Heh, still gots my =][=nquisitor so's I don't need no stinkin' three books with the good stuff in the last one rpg.  Want a vortex grenade?  Hell YES you can have a vortex grenade.  Want big spikey servo claws?  HELL YES YOU CAN HAVE BIG SPIKEY SERVO CLAWS!

The folly of trying to impose limitations on 40k characters is as great as the folly of believing one's life and individuality to be significant in the forty first millenium.

Seriously though, what were you expecting?

Quote from: David JohansenSeriously though, what were you expecting?

I dunno - a bit more pandering? More playing to the whims of the hordes of prepubescent GW fans who will buy anything with Marine printed on it?

More Blade or Hellboy or Sin City? More carnage? More fighting? A spot of joy taken in killing shit?

I dunno - either BI or the rest of games workshop have a bad grasp on what their audience likes, and the rest of GW is the biggest company in hobby gaming.

That and, yknow, what with 4e coming out where effort has been put in to making sure the system works well as a game, and loads of video games putting a lot of effort in to making team based gun combat work, this is just disappointing.

The rebounding health bar of all modern shooters, the cover systems seen in all modern shooters and the sorta team based resurection whereby if one of your teammates goes down you have to rush over and inject them with adrenaline or whatnot are all things that could be stolen just as easily as the MMORPG stuff stolen by 4e.

(For instance in this sorta 40k roleplaying thingy, if someone gets shot you have to use a medpack on them quickly or their health is reduced for the rest of the day -

http://warseer.com/firebase/download/FB03/Firebase_Issue_03.pdf

That one rule makes the thing so much more USEABLE.)

Quote from: One Horse TownBut that was you wasn't it? I thought that you had read it.

Nope, that was off a BI page or one of the developers. It's still tossed around a lot by fans of the game.

Quote from: Erik BoielleI dunno - either BI or the rest of games workshop have a bad grasp on what their audience likes, and the rest of GW is the biggest company in hobby gaming.

Yes, that would be BI; more specifically the Green Ronin branch of BI, who have some purely mercenary and other pretty fucked up motives for releasing the games the way they did.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditmercenary

Well, I don't think its mercenary enough - if theres one time there is a golden oppertunity to make the most shamlessly gratuitously violent game aimed at the most steryotypically kill happy gamer, it has to be 40k.

--

Take for instance, Condemned 2: Bloodshot -

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/29646.html

Theres a bit in an interview where a designer says 'in the previous game, our hero beat two hundred people to death with an iron bar, and in this game we examine what that does to you'.

Quote from: RPGPunditYes, that would be BI; more specifically the Green Ronin branch of BI, who have some purely mercenary and other pretty fucked up motives for releasing the games the way they did.

RPGPundit

Pray tell. You seem to know all about it.

Quote from: KieroClearly you've not read Eisenhorn either.

Yeah, an 800 year old Inquisitor that made a pact with a daemon...etc..etc... yeah not a jumping point for a starting campaign.  Hence more bullshit whining from people predicting the failure of a game that's not really out yet, except in extremely limited conditions and basing their judgment on what 'Bob' did.

Quote from: RPGPunditYes, that would be BI; more specifically the Green Ronin branch of BI, who have some purely mercenary and other pretty fucked up motives for releasing the games the way they did.

RPGPundit

I think you've hit the nail on the head in regards to their motives; this'll pander to the "WFRPG as call of Cthulhu with goofy german puns" crowd, while getting the ultraviolence crowd frothing for the next book...and probably get twice the money out of the later group if the second game requires the Dark Heresy core.

All my players (and I) want from a Space Marine 40K game is the experience of playing Todd from Soldier.....you know, blowing shit up and not having time to bleed.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: LeSquideI think you've hit the nail on the head in regards to their motives; this'll pander to the "WFRPG as call of Cthulhu with goofy german puns" crowd, while getting the ultraviolence crowd frothing for the next book...and probably get twice the money out of the later group if the second game requires the Dark Heresy core.

That's pretty well what they're running on in theory.  

In practice, its a horrific mistake; they should have released a single gamebook, with the opportunity to provide both the ultraviolence and the cool RP, in other words an actually full blown roleplaying game, rather than the three thirds of a roleplaying game that they're planning to release now.

But even barring that, assuming that there was no way they'd release it as a single book because they're just too fucking greedy/pigheaded/ideologically motivated, at the very least they should have been sufficiently intelligent to release the Ultraviolence game FIRST.  But no, you see, that wouldn't "teach" us how the "right" way to play WFRP is.

What really astounds me is how they could have gotten things so RIGHT with WFRP, and so WRONG with WFRP40k.  There's some little detail missing there: was there a different person in charge of the overall project, or the company, or something like that, between the WFRP release and now?

RPGPundit

Quote from: David RAll my players (and I) want from a Space Marine 40K game is the experience of playing Todd from Soldier.....you know, blowing shit up and not having time to bleed.

Hmmm.  That would give me the opportunity to use all of those military science fiction soundtracks that I have (e.g., Soldier, Wing Commander, Starship Troopers, parts of Dune, Halo, "The Space Fleet" from Silent Running, etc.).

Quote from: RPGPunditWhat really astounds me is how they could have gotten things so RIGHT with WFRP, and so WRONG with WFRP40k.  There's some little detail missing there: was there a different person in charge of the overall project, or the company, or something like that, between the WFRP release and now?

Surely you already know the answer to this question, don't you?  I mean, if you're going to presume to know people's motivations and innermost thoughts then we can only assume that you're fully briefed on relatively transparent details like these...

KoOS

Quote from: kryystYeah, an 800 year old Inquisitor that made a pact with a daemon...etc..etc... yeah not a jumping point for a starting campaign.  Hence more bullshit whining from people predicting the failure of a game that's not really out yet, except in extremely limited conditions and basing their judgment on what 'Bob' did.

Like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about.

See, theres a bit a the beginning of Xenos where Fischig kills five hire muscle and disables one of Eyeclone's leutentants all on his own, while wearing flack armour and armed with a combat shotgun.

I'm not sure even a maxed out Dark Heresy PC could recreate this feat, which isn't all that impressive compared to other things in the books.