(Mods: Since this is on the theoretical side, I put this in the RPG Discussion section rather than Design, Development, and Gameplay -- but please feel free to move it if I judged wrong.)

Opaopajr challenged me in a thread on Liches and Undead to write a supplement, and I've seen a pattern on the site of people lamenting lots of options for rules sets for OSR but fewer options for supplementary materials, settings, modules, etc.. I've wanted to dip my toe into game design and writing for a long time. I've been noodling on it, and set a goal for myself to have at least a complete draft of a short supplement of OSR-compatible content by 12/31 that's good enough that someone might actually want to play it.

Here's my catch: I read a lot more than I play. Like, a lot a lot more. So I'm nervous about producing content that will "make sense" when dropped into even roughly mutually compatible rulesets, and I am not sure how to do even basic suitability testing, especially without an OSR group. However, there's tons of experience here on the site, so I thought I'd go fishing for some thoughts.

For people who have written content already:

Here's some of the stuff I can think of to ask that would probably help me cut out some suckiness:

How do you test viability / playability? Any tips or heuristics for setting levels?

How do you test compatibility with various OSR systems? Do you have favorite "bookend" systems to test boundary of rules fit?

Can you share any pitfalls you've run into with mechanical glitches writing for OSR?

What's a reasonable expectation to get started? A few free documents/content sets in exchange for feedback? Paying playtesters? Feeding playtesters snacks? Bribing GMs to guinea pig their groups for you? Slapping it on the internet and praying for the best?

Any other advice for a n00b? Is there something I should've asked you that I didn't?

For people who run/play OSR content:

What meta-properties make content useful to you? What are some things that make a supplement easier or harder to use?

What content features save you the most prep time?

What content features give you headaches?

What do you wish content writers would stop doing?

What do you wish you could find in content?

Thank you all. Maybe I am over thinking this and should "just freakin' write", but if anyone has thoughts to share, shortcutting the amount of crap I produce before I get to something good sounds worthwhile. :cool:

For compatibility, I'd suggest either system-neutral, or target B/X or 0e. If you can make it work with B/X it'll be compatible with like 80% of OSR systems and easy to convert to the other 20% or 5E.

For things like Armor Class, you can keep it ambiguous, like "As Leather," or "As Plate," etc. That way you don't have to worry about stats for both ascending and descending AC systems.

For play testers you can ask around probably here, MeWe, Reddit and so forth. I used to see play test requests on G+ all the time. I'd guess offering a free PDF copy and possibly a play testing credit in the finished book will usually work.

Being it's an OSR supplement, my other advice would be not to overwrite. Be as concise and clear as you can. Unless you're writing a full campaign supplement keep it simple enough to drop/adapt into existing campaigns.

Do you run an OSR game/campaign?  Write material for the game you're running and you know the levels and have the playtesters.

I'm not specifically trying to discourage you from writing if you don't run games, but people who don't run games have a hard time writing material for those who do.  Reading games and running games are not the same.

Nothing beats "just freakin writing" - do lots and lots of that.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1106872How do you test viability / playability? Any tips or heuristics for setting levels?

Playtesting!!! You gotta put your perfect beautiful baby into the hands of the despicable scum known as players and then you must watch carefully as they chew up your perfect creation.

Then pick up the pieces, and rewrite...and then playtest some more.

As incentive, buy them pizza, put their dork name in the book and give them a free copy when its done.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1106872How do you test compatibility with various OSR systems? Do you have favorite "bookend" systems to test boundary of rules fit?

If you are making a generic "Old School" supplement, then your stats can be a tad fast and loose as the AD&D DM, the Castles & Crusades GM, and the Labyrinth Lord GM will each tailor the stats on the fly for their game.

Otherwise, if you want to make an OSRIC or LL or S&W supplement, make sure your product totally adheres to the rules and oddities of that one specific system.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1106872Can you share any pitfalls you've run into with mechanical glitches writing for OSR?

Generic OSR and fast & loose style doesn't fly with fans looking for something specific to one system.

As above, if you want to market it to OSRIC fans, they want your product to be 100% OSRIC compatible. If LL fans buy that same book, they know its tooled for OSRIC and treat it like a generic OSR work to tweak.

Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1106872What's a reasonable expectation to get started?

Expect to spend time and money you won't get back. Personally, if I were to try to sell a OSR adventure, I'd also do a 5e version and sell that one concurrently with the same art, flavor text, etc. AKA, maximize your audience and your ROI for your time and art expenses.

It is times like these that I miss the cheerleader emoji. I'll be cheering you on and helping as best I can! :cheerleader:

Quote from: Spinachcat;1106917As above, if you want to market it to OSRIC fans, they want your product to be 100% OSRIC compatible.

Honestly, I wouldn't go so far as this.  If you look at the various 1E boards, it isn't whether something is 100% OSRIC/1E or not, it's whether the product hits the tone and style of those games and the mechanics are generally compatible.  Melan's stuff isn't "100% OSRIC compatible", but it sells to a lot of people who do love 1E.

I do encourage play for this reason, and perhaps buying some PDFs of older material in a few different eras to see the differences in styles.  But ultimately, you have to write what comes naturally so don't even do that too much.

Quote from: Red Death;1106886For things like Armor Class, you can keep it ambiguous, like "As Leather," or "As Plate," etc. That way you don't have to worry about stats for both ascending and descending AC systems.

Instead of this I'd recommend writing for Swords & Wizardry, which includes both ascending & descending by default. Players of Labyrinth Lord & OSRIC will use the descending value; players of Basic Fantasy RPG will use the ascending value, and add 1 if they care about an exact match.

Quote from: S'mon;1106988Instead of this I'd recommend writing for Swords & Wizardry, which includes both ascending & descending by default. Players of Labyrinth Lord & OSRIC will use the descending value; players of Basic Fantasy RPG will use the ascending value, and add 1 if they care about an exact match.

While I agree with this, this also highlights a fairly big difference in OSR games - how much characters improve at combat. The armor type description was good for Lamentations of the Flame Princess, but characters are terrible at combat in that. OD&D characters are somewhat better, but still meant for armor classes to range from 9 to 2.  B/X ones (who basically have the same progression but have better ability modifiers) are a littler better, while AD&D characters have much better progression (and fighters might have weapon specialization) and are meant to use the whole scale, from 10 to -10 as they level.  (Meanwhile you have BECMI, which goes to level 36 and has weapon expertise, so ACs can range down to -30)

Write/design for what you know/like and if it's good enough to repurpose, OSR people will file off the serial numbers in a heartbeat (it's a basic skill). If you haven't run much recently, definitely get a game going somehow so you can do some playtesting. What reads well may not play well.

In general the OSR likes authenticity. People who have an idea of how they want to play and how to go about it. As long as the person is polite and don't come across that their way is better than anybody else.

For example I get some static for having skills in the form of my ability system for the Majestic Wilderlands. I explain that having some characters better at things outside of combat and spellcasting is an important element of my campaigns. That the ability system represents how I adjudicate the things character try to do outside of combat and spellcasting.

Just as important I used it and the other mechanics and setting ideas in various campaigns. Apparently it does come across in the writing and people pick up on it. So play what you write first and then revise accordingly.

Next point be comfortable with promoting yourself. You don't have to broadcast everywhere but start a blog, podcast or something on social media and post regularly. The goal is to have enough of an audience so that a 100 people would buy your work over the course of a year. That target while modest usually winds up feeling like you accomplished something with the extra time you put in honing your work. Regular posting will hone your writing skill and interacting with your audience will expose you to other viewpoints. And you get do this while you are writing and playing.

Also play nice with others. Just remember you are not dependent on anybody else within the OSR. There is nobody that you have to win the approval of aside from what required from the logistics of whatever distribution site (DriveThruRPG, Lulu, own website) you use. The OSR rests on a foundation of open content that anybody can use, like Swords & Wizardry, using digital tools that are accessible to people who only have their hobby time in which to publish.

As for mechanics, I use Swords & Wizardry Core Rules 2nd edition. For me this clone is the closest thing to a generic D&D that out there. Like mentioned earlier it uses both ascending and descending AC and it has some popularity in its own right.

I know it doesn't answer all your questions but hope it helps

Quote from: JeremyR;1106991While I agree with this, this also highlights a fairly big difference in OSR games - how much characters improve at combat. The armor type description was good for Lamentations of the Flame Princess, but characters are terrible at combat in that. OD&D characters are somewhat better, but still meant for armor classes to range from 9 to 2.  B/X ones (who basically have the same progression but have better ability modifiers) are a littler better, while AD&D characters have much better progression (and fighters might have weapon specialization) and are meant to use the whole scale, from 10 to -10 as they level.  (Meanwhile you have BECMI, which goes to level 36 and has weapon expertise, so ACs can range down to -30)

This is also why I'd advocate using B/X or 0E as a baseline because most OSR GM's can take it from there and make it work with their system. It's not like trying to convert 3e or 4e to another edition.

@insubordinate polyhedral

Since it looks like you're going for a bestiary/guide to the undead, you might want to check out the Old School Fantasy Roleplaying Humble Bundle going on now. There's a ton of good stuff in there (it's a great crash course on the OSR), but what may be particularly useful are the Swords & Wizardry Monstrosities and Tome of Horrors Complete PDFs.

Another book that might be worth a look is the Creature Compendium (free/PWYW). It's got stats for both 0e/1e and B/X.

Thank you all very much! This is great stuff!

Quote from: estar;1107024I know it doesn't answer all your questions but hope it helps

It's very helpful, thank you. I was throwing every question out there that I imagined would be smart to know going into this, I didn't expect everyone to answer everything.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1106954It is times like these that I miss the cheerleader emoji. I'll be cheering you on and helping as best I can! :cheerleader:

Thank you.