At work today, I started thinking about the pricing of spell-based magic items (notably scrolls, potions, and wands, but also many items in other categories). In an earlier thread, I complained about the low price of wands of cure light wounds, especially compared to more high-powered wands (a wand of CLW costs about 2.7 gp per hp healed, while a wand of CMW costs 7.5 gp per hp and a wand of CSW costs 12.2 gp per hp).
Anyway, I started thinking about the price of "spell" items compared to "bonus" items. Spell items are normally priced as Spell level * Caster level * constant, while bonus items are priced as bonus^2 * constant. Since most items are made at minimum caster level by primary spellcasters (wizards, clerics, or druids), CL is equal to 2*SL-1. This in turn means that spell items cost (2*SL^2 - SL) * constant. For spells of a 2nd or higher level, that's between 1.5 and 1.9 times the factor for a normal bonus item.
What I am considering is to make spell items with the "standard" casting level cost (spell level)^2 * constant. This would lead to the following item costs:
[b]Level L^2 scroll potion wand use-activated[/b]
1 1 25 50 750 2 000
2 4 100 200 3 000 8 000
3 9 225 450 6 750 18 000
4 16 400 800 12 000 32 000
5 25 625 1 250 18 750 50 000
6 36 900 1 800 27 000 72 000
7 49 1 225 2 450 36 750 98 000
8 64 1 600 3 200 48 000 128 000
9 81 2 025 4 050 60 750 162 000
Items made with non-standard caster levels would have costs in proportion to their base costs (e.g. a CL 8 wand of fireball would cost 8/5 times as much as the base version, or 1.6*6,750 = 10,800).
So, anyone got an opinion on this?
Use activated means one time per day, correct or does it mean once a round? My brain is foggy and i want to make sure.
Use-activated is normally at-will. If it has daily uses, each use costs 20% of the listed cost.
So, for 2000gp I can cast Cure Light Wounds (heal 1d8 + 1) every round?
I go with that option and never use the others. :)
Seriously. If I can do even a single point of healing per combat round, that is all I ever need out of combat to recover, it would be like shareable fast healing for the party.
One of D&D's limitations is that while the spells may be balanced inside of combat, some spells are unstoppable out of combat if you can do them once every 6 seconds. The magic item creation rules, as far as I know, don't handle this well.
Who wouldn't pay 50,000gp if they had it for a item that lets you teleport once a round, every round, forever.
Decanter of Endless water and all its crazy world shattering uses is basically create water castable every round forever.
As to your actual topic, the table, I have no issue with anything except the cost for things you can do every round. Sadly, I have no suggestions on how to fix the problem.
How about a high daily use limit? While an "infinite CLW" would certainly be game breaking, one that can be used, say, 10 times per day might not be. That would also help to explain why people bother to make items of, for example, Cure Serious Wounds. If there's a daily limit on castings (or hourly or weekly or whatever) then it makes the higher-powered spell useful.
Quote from: Xavier LangOne of D&D's limitations is that while the spells may be balanced inside of combat, some spells are unstoppable out of combat if you can do them once every 6 seconds. The magic item creation rules, as far as I know, don't handle this well.
This is why there aren't really item creation "rules" - just "guidelines." You're supposed to look for items of similar power and price relative to them, use excessive DM fiat to balance items with greater-than-intended powers, etc. You're right, the system doesn't work very well.
And the best magic items don't match spells at all. There's nothing in the guidelines for unusual items, like bags of holding or the aparatus of kwalish. Those prices were just made up by the developers.
I'm sure you've all seen ridiculous attempts to take advantage of the "rules" as printed - like the Ring of True Strike. "It's just a first level spell!" :p Yeah, like any DM is going to let THAT one fly.
Quote from: Name LipsThis is why there aren't really item creation "rules" - just "guidelines." You're supposed to look for items of similar power and price relative to them, use excessive DM fiat to balance items with greater-than-intended powers, etc. You're right, the system doesn't work very well.
And the best magic items don't match spells at all. There's nothing in the guidelines for unusual items, like bags of holding or the aparatus of kwalish. Those prices were just made up by the developers.
I'm sure you've all seen ridiculous attempts to take advantage of the "rules" as printed - like the Ring of True Strike. "It's just a first level spell!" :p Yeah, like any DM is going to let THAT one fly.
I wish they would have dealt with more of the special cases if they were going to write up formula's that fail on the things the players want the most.
I had a player ask about the True Strike thing. He knew better when he asked, but it was only days after we got 3.0 so he felt he had to. :)
Quote from: Xavier LangSo, for 2000gp I can cast Cure Light Wounds (heal 1d8 + 1) every round?
My rules don't change the fact that the primary pricing rule for items is "The DM decides." The
rod of infinite healing doesn't become more possible just because the pricing guidelines change, when any DM worth his salt would nix that idea in the bud. The existing guidelines already allow for this item in theory, and at the same price (since it's a 1st level spell).
What it would do would be to change the price of items that are already allowed. For example, a pair of
winged boots casts
fly 3/day. With the old guidelines, the cost would be (3/5) * 3*5*1,800 (command word item) = 16,200. The DMG price is 16,000, so they just rounded it I guess. With the newer rules, they would cost (3/5) * 3^2 * 1,800 = 9,720 (round to 9,500 I guess).
Another example would be
eyes of charming that let the user cast a
charm person heightened to 4th level once per round. Old cost: 4*7*2,000 = 56,000 (matches the DMG's price). New cost: 4*4*2,000 = 32,000.
On one level, I'm considering doing this because "active" items are more fun in the game. By that, I mean that getting +4 to Strength is a neat and all, but once I have made the changes to my attack bonus, damage, weight allowance, and skills, I can pretty much forget about it. If I instead have an item that lets me cast a 7d6
orb of lightning three times per day (cost with my rules: about 17k, compared to the 16k of getting +4 Str), I get an additional option during the game (hit someone, or use my lightning rod), and more options are good.
However, I have noticed that when people make their characters from scratch, they generally tend to focus on straight bonus items rather than the more "fun" spell items. The only spell items I see most of the time tend to be wands/potions of healing, and the occasional scroll of a spell that's rarely used. But when I give out spell items in the course of play, the PCs seem happy to hold on to them rather than sell them off (at half price), which tells me that they're probably overpriced by a factor of somewhere between 1 and 2.
Quote from: Name LipsI'm sure you've all seen ridiculous attempts to take advantage of the "rules" as printed - like the Ring of True Strike. "It's just a first level spell!" :p Yeah, like any DM is going to let THAT one fly.
Actually, I wouldn't have any problem with a
ring of true strike that worked like the
bow of true arrows from Sword & Fist (basically, a wand with infinite charges). The limiting factor there is that using it takes an action, so you're giving up all your attacks for one round in exchange for one attack in the next round that is pretty certain to hit.
A ring that gave an automatic +20 to all attacks, though? That ain't gonna happen.
Check out the Artificer's Handbook.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=5130&
It has a formula for magic item creation.
The formula is based on the caster level and spell level. The rules presented also require a number of spell slots be temporarily consumed during the creation process, based on the type of item that it is, and the duration of the spell being utilized. Essentially, a spell that has a duration of hours per level is easier to place into a wondrous item than a spell that has a duration of just a few rounds.
The formula for determing the creation cost is:
10gp(spell level + caster level -1) * # of spell slots required^2.