I've never played ANY Star Wars games, even though I love the movies.
My brother suggested we pick up the new Edge of Empire game to play sometime. I am leery because
a) these guys were charging to play their betas and
b) Are they seriously trying to sell me a Star Wars game without Jedi? (none in the first book, or so I have heard and who knows when the others will be out).
c) 400+ pages & one of 3 coming books meaning I might be looking at 1200 pages of core rules/setting is not that attractive to me.
Everything I hear is that the old d6 Star Wars games were good. But I now nothing about which versions are better/what changed/what each one does best. Sell me on your favourite version.
It's been a while since I played it, but I believe the big differences were with vehicles and such. (I only had 2E, though I own pretty much every supplement for the game, in any version))
But the core is all the same, and very simple, if hard on people who can't count/add.
You have abilities and skills rated by a number of dice and pips. Like 2D is 2 dice, 4D+2 is 4 dice and 2 pips (2 pips is as high as it goes). And the target number varies on difficulty, topping out at 31, but usually much lower.
But abilities go from 2D to 4D (5D for aliens, like Wookiees are strong, so they can have a 5D strength) and then skills are based on abilities, so they add to them, like a dexterity is used for blaster, so someone might have a 4D Dex, then his blaster starts at 4D and you can add pips/dice to it raising it.
But the D6 books are free, download those and see. That's pretty much based on the last version of d6 SW
The Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game is one of the best starter games ever created and the Star Wars RPG, Revised and Expanded is also great. Both are d6 and can be found on Amazon.com.
If you like, I do have extra copies of both that I am willing to part with. Just PM me.
I rather prefer first edition. Honestly, simple and flavorful.
Quote from: jeff37923;643505The Star Wars Introductory Adventure Game is one of the best starter games ever created and the Star Wars RPG, Revised and Expanded is also great. Both are d6 and can be found on Amazon.com.
If you like, I do have extra copies of both that I am willing to part with. Just PM me.
I might do that if it looks like we decide to go with that option. I think my brother still wants to talk me into Edge of the Empire since his friend likes it.
Thank you.
whichever edition you go with you can supplement it with things from D Space, which is free now.
If you want original trilogy Jedi go with 1e.
If you want prequel Jedi go with 2e.
The Jedi in 2e have a tendency to be overpowered compared to other characters so you have to craft adventures with that in mind. Everything else is cosmetic. Ran Star Wars WEG for years and I can't recommend it enough.
Pete
I have more experience with the 1st edition and consider it superior. I think the second one is just more... finicky. It adds a whole bunch of things that are individually small but add up in complexity, and for every good addition there are several that either fail to improve or downright hinder the game. And in the meantime, the added complexity slowly erodes the quick, action-oriented, flowing feel of Star Wars.
Quote from: Silverlion;643511I rather prefer first edition. Honestly, simple and flavorful.
Sums it up nicely for me.
Quote from: zarathustra;643495Everything I hear is that the old d6 Star Wars games were good. But I now nothing about which versions are better/what changed/what each one does best. Sell me on your favourite version.
Make sure you get the Second Edition, Revised version. The revised version cleaned up a lot of stuff.
d6 Star Wars is the only Star Wars game Ive wanted to play. I know the d20 version was popular, but the complexity it inherited from the 3.x era made me feel like SW was shoe-horned into a system it didn't match.
d6 isn't perfect, sure. But being able to split up dice pools, using force points, and the detrimental effect of classic "going the dark side" make it a great system.
Quote from: Lynn;643592Make sure you get the Second Edition, Revised version. The revised version cleaned up a lot of stuff.
d6 Star Wars is the only Star Wars game Ive wanted to play. I know the d20 version was popular, but the complexity it inherited from the 3.x era made me feel like SW was shoe-horned into a system it didn't match.
d6 isn't perfect, sure. But being able to split up dice pools, using force points, and the detrimental effect of classic "going the dark side" make it a great system.
You don't really tell me why 2e is best, I guess splitting die pools & darkside is there..?
I'd probably chose second edition, although it contains a couple of things I really hate (like skill specializations)
Quote from: zarathustra;643797You don't really tell me why 2e is best, I guess splitting die pools & darkside is there..?
2e Revised & Expanded. There was a 2e book (Vader cover). Revised & Expanded has the Millennium Falcon on it.
Here's a list of changes between 2e and Revised and Expanded (http://www.rancorpit.com/swrules.shtml). Also note this link goes to the Rancor Pit site which has its own forums for Star Wars WEG.
It has been a long time since I made the switch, however between 1 & 2 E&R you have a nice index, revised character templates and errata.
The 1st edition books are a bit easier to find and cheaper than 2 E&R.
I'll echo everyone who said 2e added a bunch of finicky cruft to the game.
Go with 1e, it's the game before gamers got a hold if it :D
1st edition all the way. Dripping with atmosphere and great presentation. It will make you forget the prequels ever happened.
I think it is easy to over state the differences between the WEG Star Wars editions. Bear in mind the whole thrust of the D6 system is to about quick and easy play rather than detailed, realistic simulation. As such agonising over minor rules variations seems to miss the point.
The most visible one is probably the Wild Die. Some people like it, some don't either way it's just as easy to import the Wild Die into the 1st edition Star Wars or ban it from 2nd edition games.
I personally prefer the 1st edition for the reasons other posters mention, it's simpler, packed with flavour and true classic. And while not relevant to this discussion, it also does a great job of easing a new GM into the hobby; it still works as the best beginner game out there.
The 2nd edition revisited is arguably more complete and address a few of the bugs at the cost of a little more complexity, but it's pretty marginal. To be honest it is a great choice as well.
If your crew likes D20, the Saga Edition is quite good.
But the best Star Wars RPG is D6 1e. Pure awesome.
Star Wars, 2nd Edition and Star Wars, 2nd Edition Revised and Expanded can be used with Star Wars, 1st Edition with only minor adjustments. The rules are effectively the same, except when it deals with different scales.
However, since it is popular now to proclaim that everything older is better, of course the 1st edition is better than the 2nd edition revised and expanded.
There is less difference between these editions of the d6 Star Wars games then there are between the editions of the d20 Star Wars games.
Quote from: TristramEvans;6438461st edition all the way. Dripping with atmosphere and great presentation. It will make you forget the prequels ever happened.
What prequels?
Quote from: CRKrueger;643933What prequels?
I dunno, some Ewok films on TV in the 80s I guess.
Quote from: jeff37923;643880However, since it is popular now to proclaim that everything older is better, of course the 1st edition is better than the 2nd edition revised and expanded.
Regardless of how much your wit burns I'm actually struggling to come up with an example of a game where I like the later versions more than the first. In much the same way that sequels rarely measure up to the original (there are of course exceptions)
I could probably wank on about the integrity of vision, the corrupting influence of costumers and the like but I don't have it in me today.
1e was a simpler system than either 2e or 2eR.
Whether that's a feature or a bug, matters on personal taste.
Personally, I prefer that's there's one "Starship Piloting" skill, rather than "Space Transports", "Starfighter Piloting", and "Archaic Starship Piloting".
Quote from: Novastar;6439991e was a simpler system than either 2e or 2eR.
Whether that's a feature or a bug, matters on personal taste.
Personally, I prefer that's there's one "Starship Piloting" skill, rather than "Space Transports", "Starfighter Piloting", and "Archaic Starship Piloting".
That's the category I fall into as well. Looks like I'd prefer 1e Star Wars or D6Space then, I think.
Quote from: Spinachcat;643873If your crew likes D20, the Saga Edition is quite good.
But the best Star Wars RPG is D6 1e. Pure awesome.
I don't have 1st Edition D6. My group uses the Revised version, with the character points and other "fiddly stuff." It's still pretty nice, and I like the characters they put in the chapter headings to help explain stuff. It reinforces that Star Wars "feel" that the Wizards stuff lacks.
As for Saga, my main impression after reading it was that I liked the previous D20 Star Wars a lot more than I thought I did.
JG
Quote from: Novastar;6439991e was a simpler system than either 2e or 2eR.
Whether that's a feature or a bug, matters on personal taste.
Personally, I prefer that's there's one "Starship Piloting" skill, rather than "Space Transports", "Starfighter Piloting", and "Archaic Starship Piloting".
My feeling as well. But I think it is more than just the rules being cleaner - the
presentation of 1e is different (and I would argue superior in some ways).
The first edition felt more like the basic D&D boxed sets to me: written with the assumption that someone picking it up may have had no previous RPG experience. They present it more as "here's how to use a game to recreate the feel of the movies".
2e feels like a RPG written for RPGers. The assumption shifted to "here's some rules for a Star Wars RPG; play it like Traveller". It felt less to me about running larger than life heroes in an exciting, fast-paced adventure than it was playing the typical zero to hero RPG style campaign. The skill breakout is just one way they changed the tone - there was also things like getting rid of the "script immunity" concept, focusing on the smuggler campaign, etc.
I remember the ace pilot originally started with an x-wing (or similar), which was removed by the time revised and expanded came out. To say I was annoyed when the GM (who wanted to use R&E rules) said my ace pilot would be stuck piloting the smuggler's freighter was an understatement.
Quote from: James Gillen;644022As for Saga, my main impression after reading it was that I liked the previous D20 Star Wars a lot more than I thought I did.
I like Saga for the character level stuff, but I have to admit, I liked RCR's space combat system a whole lot more.
I still like 1e WEG's d6 better than all of them (with my House Rules, of course).
WEG 1e.
This doesn't help the OP, but I hacked WEG Star wars 2E R&E into D6Legend several years ago, and along with some house rules for Jedi powers it made the game system fly.
Quote from: daniel_ream;644182This doesn't help the OP, but I hacked WEG Star wars 2E R&E into D6Legend several years ago, and along with some house rules for Jedi powers it made the game system fly.
Can you give us a rundown of your Jedi powers hack?
It's been a while and I don't have the files any more, so I'm working form memory here.
The major problems we wanted to solve were Jedi getting too powerful too quickly, Force Powers being too complicated and taking too long to resolve, and Force Powers being too wu xia instead of the relatively low-powered zen samurai/Bene Gesserit tricks they are in the original trilogy.
First off, I know we increased the cost of Force skills. I think we costed them out as Attributes instead of skills, for both purchase and advancement.
Second, we kept the three Force skills (Sense, Control and Alter) and their definitions, but every Force Power uses one and only one Force skill roll to resolve - none of this rolling buckets of dice three times to resolve a simple Jedi mind trick.
Third, we threw out almost all of the Jedi powers in favour of the following system: Force skills add their dice to whatever skill you want to use the Force with. Luke jumps out of the carbonite freezing pit? Jumping + Control. Bullseye womp rats in your T-42 skyhopper? Vehicle Blasters + Sense. His friend doesn't like you, and he doesn't like you either? Melee Combat + Control. These aren't the droids they're looking for? Con + Alter.
Force powers that aren't an obvious extension of an existing skill - such as finding someone's lack of faith disturbing - roll just the Force Skill dice.
Jedi that want to specialize in a particular Force Power can take it as a skill, like Lightsaber Combat or Force Lightning. This should be reserved for those Force Powers that can't be mimicked with an existing skill, as there's no real reason to buy up Jedi Mind Trick instead of Con since they cost the same.
Yeah, that sounds pretty smooth.
JG
Combined with the D6Legend mechanics (briefly, every die has 4 "success" sides and 2 "failure" sides, failures cancel successes, quality of result is defined by net successes, for opposed rolls your successes cancel the other guy's) it made dice resolution go so quickly we took some time to adjust. Many of us were so used to heavyweight mechanics systems that we felt we were missing something.
Once we got used to it, though - I'd never go back to vanilla WEG. And it's so easy to get custom dice milled these days.
Yeah, Force Powers were my only gripe in 1e.
Which, I just made everything work off a "Force" Attribute, with the three skills of Control, Sense, and Alter. Whenever it 'affected' another creature, you rolled the "Force" attribute against their relevant attribute/skill.
i.e. Mind Trick: Obi-wan tells them, "These aren't the Droids you're looking for..."; he rolls Alter for the difficulty (not a hard lie, but in direct contradiction to the stormtrooper's orders, so say DC:20), then rolls his "Force" dice (4d) versus the troopers Perception (2d), hence why you should only use it "on the weak-minded", as Jabba's 5d Perception makes him resistant to persuasion with the Force (without having to make the ENTIRE Hutt race strangely resistant to the Force).