I liked "The Jeweler who Dealt in Stardust" from the 2012 Rpg day give away (probably still can get a pdf), Intrigue at the Court of Chaos was weird and cool.  Another favorite is "Creeping Beauties" which is 3rd party but is an exploration of creepy fairytale tropes.

It's a pretty great game in nearly every respect. Though it is a fair cop to point out that the sub-systems require everyone to be pretty proficient with the rules, and there are a shit ton of tables, so lots of page flipping at the table.

I have yet to give DCC a try at the game table, and I love the magic system, but the OP's experience seems to mirror at least some of my (so far, theoretical) reservations. Though it could be a playstyle thing as some have pointed out. Left to my own devices, I am very much a push-that-button-pull-that-lever as a player, but not everyone digs having one around and I'll often have to rein in my playstyle depending on the group.

Hell, if I was coming from my last campaign (OD&D hardcore dungeon survival horror), there'd be some serious cognitive dissonance.

DCC is a beautiful game but it sometimes strikes me as trying too hard. I don't know whether that criticism will resonate with anyone else. But the complexity behind (say) spells and patrons makes it quite a bit of work to create your own (compared to, say, creating a deity or spell or monster for any TSR edition of D&D).

Quote from: The Butcher;859217Left to my own devices, I am very much a push-that-button-pull-that-lever as a player, but not everyone digs having one around and I'll often have to rein in my playstyle depending on the group.

We've got a guy like that in our DCC group and at first he did seem to get on people's nerves... but he missed a few sessions and folks realized the game was a whole lot more fun with the sort of chaos he brought.

QuoteBut the complexity behind (say) spells and patrons makes it quite a bit of work to create your own (compared to, say, creating a deity or spell or monster for any TSR edition of D&D).

I suspect part of what makes it seem like more work is stressing over 'getting it right'... making it 'balanced'... rather than just throwing caution to the wind and making up something cool... and maybe tweaking it later.
So maybe a spell gave you a rain of meteors that utterly destroyed the enemy army... doesn't mean that will ever happen again.

Quote from: Durn;859113And the game works best when players are tuned into using Luck, Mighty Deeds and Spellburn, otherwise, you are more or less playing D&D with spell tables.

Yes. Totally this.

Quote from: Simlasa;859119That's quite true from what I've seen... DCC has all sorts of toys to play with, levers to pull, but if you approach it in that careful-cautious 'fantasy vietnam' way, or try to min-max it, then, jeez, no one would ever cast a spell... or bond to a Patron.
Players need to kick the tires and play dangerously.

It also has safety nets, so this is actually the safer approach.

Quote from: Brad;859120DCC requires a GM who enjoys prepping for sessions, it does NOT require players understand all the underlying mechanics, again, like AD&D. "Modern gaming" seems to be way too concerned with system mastery over games mastery; they're not the same thing.

Nope, I can run a session or campaign just fine, no preparation required.

Quote from: Brad;859122Risk vs. reward. That's Old School. New Skool is being a pussy and expecting 10000 xp for winning a fight that has zero chance of failure. "Oh you showed up for today's session? Figure out the gp and xp I owe your character, and give me a list of magic items you want to purchase." So, basically, fuck those games.

Isn't that axe grinded enough by now? There are enough games created in the 2000s and later that aren't working in the way described.

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;859128Yes. very much this. The system rewards you for acting like Fahard and the Gray Mouser or Elric. Play big or go home.

If only players could understand that!

Quote from: RPGPundit;859149Which, considering how too much OSR stuff goes out of its way to try to make players be ultra-cautious and never dare, is why DCC is badly needed and so awesome.

Well, it depends on the players more than the rules.

Quote from: AndrewSFTSN;859168That's how we're already doing it!  It seems to slow play down to a crawl with my guys.

Player:  "Hmm so I think I rolled a 15 last time, so if I had spellburned five points instead of 4 this round, I could have hit three targets instead of 1 - I'll have to remember that.  Wait, I forgot to add my caster bonus, does that mean I DO get the three targets?  Or do I have to use some luck?"

DM:  "MY SENSE OF WONDER IS OFF THE CHARTS"

Thanks a lot for the link to the Crawlers Companion by the way, that's definitely gotta help.

Do you like that? After all, if they don't know the results, they're going to have to experiment. Real wizards would...though not during a fight.
If you don't, tell them you're adding 1d6-1d6 to the results of their spells without telling them the adjusted result.

Quote from: Larsdangly;859202It's a pretty great game in nearly every respect. Though it is a fair cop to point out that the sub-systems require everyone to be pretty proficient with the rules, and there are a shit ton of tables, so lots of page flipping at the table.

Actually, no, Warrior and Thief certainly don't require any such thing. Speaking as an Warrior player, "roll a die, if you get 3 or more on it and hit, do something extra" certainly doesn't require me to be proficient with the system.
Wizards, elves and clerics reward system mastery, yes, but not the other classes.

Loved reading DCC, have loved playing it, but I can see players need to be committed to a: reading the books and tables and b: randomness.

Now, how do people feel about the funny dice?

Quote from: tzunder;859293Now, how do people feel about the funny dice?

I don't mind them at all. I'm not fond of the fugly 'official' set that was Kickstarted but the 'Who Knew?' sets from Koplow are big and chunky and I like that. I bought a couple big purple/gold D30s just for spell checks.
I do a lot of rolls on the Crawler's Companion as well though.

I run DCC pretty loose.  Luck, Spellburn, Mighty Deeds, spell tables.  I don't love the mercurial magic all the time, and that's okay.

There will be those players who want to "game it" - especially in a situation like a con game where they will very quickly say "screw it, let's burn all this Luck".  That line of thought does not reward long-term survival, of course.

You can use spells from other OSR sources without much difficulty in DCC if you're willing to do the higher spell-check results on the fly.  Frankly, the thought of having to write up an entire table every time I want to add a custom spell is daunting and seems like extra work relative to the payoff.  So I don't do it.

I strongly recommend looking at DCC as a toolbox rather than a straitjacket.  As soon as you're questioning yourself with OH CRAP AM I DOING THIS WACKY SUBSYSTEM RIGHT you're already out of the moment.

As far as the published DCC adventures, I've only run Sailors on the Starless Sea and The Sea Queen Escapes, both of which I liked, and Elzemon's Blood-Drinking Box, which I didn't care for.  I have played through parts of Peril on the Purple Planet, Doom of the Savage Kings, Bride of the Black Manse, and some others, and enjoyed them fine.

I've adapted non-DCC adventures on the fly without difficulty (Under The Waterless Sea, B4 The Lost City, etc), but occasionally actually do the pre-work (Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan still in progress).

Have your players read Fritz Leiber's The Sadness of the Executioner or Lean Times in Lankhmar. Tell them "It's the RPG of that".

How is Peril on the Purple Planet? The cover art is incredible and I would have bought it instantly if I hadn't been dead broke at the time.

The problem with charts is players can learn them and game them. Or is it the PC learning from experience? How random should magic be for an experienced mage?

I enjoy DCC, but mostly the funnel. Those adventures have been the most fun for me in the DCC-verse.

Quote from: Spinachcat;859320The problem with charts is players can learn them and game them. Or is it the PC learning from experience? How random should magic be for an experienced mage?

The randomness is about more than the skill of the mage... it's about the when, where, who of when the spell is cast... lots of elements the mage has no control over and maybe no awareness of... so yeah, it should retain some element of surprise.
I think it's even fine to occasionally swap in different results as unique events... or even make a whole new chart for a different version of the spell.

Quote from: The ButcherDCC is a beautiful game but it sometimes strikes me as trying too hard. I don't know whether that criticism will resonate with anyone else.

YES it does.  You've nailed it I think.

Quote from: BradSounds like they're just being pussies.

I think this might also be true.  BUT I think they are doing it from the 'player skill, not character skill' attitude that's been beaten into them from other OSR games in our group.

Quote from: Just Another Snake CultHave your players read Fritz Leiber's The Sadness of the Executioner or Lean Times in Lankhmar.

Sadly only one of them.  Also let's not forget that DCC is now OFFICIALLY a Leiber RPG!

Quote from: Durn;859113Definitely try out some of the adventures.  They are often really cool, different and short, but most of all the maps and art are awesome!

A definite +1 to this. I think that the modules written for the DCC RPG (not the 3E ones with DCC in their title) are some of the most fresh and awesome adventures that I've seen in quite a while, and I love the artwork.

also, dcc lankhmar will be more 'subdued' version of dcc proper. so that might work for original poster.

in other news i think that dcc is now my prefered go to d&d family member. as someone noted: if d&d is family and od&d is great-grandfather than dcc is weird uncle with cool stories that hang out around haight ashbury in 60s.

Quote from: ostap bender;859464also, dcc lankhmar will be more 'subdued' version of dcc proper. so that might work for original poster.

in other news i think that dcc is now my prefered go to d&d family member. as someone noted: if d&d is family and od&d is great-grandfather than dcc is weird uncle with cool stories that hang out around haight ashbury in 60s.

You've got it man, but surely DCC could (or should) be the cool drunken uncle making everyone laugh rather than the embarassing fat guy raiding the buffet at the wedding.