Quote from: Chris24601 on July 30, 2023, 10:26:35 AMMy contention is that compared to so much else, this issue is akin to complaining about a hangnail after being diagnosed with metastatic cancer. You're trying to fight to reclaim a hill that your side only briefly occupied and was then reclaimed while your whole flank is being bombarded.

My contention is that people like you ignored all the hangnails, and laughed at anyone that was concerned about them, and the hangnails turned cancerous. Then you want to focus on the existing cancer, and ignore the new hangnails. You have no ability to see chain of events, or to learn from past mistakes.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 30, 2023, 10:26:35 AMIf they start putting ranbowsparklefurries and values into their material is what I care about. Until then I'm sick of seeking out things to get outraged by for the dopamine hit and of alienating people who might agree on 90% because they aren't agreeing on the remaining 10%.

You talk like 10% can't be a deal breaker. Like someone is 90% of the same ideals, but in the 10% they support gulags or MAPs. And yes, someone could absolutely have that type of cognitive dissonance. Just look at all the rainbow Christians that popped up.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 30, 2023, 10:26:35 AMPersonally, I think this culture is at a stage where we need even the 60% allies in the push back against the 100% enemies of civilization. Any common ground we can reach is someplace we can push back from.

And you're wrong, because an ally that disagrees with almost half the things you believe in cannot be relied upon. They're the ally that votes with your enemies at the break point, because one thing you believe is no-go for them, or the other side exploited their emotions.

"Oh I agree that censorship is out of control, but you have to protect women from misogyny, so of course we need someone policing chat!"

Worse than worthless, because you open the gate for them.

This thread gave me metastatic brain cancer. 

I'll be sending you my medical bills (the plural "you", cuz the singular is for wokesters). 

When sexual abusers start demanding hobbyist publishers facilitate abuse by forcing propaganda into child/young-adult focused hobbies, Chris is too busy to object because Lord Byron once used second-person indefinite plural pronouns.

Besides BOTH sides are the same because in the magical realm of pure rhetoric where we ignore all issues of actual power, history, and harm to real humans, anyone who objects to any language being present in a work is fundamentally motivated by a desire to control someone else's speech.

Quote from: Zelen on July 30, 2023, 05:27:28 PM
When sexual abusers start demanding hobbyist publishers facilitate abuse by forcing propaganda into child/young-adult focused hobbies, Chris is too busy to object because Lord Byron once used second-person indefinite plural pronouns.

Besides BOTH sides are the same because in the magical realm of pure rhetoric where we ignore all issues of actual power, history, and harm to real humans, anyone who objects to any language being present in a work is fundamentally motivated by a desire to control someone else's speech.

If you must lie to yourself about what I said to make yourself feel better, that says a lot.

"This feels like the flipside of the Left's microaggressions nonsense; instead of dealing with real outrages, you focus all your attention on peripheral BS and make that into a point of outrage and purity spiraling."

"My contention is that compared to so much else, this issue is akin to complaining about a hangnail after being diagnosed with metastatic cancer. You're trying to fight to reclaim a hill that your side only briefly occupied and was then reclaimed while your whole flank is being bombarded."

Translation: you're ranting about grammar issues instead of focusing on the sexual abusers. I WANT the focus on the sex abusers and not on grammatical case that's now three decades behind enemy lines.

You'd rather just do a performative virtue-signaling rant about grammar on a message board and label anyone who doesn't join into your two-minute hate as an enemy.

I'll admit to poking the bear a bit... but saying the OP was triggered by failure to use their preferred pronouns and then instead of taking even a moment of self-reflection instead launching into an absolute tirade just makes you look even more like the humorless wokescolds you so despise.

"If they start putting ranbowsparklefurries and values into their material is what I care about. Until then I'm sick of seeking out things to get outraged by for the dopamine hit and of alienating people who might agree on 90% because they aren't agreeing on the remaining 10%."

Translation: I care about people actually putting child abuse bullshit into games now, not ones who are just opting for indefinite singular they (the one quoted is just as easily a blanket "find/replace" macro, not an effort to erase definite genders... that would just make them guilty of laziness).

Similarly, I'm sick of the BS where, even if you agree on the social issues 100%, if you don't march in lockstep with the OSR way to play, you're a fascist and woke. Pundit and so many others here literally swat away people who'd love to stand with them on the issue of woke intrusion into gaming, but are called fascists and woke because we don't worship in the cargo cult of the OSR... then you bitch about nobody wanting to support your side because you've driven them all away over what sort of elf games they like.

"At this point I fully expect some of the extremists here to label my material as "woke" simply because I choose to write my rule books in the second person it feels more personable and inviting instead of using a dispassionate clinical masculine third person rather than judge by the content."

Huh, didn't see that coming did I?

So again I close with this, because it absolutely befits this thread;

"He (the devil) always sends errors into the world in pairs--pairs of opposites...He relies on your extra dislike of one to draw you gradually into the opposite one. But do not let us be fooled. We have to keep our eyes on the goal and go straight through between both errors. We have no other concern than that with either of them." - C.S. Lewis

The world according to the RPG Site...

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 30, 2023, 06:56:25 PM

Quote from: Zelen on July 30, 2023, 05:27:28 PM
When sexual abusers start demanding hobbyist publishers facilitate abuse by forcing propaganda into child/young-adult focused hobbies, Chris is too busy to object because Lord Byron once used second-person indefinite plural pronouns.

Besides BOTH sides are the same because in the magical realm of pure rhetoric where we ignore all issues of actual power, history, and harm to real humans, anyone who objects to any language being present in a work is fundamentally motivated by a desire to control someone else's speech.

If you must lie to yourself about what I said to make yourself feel better, that says a lot.

"This feels like the flipside of the Left's microaggressions nonsense; instead of dealing with real outrages, you focus all your attention on peripheral BS and make that into a point of outrage and purity spiraling."

"My contention is that compared to so much else, this issue is akin to complaining about a hangnail after being diagnosed with metastatic cancer. You're trying to fight to reclaim a hill that your side only briefly occupied and was then reclaimed while your whole flank is being bombarded."

Translation: you're ranting about grammar issues instead of focusing on the sexual abusers. I WANT the focus on the sex abusers and not on grammatical case that's now three decades behind enemy lines.

You'd rather just do a performative virtue-signaling rant about grammar on a message board and label anyone who doesn't join into your two-minute hate as an enemy.

I'll admit to poking the bear a bit... but saying the OP was triggered by failure to use their preferred pronouns and then instead of taking even a moment of self-reflection instead launching into an absolute tirade just makes you look even more like the humorless wokescolds you so despise.

"If they start putting ranbowsparklefurries and values into their material is what I care about. Until then I'm sick of seeking out things to get outraged by for the dopamine hit and of alienating people who might agree on 90% because they aren't agreeing on the remaining 10%."

Translation: I care about people actually putting child abuse bullshit into games now, not ones who are just opting for indefinite singular they (the one quoted is just as easily a blanket "find/replace" macro, not an effort to erase definite genders... that would just make them guilty of laziness).

Similarly, I'm sick of the BS where, even if you agree on the social issues 100%, if you don't march in lockstep with the OSR way to play, you're a fascist and woke. Pundit and so many others here literally swat away people who'd love to stand with them on the issue of woke intrusion into gaming, but are called fascists and woke because we don't worship in the cargo cult of the OSR... then you bitch about nobody wanting to support your side because you've driven them all away over what sort of elf games they like.

"At this point I fully expect some of the extremists here to label my material as "woke" simply because I choose to write my rule books in the second person it feels more personable and inviting instead of using a dispassionate clinical masculine third person rather than judge by the content."

Huh, didn't see that coming did I?

So again I close with this, because it absolutely befits this thread;

"He (the devil) always sends errors into the world in pairs--pairs of opposites...He relies on your extra dislike of one to draw you gradually into the opposite one. But do not let us be fooled. We have to keep our eyes on the goal and go straight through between both errors. We have no other concern than that with either of them." - C.S. Lewis

Translation you'll fight to mantain the linguistic tools that allow them to abuse children and women.

Greetings!

Well, I certainly believe that priorities are meaningful and important--crucial to maintaining sanity, and achieving victory in the culture war we are engaged in.

It is also important to attract and retain allies, everywhere possible. That is important as well.

However, concerning Goodman Games' announcement of editorial policy changes--yes, it seems minor and more or less a "Tempest in a Teapot"--and yet, the dichotomy remains true. Total corruption and defeat starts with the minor things, the baby things, the getting the camel's snout under the tent.

Ignoring that reality is how we have gotten to where we are at, culturally. Too many people smugly laughed and dismissed all such increasing efforts and attempts at corruption by the Woke Marxists as being pathetic, harmless, fringe, and insignificant.

All of those smug elders and know-it-alls were wrong.

In every instance, every episode, good people need to savagely attack and resist these degenerates with flamethrowers and teeth.

If Goodman Games' editorial policy change was merely and innocently an effort to align themselves with the standards of the Chicago Manual of Style--why announce it? Why change previously written and published works? It is precisely because it is not innocent, it is not professional or academic in concern--but rather, ideological. It is public chest-beating and an effort to publicly align themselves with the degenerate mob. VIRTUE SIGNALING.

Let them choke on it. Let fire be their portion!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on July 30, 2023, 07:29:14 PM
Greetings!

Well, I certainly believe that priorities are meaningful and important--crucial to maintaining sanity, and achieving victory in the culture war we are engaged in.

It is also important to attract and retain allies, everywhere possible. That is important as well.

However, concerning Goodman Games' announcement of editorial policy changes--yes, it seems minor and more or less a "Tempest in a Teapot"--and yet, the dichotomy remains true. Total corruption and defeat starts with the minor things, the baby things, the getting the camel's snout under the tent.

Ignoring that reality is how we have gotten to where we are at, culturally. Too many people smugly laughed and dismissed all such increasing efforts and attempts at corruption by the Woke Marxists as being pathetic, harmless, fringe, and insignificant.

All of those smug elders and know-it-alls were wrong.

In every instance, every episode, good people need to savagely attack and resist these degenerates with flamethrowers and teeth.

If Goodman Games' editorial policy change was merely and innocently an effort to align themselves with the standards of the Chicago Manual of Style--why announce it? Why change previously written and published works? It is precisely because it is not innocent, it is not professional or academic in concern--but rather, ideological. It is public chest-beating and an effort to publicly align themselves with the degenerate mob. VIRTUE SIGNALING.

Let them choke on it. Let fire be their portion!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Dang SHARK. You are always much more eloquent than me. This exactly.

There's a difference between pointing out valid concerns (what people think that they're doing here) and yelling into the ether as you go into a purity spiral attacking people who basically agree with you with accusations of grooming, cuz they had the audacity of bringing (valid) nuanced points into the discussion (what's actually going on here).

What no one here has apparently done in decades...

Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on July 30, 2023, 08:08:05 PM

Quote from: SHARK on July 30, 2023, 07:29:14 PM
Greetings!

Well, I certainly believe that priorities are meaningful and important--crucial to maintaining sanity, and achieving victory in the culture war we are engaged in.

It is also important to attract and retain allies, everywhere possible. That is important as well.

However, concerning Goodman Games' announcement of editorial policy changes--yes, it seems minor and more or less a "Tempest in a Teapot"--and yet, the dichotomy remains true. Total corruption and defeat starts with the minor things, the baby things, the getting the camel's snout under the tent.

Ignoring that reality is how we have gotten to where we are at, culturally. Too many people smugly laughed and dismissed all such increasing efforts and attempts at corruption by the Woke Marxists as being pathetic, harmless, fringe, and insignificant.

All of those smug elders and know-it-alls were wrong.

In every instance, every episode, good people need to savagely attack and resist these degenerates with flamethrowers and teeth.

If Goodman Games' editorial policy change was merely and innocently an effort to align themselves with the standards of the Chicago Manual of Style--why announce it? Why change previously written and published works? It is precisely because it is not innocent, it is not professional or academic in concern--but rather, ideological. It is public chest-beating and an effort to publicly align themselves with the degenerate mob. VIRTUE SIGNALING.

Let them choke on it. Let fire be their portion!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Dang SHARK. You are always much more eloquent than me. This exactly.

Greetings!

THORN! Thank you, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 30, 2023, 08:36:58 PM
There's a difference between pointing out valid concerns (what people think that they're doing here) and yelling into the ether as you go into a purity spiral attacking people who basically agree with you with accusations of grooming, cuz they had the audacity of bringing (valid) nuanced points into the discussion (what's actually going on here).

What no one here has apparently done in decades...

I haven't seen ANYONE but YOU accussing someone of grooming.

Quote from: Grognard GM on July 30, 2023, 11:27:48 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 30, 2023, 10:26:35 AMMy contention is that compared to so much else, this issue is akin to complaining about a hangnail after being diagnosed with metastatic cancer. You're trying to fight to reclaim a hill that your side only briefly occupied and was then reclaimed while your whole flank is being bombarded.

My contention is that people like you ignored all the hangnails, and laughed at anyone that was concerned about them, and the hangnails turned cancerous. Then you want to focus on the existing cancer, and ignore the new hangnails. You have no ability to see chain of events, or to learn from past mistakes.

It's a variation on the "starving children in Africa" argument. That there's always something worse going on, and you cannot express any opinions on anything while something worse in the wide world is out there begging for our immediate attention.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 30, 2023, 10:12:37 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 30, 2023, 08:36:58 PM
There's a difference between pointing out valid concerns (what people think that they're doing here) and yelling into the ether as you go into a purity spiral attacking people who basically agree with you with accusations of grooming, cuz they had the audacity of bringing (valid) nuanced points into the discussion (what's actually going on here).

What no one here has apparently done in decades...

I haven't seen ANYONE but YOU accussing someone of grooming.

Quote from: Zelen on July 30, 2023, 05:27:28 PM
When sexual abusers start demanding hobbyist publishers facilitate abuse by forcing propaganda into child/young-adult focused hobbies, Chris is too busy to object because Lord Byron once used second-person indefinite plural pronouns.

Besides BOTH sides are the same because in the magical realm of pure rhetoric where we ignore all issues of actual power, history, and harm to real humans, anyone who objects to any language being present in a work is fundamentally motivated by a desire to control someone else's speech.

If you don't agree with us (or provide any push back/alternate views) you must be in league/enabling sexual abusers going after children (i.e. "groomers").

Last time I checked, the worst of the "groomers" and sexual predators were the legion of rich, white, heterosexual White guys patronizing Jeffrey Epstein's home. And, it should be pointed out, these same guys straddled both sides of the liberal/conservative spectrum. All this "gay/woke people are sex predators" rhetoric is barely a step above the anti-Semitic slurs of Nazi Germany. I am not saying you are Nazis, but your blind blubbering of stereotypes and lies is in the same corner of the universe.

It is one thing to criticize the extent to which gay/woke supporters are trying to empower similar young people with language, books, etc. that reflect an identity, but it is a whole other thing to accuse that community of sex crimes and conspiracies to harm children.

Quote from: GamerforHire on July 31, 2023, 09:13:27 AM
All this "gay/woke people are sex predators"... gay/woke supporters...

Do you think 'gay' and 'woke' are the same thing?