little more on singular "they"...

Quote from: Zalman on July 19, 2023, 11:33:29 AM

Quote from: GamerforHire on July 19, 2023, 10:22:55 AM
Many of you, OP included, are over the top. This sort of gender-neutral, third person pronoun usage has become common in publishing and has been for years.

Complete nonsense. What is common is to use a plural pronoun for an indeterminate person, i.e., "if anyone sticks their hand in the fire, they will get burned". Using plural pronouns for specific individuals is entirely different -- complete aberration of English intentionally designed to disrupt, confuse, and control.

Singular they has also been used for a specific person of unknown gender. i.e. "Someone walked out that door five minutes ago." "Did you get a good look at them? Which way did they go?" This isn't just recent usage - it goes back centuries. As an early example:

"Who is in love with her? Who makes you their confidant?" — Jane Austen, in Emma (1815)


The new thing is real-world people identifying as non-binary gender and/or preferring "they" as a pronoun, but I don't think that's what DCC or most other fantasy games are doing.

It's backwards logic to say "If people are going to identify as non-binary, then we have to go back and take singular 'they' out of English even though it has been used for centuries."  If one cares about tradition, then singular they is established usage.

AH! But all you geniuses railed and sighed so hard about DCC, didn't you?!? It got so sickening. You HRUMPHED D&D but DCC could do no wrong LOL  Now what?!?!? Aw you can't play with your 0-level PCs who just get slaughtered the first session anymore? C'mon, keep playing "They/Them Pat" who gets offended when you call it He or She 

It was a stupid game from the start. How is 0-level play interesting? BURN IT.

Quote from: David Johansen on July 18, 2023, 09:45:45 PM
I've generally tried to keep the text in my games gender neutral as I got accused of having a very anti-female bias in an early one due to having women in examples for some reason.  I didn't count but I probably over compensated.

I remain a fan of the games that have used male pronouns exclusively for players and female for GMs or vice versa.

Makes a lot of things flow better in terms of following pronoun antecedents.