that's what happens when you change your avatar!

If I can be convinced stacking and special abilities are this easy, by god I'd run d20 again.

Quote from: Christmas ApeIf I can be convinced stacking and special abilities are this easy, by god I'd run d20 again.

I found that most of the time stacking doesn't bite me during NPC creation, but during play. Most class abilities work nicely together, it's usually more trouble to write them all down and keep minding that your self-built swashbuckling fighter has evasion, too. But once the spells start flying...

Some games make it easier. The aforementioned Conan is probably one of the easiest games. Not many class options, no loads of special abilities that would change the game play that much if you actually used them. Almost no spells, so no complex saving throws to keep track off. Attack bonus and hit points is all you need. And even with that you can keep it challenging, as the gang-up bonuses are pretty useful. Just add a few picts more...

Getting a decent humanoid encounter for a group of 12th level Forgotten Realms PCs is totally different...

Quote from: SosthenesI found that most of the time stacking doesn't bite me during NPC creation, but during play. Most class abilities work nicely together, it's usually more trouble to write them all down and keep minding that your self-built swashbuckling fighter has evasion, too. But once the spells start flying...

Well yeah...actual play would be the problem to track. I can use the little DMG table when I'm prepping.

QuoteSome games make it easier. The aforementioned Conan is probably one of the easiest games. Not many class options, no loads of special abilities that would change the game play that much if you actually used them. Almost no spells, so no complex saving throws to keep track off. Attack bonus and hit points is all you need. And even with that you can keep it challenging, as the gang-up bonuses are pretty useful. Just add a few picts more...

Getting a decent humanoid encounter for a group of 12th level Forgotten Realms PCs is totally different...

I dunno...my players seem to like their magic powers. I do have a conundrum.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadI do something like this:

Best skill = level + 3.
Other skills. Less. Probably 1/2 or 0 unless I am feeling finicky.
Assume +2 stat modifier for stat corresponding to best skill, +0-+1 for others.

Yea, just assume the standard skills for a class.  Unless it's a special NPC, use stats of 14, 12, 10, 10, 10, 10, for run of the mill NPCs, put the +2 and +1 bonus in the obvious places.  For faster play, try to use no-brainer feats, that have a constant effect instead of ones where you have a tactical choice (for the grunts anyway).

Along what richforest said, there are lots of online items that have stats.  You can download for free pdfs of the stats cards from D&D minis - the rpg side can be printed out, written on during play, and tossed when done.  Between all of the sets there are a few hundred sets of stats. Get them here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20070118b

I also use character generators that are quick.  I prefer Jamis Buck's because you can set up the guidelines and make a dozen versions of them in less than a minute.  If it's an important NPC, I'll make a few and then edit the one I like.  for unimportant ones, I use them as is.
get it here: http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi

But really, you can fudge quite a bit.  If a stat or two is off by 1 or 2, it's unlikely to make any difference.  For spellcasters, assume a couple of standard defensive spells in place, then choose 3 spells, including at least one of their highest level.  If they live long enough to cast more, assume they have multiple copies of the chosen ones or wing it.

Quote from: Christmas ApeI dunno...my players seem to like their magic powers. I do have a conundrum.

Well, the Gordian Knot of all that's troublesome in 3E is the cleric. He just gained lots of buffing power in the new edition, and with the combination of metamagic, player-accessible item creation and spontaneous healing, he's able to actually pull it off.

My current D20 game doesn't have much clerics (at least on the player's side), and it's really a lot easier to handle. Healing gets a bit more complicated, but that's easily alleviated by a few minor items and a small change in tactics.

IMHO even with the rather flexible domain system, the 3E cleric is a huge step down from the AD&D specialty priests. As a quick fix, I recommend eliminating some spells, cancel spontaneous healing and changing the cleric to the Unearthed Arcana cloistered variant, multi-classing for gods who need more combat ability. Then maybe add some other methods of hit point regeneration, either reserve points (i.e. another "stack" of hit points, which players can swap _after_ combats) or the "second wind" from Star Wars Saga (once a day a player can spend an action to get back 25% of hits hp or his con stat --whichever is higher).

This is actually still relevant to the subject of the thread. Preparing spellcasters with lots of buffing is quite a task. It's a huge difference if the bad guy can spend 5 rounds to load up on spells or if he casts his first when the PCs enter the room.

I'm not a big fan of pre-fight buffing. Careful preparation might be tactically interesting, but certainly not very heroic. Being laden with a dozen different magical auras before even entering initiative doesn't exactly lead to fast combats.

Options are nice, but the sheer amount of it in D20 makes me look for good arguments to sell my group C&C sometimes

This is what I loved about the Fangs book that came in the old RQ2 box - loads and loads of NPC stats printed up without description, ready to be parachuted into your game at a moment's notice. I kind of wish games still had that kind of thing - or at least a decent system to whip up NPCs at a moment's notice.

It's a difficult tradeoff between options and simplicity. If you've got a game with only a handful of game stats and not many relations between them (i.e. level limits), then it's easy to whip up an instant NPC. Games like D20, Gurps or Shadowrun are a bit more difficult in this regard.

Spycraft 2.0 and Iron Heroes have some interesting options. The first uses a more generic character creation system for the mooks, the latter has classes  that are specifically tailored to the usual villain roles.

Quote from: WarthurThis is what I loved about the Fangs book that came in the old RQ2 box - loads and loads of NPC stats printed up without description, ready to be parachuted into your game at a moment's notice. I kind of wish games still had that kind of thing - or at least a decent system to whip up NPCs at a moment's notice.

That's the universally lauded bit of the StarCluster games. Even reviewers who disliked the system gave the NPC section glowing praise. I put a lot of tools in there to whip up NPCs fast. That's because I'm a seat-of-the-pants GM and dislike working up NPCs. I've found if you put a lot of work into NPCs, you have a big temptation to nudge the PCs into meeting them, lest your work go to waste, which goes against my sandbox ethic.

-clash

Yeah, spells is the only thing that, to me, seems to make stacking a problem. In other d20 games that feature fewer (or no) spells or no buffs, at least, I never see it come up. Most other modifiers are the type that you can tell if they stack or not before play.

Stacking, like anything else can be fudged.  Pre-fight prep?  Give a +2 to +x bonus on appropriate stats, where X = NPC level.

If somebody manages to take down a buff spell through dispel tactics or the like, just chop off an appropriate seeming y, where y = some fudged number that seems right.  If you can't guesstimate, then knock off a +2.

The PCs aren't going to know where pre-combat buff bonuses came from, most times, as all you have to tell them is the magic school if they're detecting.  Most times that's going to be transmutation or what's the protection one?  Abjuration, or somesuch.

The biggest tool in your arsenal, Doc, is familiarity with the system, because that allows you to make more realistic guesstimates when fudging. And that only comes with time and experience.  Luckily, it's only bound to get easier.

Quote from: RedFoxStacking, like anything else can be fudged.  Pre-fight prep?  Give a +2 to +x bonus on appropriate stats, where X = NPC level.

Sorry, oh almighty fox spirit, but that makes my emotional life go all badwrong-y. It's not simply fudging stuff, it's abusing the DM's power. The players  probably spent considerable amount of time before or during the game to get their characters right, their buff spells up and their battle cries ready and just because the DM doesn't have to show his cards, he doesn't have to play by the rules? In a less crunchy game, I might roll with that, but for the typical D&D round it seems unfair.

If you're really able to guesstimate the usual bonus spreads, you should be able to apply some real spells on the fly. If the DM didn't prepare enough so that he can this surprised, it shouldn't just be made right by doing wrong.

Personally, I don't think its any more harder to come up with a less abstract way of improvising. Most experienced DMs should be able to apply some of the more common buffs on-the-fly. Attribute boosts, (un)hallow, prayer etc.
If you want to apply something beyond that, pay for your lack of preparation: turn the bonus into a magic item. So you don't have the time to look up the correct spell resistance bonus the eponymous spell would grant him and don't know which slot to use for that? Then the bonus comes from an item the player could use afterwards, too. One with charges, probably. Magical items show a wider spread of effects than spells, and you can fudge with the caster levels a bit more.

Or make it an area effect. The room where the party surprised the evil cleric Impromptu, servant of Awshuckswhatnow, has a huge column in the middle, where an aura of evil emanates from a shiny jewel. Destroy that and the aura is gone.

Improvising is good, but a simple numbers game without any backing up doesn't reward the players enough.

Quote from: SosthenesSorry, oh almighty fox spirit, but that makes my emotional life go all badwrong-y.

How sad for you.

My suggestion would be for you not to fudge that way.

Oh, I'm so sensitive and fragile, even the thought that someone else does that sends me out the door, shouting my lament to the world in a musical number...

Now where did I put my boater and my walking stick?

Damned curmudgeons.  I wish they'd get off my damned lawn.