So, I've played a bit of all these games and a person said I should make a thread/review about this.  So, I'll write a review the way I like to see reviews- a way that helps me when it comes to making a decision regarding spending.  So, first I gotta do disclaimers.

DISCLAIMER:  I haven't played Dark Heresy 1e since 2008.  I played an Assassin and I died.  The first game.  I made a Guardsman and died a few games later.  Our GM was a bit amateur, but then so was I when I took over (because I died.  There's a theme here).  

DISCLAIMER 2:  I didn't play but a couple of Only War games, and then re-made the same character on Dark Heresy 2e when it came out and I got it.

So, up front- I'm not going to claim to be 'intimate' with the game.  We've simply had some heavy petting, but nothing serious.

1- What's the difference between Dark Heresy and Only War?  

I'll be up front with you:  Military focused games like Only War get to be really boring, really quick.  It's all about accomplishing a combat mission, or something to that effect.  Really, the closest you can get to 'intrigue' is some inter-rank/inter-regiment/inter-cultural disagreements and perhaps you discover someone's a traitor.  And then you shoot them. Maybe it was my GM, maybe it was the options he had- I can see that, after reading through the book a bit.  Trust me when I say this:  Military life is pretty fucking simple, maybe not boring- but it's pretty simple.  Maybe it's that- I don't see the 'cool' that other people will.

Only War also loses some of the potential for the fun things you can encounter in Dark Heresy.  You're probably not going to have a routine combat patrol in Only Warand encounter some very exotic Xenos or anything, and this is where Dark Heresy shines.  In DH, there is that fear that the next heresy you encounter could be anything from a warp-spawned horror, to a fucking Slaugth, or some of those torture-fetish Eldar Haemonculi.  Even though a really, REALLY clever GM could work that into Only War- well, it's a lot less likely.

In the end, Only War is very combat focused.  Truth be told, it'd be good for a weekender to take your mind off another game.  Or perhaps a fun 'background story' game for your Guardsman before he goes into the employ of an Inquisitor.  This is what I did, and it seemed interesting.

2- What do they have in common?

Well, without getting into how the system plays- these games are just as lethal as DH 1e.  And if you're not familiar with it, let me explain:  Armor is your friend.  If you do not have armor, be prepared to get one-shotted.  Yes, a basic las-rifle can kill most players.  And what doesn't kill you?  Tends to blow off an appendage.  There's a system for that, too.  A lot of folks complain about this, some folks claim it's a 'feature'- the truth is, most people argue about how good or bad of a feature it is.  Personally?  If it bothers you, slap a few more hit points on everyone and pass out the Carapace armor.  This is the key thing, though- a GM that gets anxious to throw cool challenges at players early in the game will run a risk of just killing them off.  I HIGHLY recommend 'playing with yourself' to test a scenario.  I mean doing some dice rolling/scenario testing not... well, do both.

DH 2e and OW both have a more robust character creation system than DH 1e, but it's very similar.  Now- before you ask if it's compatible?  I don't know, but I do know that there's a lot in OW that requires comrades and I'm not sure that converts precisely over.  I've read the Comrade system doesn't work, but I'm not sure how it doesn't.  I'll also say that I don't see how you can't get around this, because not everything requires comrades and some Specialties outright forbid their use.  At worst, you could do what I did and just re-make your guy, because the backgrounds work in both games (doesn't mean they're always useful).

Both of them have the background system that affects certain things you do- none of which I can remember, but this is probably one of those things that you'd talk to the group about.  Being an Urban Savant might not be useful in Jungle of Suck.  

3- So which do you recommend?

So, cut and dried here- Dark Heresy 2e.  It's got a lot more interesting stuff, period... just like the first.  And I'm pretty sure you can still use a lot of the same stuff from 1e.  There's a lot to explore as an agent of the Inquisition, and an entire 'religious political' game that's going on between a buttload of different factions of the Inquisition.

BUT, if you want a 'war game' that isn't going to cost you $500.00 and a chunk of your dignity for playing with little plastic men?  Then grab Only War.  However, Only War is probably going to be a lot more limited in the 'new and interesting thing' department.  

Of course, if you want to buy both?  Well, as silly as this sounds- get Dark Heresy first, see what the options are there, and then get Only War and figure out if you want to Voltron these games together somehow.

BONUS!:

Wanna be a jerk?  Players being whiny?  Get Black Crusade and send a mutated/possessed Chaos Space Marine after them on a Space Hulk.  I'm not certain it works, but I hear it does.

Now, last but not least- I have to discuss something important.  PRICE POINT.

$30.00 on Drive-Thru RPG.  No, I'm not advertising for them.  I bought mine at a Books-A-Million, though- for a bit more.  Let's just say... ' a little too much'.  That's the drawback to getting the hardcover books you can take anywhere and read anywhere.  They're close to $50 these days.  If you can get it used?  Do it.  It's really hard for me to justify 'brand new price' on the core books, especially when other supplements are coming out that cost $30.00-$40.00.  

Maybe this is a stupid suggestion, but what I like to do is go get the book in a bookstore after I've sat in a corner and thumbed through it to see if I like it.  In a case where these games are gonna cost you somewhere close to $200.00 for all the goodies?  Might be a good idea.

Quote from: Crüesader;901807I'll be up front with you:  Military focused games like Only War get to be really boring, really quick.  It's all about accomplishing a combat mission, or something to that effect.  Really, the closest you can get to 'intrigue' is some inter-rank/inter-regiment/inter-cultural disagreements and perhaps you discover someone's a traitor.  And then you shoot them. Maybe it was my GM, maybe it was the options he had- I can see that, after reading through the book a bit.  Trust me when I say this:  Military life is pretty fucking simple, maybe not boring- but it's pretty simple.  Maybe it's that- I don't see the 'cool' that other people will.

Thanks for the comparison.

One thing: While I agree that military-type RPGs are limited in the choice of stories they might tell, I don't think they are that boring. Only War's PCs aren't particularly strong and therefore pretty much everything they face is a challenge. Forget about enemies - supplies, resources, securing some place, traveling from point A to point B, delivering a message where no hi-tech communication is available, protecting someone...

This makes the game perfect for certain types of adventures, like:

Spoiler

Quote from: JesterRaiin;901817Only War's PCs aren't particularly strong and therefore pretty much everything they face is a challenge.

Probably shoulve have referenced this for people that aren't familiar with either title, glad you said something.  This is true.  Both games force you to use a bit of caution before just charging in on something.  While there may be other, similar games- in most non-WoD games combat is pretty much risky, but not 'realistic'.  There's a part of DH/OW that makes me feel the realism.  You want to set up an ambush, booby trap things, use clever methods to take them down, stuff like that.  You -have- to or you'll die in the first turn of enemy combat.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;901817This makes the game perfect for certain types of adventures, like:

I'm not ashamed to admit I have several of those on VHS, and the only reason I don't watch them more regularly is because I don't want to damage the tape.

Quote from: Crüesader;901819Probably shoulve have referenced this for people that aren't familiar with either title, glad you said something.  This is true.  Both games force you to use a bit of caution before just charging in on something.  While there may be other, similar games- in most non-WoD games combat is pretty much risky, but not 'realistic'.  There's a part of DH/OW that makes me feel the realism.  You want to set up an ambush, booby trap things, use clever methods to take them down, stuff like that.  You -have- to or you'll die in the first turn of enemy combat.

Oh, you're gonna die, but you're gonna do that... FOR TEH EMPRAH! :cool:

Ahem.

Aside of Rogue Trader, whole RPG branch of WH40k is pretty deadly and brütal when combat is involved (and it always is). It's typical mistake of newcomers to think themselves near invincible machines of destruction and bullrush to the glory... Only to die screaming.

I always advise people to treat first a few characters like a canon fodder, because there's 99% chance that it's what they are really gonna be, nothing more.

QuoteI'm not ashamed to admit I have several of those on VHS, and the only reason I don't watch them more regularly is because I don't want to damage the tape.

Commendable.

I often imagine some far future, when the Mankind is all but a distant myth. The Earth is visited by alien explorers and researches, Prometheus-style. I would want for them to see not our mistakes and downfalls, but things that made us great and worthy of being remembered. That's why I think we should make as many copies of Terminator, Robocop, Alien, Blade Runner and other iconic movies, as possible and hide them in safe places across whole globe.

Quote from: Crüesader;901807I'll be up front with you:  Military focused games like Only War get to be really boring, really quick.  It's all about accomplishing a combat mission, or something to that effect.  Really, the closest you can get to 'intrigue' is some inter-rank/inter-regiment/inter-cultural disagreements and perhaps you discover someone's a traitor.  And then you shoot them. Maybe it was my GM, maybe it was the options he had- I can see that, after reading through the book a bit.  Trust me when I say this:  Military life is pretty fucking simple, maybe not boring- but it's pretty simple.  Maybe it's that- I don't see the 'cool' that other people will.

Thanks for posting this! It crystallizes a long-standing impression of mine.

Also thanks for using Voltron as a verb.

I've never played any one of the 40K RPGs but DH is the one I'd be the most likely to get into. Though if I wanted a milSF ass-kicking vibe I'd probably default do Deathwatch. I imagine Spess Mehreens are more likely to succeed against Big Honkin' Xenos and the Deathwatch premise has a "black ops" thing going on for it.

Quote from: The Butcher;901849I've never played any one of the 40K RPGs but DH is the one I'd be the most likely to get into. Though if I wanted a milSF ass-kicking vibe I'd probably default do Deathwatch. I imagine Spess Mehreens are more likely to succeed against Big Honkin' Xenos and the Deathwatch premise has a "black ops" thing going on for it.

I played Deathwatch once.  I wasn't too fond of it.  As much as I like Space Marines as an army, playing them in an RPG is quite boring.  Especially in the Death Watch, where you entire mission is focused on dealing with Xenos and not traitors/Daemons/heretics/mutants/Kardashians.  Plus, let's face it- you're pretending to be a zealot with absolutely no passion in life except to kill things that aren't human and Emprah-lovin'.  

To be fair, if you just want to do combat-focused missions, you could probably spruce it up with a hex board and some minis from the Death Watch board game.  Tweak the rules a bit, and bam!

Quote from: The Butcher;901849I've never played any one of the 40K RPGs but DH is the one I'd be the most likely to get into.

Why not Rogue Trader? You seem like a guy who would rather enjoy foie gras scenario rather than "HAHA BATTLE BROTHER, JOKE IS ON THEM - I PLANTED NUCLEAR BOMB NEAR REACTOR AND SET IT TO EXPLODE.... LIKE NOW. FOR THE EMPRAH!"

Quote from: JesterRaiin;901857"HAHA BATTLE BROTHER, JOKE IS ON THEM - I PLANTED NUCLEAR BOMB NEAR REACTOR AND SET IT TO EXPLODE.... LIKE NOW. FOR THE EMPRAH!"

You laugh, but this is how the Carcharodons 'won' in the Badab war.  

Except... those things were set on reactors in hive cities.

Quote from: Crüesader;901859You laugh, but this is how the Carcharodons 'won' in the Badab war.  

Except... those things were set on reactors in hive cities.

This Is How I Deathwatch:



More seriously: I think it takes some time to appreciate the charm of playing adventures on Space/Chaos/Deathwatch Marines. For all newcomers I'd suggest Rogue "what teh Emprah doesn't see, didn't happen" Trader.

Quote from: JesterRaiin;901857Why not Rogue Trader? You seem like a guy who would rather enjoy foie gras scenario rather than "HAHA BATTLE BROTHER, JOKE IS ON THEM - I PLANTED NUCLEAR BOMB NEAR REACTOR AND SET IT TO EXPLODE.... LIKE NOW. FOR THE EMPRAH!"

Rogue Trader (or as I like to call it, 40K Munchkin Traveller) looks cool, too, but I'm partial to Dark Heresy's "CoC in space" — even if your investigators' supervisor happens to be a Catholic Space Nazi, you can seek consolation in the fact that Chaos is way worse.

And the above quote sounds like the perfect ending for a Deathwatch game. I'm not sure I'd run a Deathwatch campaign, but a one-shot game or mini-campaign sandwiched between slices of Dark Heresy grimdarkness and misery sounds perfect.

Quote from: Crüesader;901852I played Deathwatch once.  I wasn't too fond of it.  As much as I like Space Marines as an army, playing them in an RPG is quite boring.  Especially in the Death Watch, where you entire mission is focused on dealing with Xenos and not traitors/Daemons/heretics/mutants/Kardashians.  Plus, let's face it- you're pretending to be a zealot with absolutely no passion in life except to kill things that aren't human and Emprah-lovin'.  

I admit to not being terribly into 40K but it sounds easy to expand the Deathwatch mission statement and have a crack squad of cross-chapter Marines sent to clear a Chaos-infested hulk/station/planet. In any case, like I said, I wouldn't do a campaign out of it.

Didn't know there was a Deathwatch boardgame, will look into it. Thanks!

Quote from: JesterRaiin;901860More seriously: I think it takes some time to appreciate the charm of playing adventures on Space/Chaos/Deathwatch Marines. For all newcomers I'd suggest Rogue "what teh Emprah doesn't see, didn't happen" Trader.

That one's kinda fun.  But give it some time for another edition, and you could Voltron it with your Dark Heresy...

Just saying.  There's a -lot- of potential for interesting stuff there.

Quote from: The Butcher;901862Rogue Trader (or as I like to call it, 40K Munchkin Traveller) looks cool, too, but I'm partial to Dark Heresy's "CoC in space" — even if your investigators' supervisor happens to be a Catholic Space Nazi, you can seek consolation in the fact that Chaos is way worse.

And the above quote sounds like the perfect ending for a Deathwatch game. I'm not sure I'd run a Deathwatch campaign, but a one-shot game or mini-campaign sandwiched between slices of Dark Heresy grimdarkness and misery sounds perfect.

Well, in such a case, all I can say is I am innocent of this man's blood. The responsibility is yours! :cool:

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Quote from: The Butcher;901862Rogue Trader (or as I like to call it, 40K Munchkin Traveller) looks cool, too, but I'm partial to Dark Heresy's "CoC in space" — even if your investigators' supervisor happens to be a Catholic Space Nazi, you can seek consolation in the fact that Chaos is way worse.

"Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. Those who understand know that you have no right to let them live." — Exterminatus Extremis

One of the great things about playing Dark Heresy, you can really start digging into some of the stories around the Inquisition- and then you'll start to realize that not even the majority of them are 'Catholic Space Nazis'.  The Inquisition has a lot of brilliant people within it, and part of the whole 'grimdark' setting means that many times (like reality), the decisions you have to make aren't always easy and someones gonna get hosed.  There are Inquisitors that know a hell of a lot more about the Emperor than even some of the Custodes (his companions), and they also know that in the fragile state that mankind is in?  Revealing a lot of truths would cause more problems than they already have.

Quote from: Crüesader;901865"Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. Those who understand know that you have no right to let them live."

And here I was, thinking about that idea for a KULT scenario I had latelty...

But nooooo, somebody had to ruin that by saying "düd, forget that, how about DH scenario instead?"

Thanks very much.

I've always wanted to run an Adeptus Custodes campaign based on the plot of A Weekend At Bernies.

Anyhow, I've run some Dark Heresy and Death Watch games at the store.  I don't love the system.  Something about WFRP taken to the point of absurdity.

Oh well, anyhow, I always try to mix in things from lost cannon and other sources.  Sure you'll fight some Tyranids and Dark Eldar but you'll also get stuck on a world with a bug race that hasn't developed the concept of recycling or repairing things and their entire world is covered in garbage.  Or a former Slan world that's in the last stages of being devoured by d'holes with a webway gate through which these weird Aztec Frog guys are coming through with AP 8, S3 disintegrator guns that make a mockery of powered armor but are hard pressed to seriously wound a marine.  I used the Hrud on a space hulk once.  Like I was going to throw Gene Steallers at low level agents.  If I ever did Only War, I'd probably make the enemy a healthy human democracy that's a front for a Gene Stealler cult.