Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 09:33:53 AM
What Fox has done with Zweihander is not significantly different from OSE, Swords & Wizardry or any number of retroclones out there.

Also, there are still plenty of places to get pirated stuff out there, and The Trove was never the best, nor the most comprehensive. Its download speed was shit.

Nope, because the retroclones added their own thing. Zweihander hasn't. It literally just removed all the copyrighted names and then everything else is literally word for word as it is in the WHFRP book. Check it yourself.

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 11:46:35 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 09:33:53 AM
What Fox has done with Zweihander is not significantly different from OSE, Swords & Wizardry or any number of retroclones out there.

Also, there are still plenty of places to get pirated stuff out there, and The Trove was never the best, nor the most comprehensive. Its download speed was shit.

Nope, because the retroclones added their own thing. Zweihander hasn't. It literally just removed all the copyrighted names and then everything else is literally word for word as it is in the WHFRP book. Check it yourself.

To your first claim, I'm curious as to what you think OSE "added"? Or Swords & Wizardry, for that matter?

As to your second claim, which I assumed was hyperbolic until I saw that you had used the term, "literally", er, no. I own and have read WFRP and Zweihander, and while the latter is obviously and admittedly based off of the former, it is not "word for word". It's nearly double the length, for cryin' out loud. Zweihander uses a different damage system, a "track" instead of a hit-point like system. It handles Armor differently. It handles Magic differently. There are more Combat options. There are differences in Character generation, the way it handles Careers, and on and on.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on July 14, 2022, 11:02:37 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 12, 2022, 01:55:28 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 12, 2022, 01:24:04 PM
Good. Fuck Daniel Fox. Do you think I should send him pirated copies of Zweihander?

That's the RPG about male German models, right?

I would literally play a Zoolander pun RPG a thousand times more than the Warhammer knockoff omnibus by Daniel Fox.

I mean, "pop culture pun" is basically the extent of your writing/design capability, so that tracks.

The one thing that disturbs me is is that this person is using @dungeonminister for their handle,  the real dungeon minister, https://twitter.com/MinisterDungeon , should be the one who is most upset by a clearly toxic person besmirching the name combination he uses.

Reading through that series of tweets, its kind of like a bingo checklist of all the things you expect someone to say "I really thought about whether or not I should come out publicly"   "oh I don't like to make trouble but I decided someone had to say something" etc etc.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 12:38:01 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 11:46:35 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 09:33:53 AM
What Fox has done with Zweihander is not significantly different from OSE, Swords & Wizardry or any number of retroclones out there.

Also, there are still plenty of places to get pirated stuff out there, and The Trove was never the best, nor the most comprehensive. Its download speed was shit.

Nope, because the retroclones added their own thing. Zweihander hasn't. It literally just removed all the copyrighted names and then everything else is literally word for word as it is in the WHFRP book. Check it yourself.

To your first claim, I'm curious as to what you think OSE "added"? Or Swords & Wizardry, for that matter?

As to your second claim, which I assumed was hyperbolic until I saw that you had used the term, "literally", er, no. I own and have read WFRP and Zweihander, and while the latter is obviously and admittedly based off of the former, it is not "word for word". It's nearly double the length, for cryin' out loud. Zweihander uses a different damage system, a "track" instead of a hit-point like system. It handles Armor differently. It handles Magic differently. There are more Combat options. There are differences in Character generation, the way it handles Careers, and on and on.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on July 14, 2022, 11:02:37 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 12, 2022, 01:55:28 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 12, 2022, 01:24:04 PM
Good. Fuck Daniel Fox. Do you think I should send him pirated copies of Zweihander?

That's the RPG about male German models, right?

I would literally play a Zoolander pun RPG a thousand times more than the Warhammer knockoff omnibus by Daniel Fox.

I mean, "pop culture pun" is basically the extent of your writing/design capability, so that tracks.

Why would someone go on the Internet and tell lies? It's LITERALLY identical with the lore, setting info, and names taken out.

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 04:56:31 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 12:38:01 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 11:46:35 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 09:33:53 AM
What Fox has done with Zweihander is not significantly different from OSE, Swords & Wizardry or any number of retroclones out there.

Also, there are still plenty of places to get pirated stuff out there, and The Trove was never the best, nor the most comprehensive. Its download speed was shit.

Nope, because the retroclones added their own thing. Zweihander hasn't. It literally just removed all the copyrighted names and then everything else is literally word for word as it is in the WHFRP book. Check it yourself.

To your first claim, I'm curious as to what you think OSE "added"? Or Swords & Wizardry, for that matter?

As to your second claim, which I assumed was hyperbolic until I saw that you had used the term, "literally", er, no. I own and have read WFRP and Zweihander, and while the latter is obviously and admittedly based off of the former, it is not "word for word". It's nearly double the length, for cryin' out loud. Zweihander uses a different damage system, a "track" instead of a hit-point like system. It handles Armor differently. It handles Magic differently. There are more Combat options. There are differences in Character generation, the way it handles Careers, and on and on.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on July 14, 2022, 11:02:37 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 12, 2022, 01:55:28 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 12, 2022, 01:24:04 PM
Good. Fuck Daniel Fox. Do you think I should send him pirated copies of Zweihander?

That's the RPG about male German models, right?

I would literally play a Zoolander pun RPG a thousand times more than the Warhammer knockoff omnibus by Daniel Fox.

I mean, "pop culture pun" is basically the extent of your writing/design capability, so that tracks.

Why would someone go on the Internet and tell lies? It's LITERALLY identical with the lore, setting info, and names taken out.

You're either taking the piss or you LITERALLY have no idea wtf you're talking about. Take your own advice and read one or both of those games. Also still waiting on an answer ast to what OSE/S&W "add"...

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 04:56:31 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 12:38:01 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 11:46:35 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 09:33:53 AM
What Fox has done with Zweihander is not significantly different from OSE, Swords & Wizardry or any number of retroclones out there.

Also, there are still plenty of places to get pirated stuff out there, and The Trove was never the best, nor the most comprehensive. Its download speed was shit.

Nope, because the retroclones added their own thing. Zweihander hasn't. It literally just removed all the copyrighted names and then everything else is literally word for word as it is in the WHFRP book. Check it yourself.

To your first claim, I'm curious as to what you think OSE "added"? Or Swords & Wizardry, for that matter?

As to your second claim, which I assumed was hyperbolic until I saw that you had used the term, "literally", er, no. I own and have read WFRP and Zweihander, and while the latter is obviously and admittedly based off of the former, it is not "word for word". It's nearly double the length, for cryin' out loud. Zweihander uses a different damage system, a "track" instead of a hit-point like system. It handles Armor differently. It handles Magic differently. There are more Combat options. There are differences in Character generation, the way it handles Careers, and on and on.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on July 14, 2022, 11:02:37 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 12, 2022, 01:55:28 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 12, 2022, 01:24:04 PM
Good. Fuck Daniel Fox. Do you think I should send him pirated copies of Zweihander?

That's the RPG about male German models, right?

I would literally play a Zoolander pun RPG a thousand times more than the Warhammer knockoff omnibus by Daniel Fox.

I mean, "pop culture pun" is basically the extent of your writing/design capability, so that tracks.

Why would someone go on the Internet and tell lies? It's LITERALLY identical with the lore, setting info, and names taken out.

You're wrong. Zweihander has several differences (as has been pointed out), some of them quite significant. Unfortunately,  both it and WFRP 4e added more complexity than I like, so I still prefer WFRP 2e.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 05:29:26 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 04:56:31 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 12:38:01 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 11:46:35 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 09:33:53 AM
What Fox has done with Zweihander is not significantly different from OSE, Swords & Wizardry or any number of retroclones out there.

Also, there are still plenty of places to get pirated stuff out there, and The Trove was never the best, nor the most comprehensive. Its download speed was shit.

Nope, because the retroclones added their own thing. Zweihander hasn't. It literally just removed all the copyrighted names and then everything else is literally word for word as it is in the WHFRP book. Check it yourself.

To your first claim, I'm curious as to what you think OSE "added"? Or Swords & Wizardry, for that matter?

As to your second claim, which I assumed was hyperbolic until I saw that you had used the term, "literally", er, no. I own and have read WFRP and Zweihander, and while the latter is obviously and admittedly based off of the former, it is not "word for word". It's nearly double the length, for cryin' out loud. Zweihander uses a different damage system, a "track" instead of a hit-point like system. It handles Armor differently. It handles Magic differently. There are more Combat options. There are differences in Character generation, the way it handles Careers, and on and on.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on July 14, 2022, 11:02:37 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 12, 2022, 01:55:28 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 12, 2022, 01:24:04 PM
Good. Fuck Daniel Fox. Do you think I should send him pirated copies of Zweihander?

That's the RPG about male German models, right?

I would literally play a Zoolander pun RPG a thousand times more than the Warhammer knockoff omnibus by Daniel Fox.

I mean, "pop culture pun" is basically the extent of your writing/design capability, so that tracks.

Why would someone go on the Internet and tell lies? It's LITERALLY identical with the lore, setting info, and names taken out.

You're either taking the piss or you LITERALLY have no idea wtf you're talking about. Take your own advice and read one or both of those games. Also still waiting on an answer ast to what OSE/S&W "add"...

I don't owe you an answer. Look it up yourself. And yeah, the book is LITERALLY identical (okay, the typeset and some of the art is different). Passages that are lifted verbatim from WHFRP are a constant fixture. You need to check it again, LITERALLY read the two texts side by side. Or just run it through a plagiarism checker.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 12:38:01 PM
As to your second claim, which I assumed was hyperbolic until I saw that you had used the term, "literally", er, no. I own and have read WFRP and Zweihander, and while the latter is obviously and admittedly based off of the former, it is not "word for word". It's nearly double the length, for cryin' out loud. Zweihander uses a different damage system, a "track" instead of a hit-point like system. It handles Armor differently. It handles Magic differently. There are more Combat options. There are differences in Character generation, the way it handles Careers, and on and on.

A friend has a copy and I've read quite a bit of it.  I agree that it is NOT a "derivative work" of WFRPG at all.

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 06:31:15 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 05:29:26 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 04:56:31 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 12:38:01 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 11:46:35 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 09:33:53 AM
What Fox has done with Zweihander is not significantly different from OSE, Swords & Wizardry or any number of retroclones out there.

Also, there are still plenty of places to get pirated stuff out there, and The Trove was never the best, nor the most comprehensive. Its download speed was shit.

Nope, because the retroclones added their own thing. Zweihander hasn't. It literally just removed all the copyrighted names and then everything else is literally word for word as it is in the WHFRP book. Check it yourself.

To your first claim, I'm curious as to what you think OSE "added"? Or Swords & Wizardry, for that matter?

As to your second claim, which I assumed was hyperbolic until I saw that you had used the term, "literally", er, no. I own and have read WFRP and Zweihander, and while the latter is obviously and admittedly based off of the former, it is not "word for word". It's nearly double the length, for cryin' out loud. Zweihander uses a different damage system, a "track" instead of a hit-point like system. It handles Armor differently. It handles Magic differently. There are more Combat options. There are differences in Character generation, the way it handles Careers, and on and on.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on July 14, 2022, 11:02:37 AM

Quote from: Reckall on July 12, 2022, 01:55:28 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 12, 2022, 01:24:04 PM
Good. Fuck Daniel Fox. Do you think I should send him pirated copies of Zweihander?

That's the RPG about male German models, right?

I would literally play a Zoolander pun RPG a thousand times more than the Warhammer knockoff omnibus by Daniel Fox.

I mean, "pop culture pun" is basically the extent of your writing/design capability, so that tracks.

Why would someone go on the Internet and tell lies? It's LITERALLY identical with the lore, setting info, and names taken out.

You're either taking the piss or you LITERALLY have no idea wtf you're talking about. Take your own advice and read one or both of those games. Also still waiting on an answer ast to what OSE/S&W "add"...

I don't owe you an answer. Look it up yourself. And yeah, the book is LITERALLY identical (okay, the typeset and some of the art is different). Passages that are lifted verbatim from WHFRP are a constant fixture. You need to check it again, LITERALLY read the two texts side by side. Or just run it through a plagiarism checker.

The thing is, I do own all of these games, I HAVE looked, and I don't see any evidence of what you're talking about. And it looks like I'm not the only one. You're the one making the claims. You can refuse to support your claims, but that just underscores the fact that you're talking out of your ass. Feel free to post some screenshots, I'll wait. My guess is that you won't, because you're either dumb or dishonest, and haven't bothered to do the legwork that you're asking others to do, which some of us have actually done.

Talk about a Leopards Ate My Face moment.

It was inevitable, really. I'm only surprised it didn't happen sooner.

Quote from: DocJones on July 14, 2022, 06:34:30 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 12:38:01 PM
As to your second claim, which I assumed was hyperbolic until I saw that you had used the term, "literally", er, no. I own and have read WFRP and Zweihander, and while the latter is obviously and admittedly based off of the former, it is not "word for word". It's nearly double the length, for cryin' out loud. Zweihander uses a different damage system, a "track" instead of a hit-point like system. It handles Armor differently. It handles Magic differently. There are more Combat options. There are differences in Character generation, the way it handles Careers, and on and on.

A friend has a copy and I've read quite a bit of it.  I agree that it is NOT a "derivative work" of WFRPG at all.

Greetings!

Hey DocJones! Very interesting! I'm not surprised, really. I always assumed that Zweihander was simply *inspired* by WFRP. All of the internet people claiming that Daniel Fox *stole everything from WFRP* or copied it entirely, or otherwise, somehow, "Ripped Off WFRP!" are just jealous crybabies that Daniel Fox was inspired by WFRP, and created a new game book and system that raked in *trainloads of money* and made Daniel Fox very successful and prominent--far more so than many of his critics that have always bitterly gnashed their teeth in envy.

And no, I am not a fan of Daniel Fox, nor have I even purchased Zweihander.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 06:31:15 PM
I don't owe you an answer. Look it up yourself. And yeah, the book is LITERALLY identical (okay, the typeset and some of the art is different). Passages that are lifted verbatim from WHFRP are a constant fixture. You need to check it again, LITERALLY read the two texts side by side. Or just run it through a plagiarism checker.

Plagiarism is a pretty serious accusation that can have career-ending implications. It's not something you make without evidence to back it up. I'd consider it hyperbole without some citations.

Also, if Mr. Zorro really did "literally" plagiarize the text of WFRP (and Zweihander's been out for about 5 years now), do you really not think that Games Workshop or Cubicle 7 would have sued the shit out of him already? If it's that obvious surely their lawyers would have discovered the same thing after this much time.

I have zero love for the guy. He's a major troll and a cancer on the hobby, but there's a wide gulf between being a dick and a hack and what you're accusing him of.

Didn't he get into some legal issues with C7/GW because he bought WarhammerFantasyRoleplay (or some such) as a domain and had it link to his knockoff's website?

Quote from: Tubesock Army on July 14, 2022, 06:44:47 PM
SNIP

Oh no no no. It's on you to disprove me. You take the time to dig it up - I have better things to do than to read plagiarism committed by a hack.

Quote from: Snark Knight on July 14, 2022, 07:32:07 PM
Didn't he get into some legal issues with C7/GW because he bought WarhammerFantasyRoleplay (or some such) as a domain and had it link to his knockoff's website?

Quote from: Mad Tom on July 14, 2022, 07:17:42 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 06:31:15 PM
I don't owe you an answer. Look it up yourself. And yeah, the book is LITERALLY identical (okay, the typeset and some of the art is different). Passages that are lifted verbatim from WHFRP are a constant fixture. You need to check it again, LITERALLY read the two texts side by side. Or just run it through a plagiarism checker.

Plagiarism is a pretty serious accusation that can have career-ending implications. It's not something you make without evidence to back it up. I'd consider it hyperbole without some citations.

Also, if Mr. Zorro really did "literally" plagiarize the text of WFRP (and Zweihander's been out for about 5 years now), do you really not think that Games Workshop or Cubicle 7 would have sued the shit out of him already? If it's that obvious surely their lawyers would have discovered the same thing after this much time.

I have zero love for the guy. He's a major troll and a cancer on the hobby, but there's a wide gulf between being a dick and a hack and what you're accusing him of.

Quote from: drayakir on July 14, 2022, 07:57:53 PM
Oh no no no. It's on you to disprove me. You take the time to dig it up - I have better things to do than to read plagiarism committed by a hack.

The burden of proof falls on the accuser. That's how things work in the grownup world.<sup>*

_{*</sup>He says, on a message board about elf-games.}