Hello everyone,
I have a question I've been wondering for a while that in the cWoD setting I wonder if there's other alternatives to Vampires especially which let's say if there's a post-ToJ/Gehenna (especially wormwood) setting where all Kindred are gone and the 'surviving' are now mortals (if wormwood was true), then it that world what would replace the Kindred/Vampires being the closest? Although I don't want to use KotE however (since I would like to ignore it's existence) though due to personal reasons. Also I wonder if there's other undead types other than Risen that plays the closest to Vampires?
Or basically, what if someone wanted to play a 'vampire' but they never liked how Masquerade presented them and what other alternatives can they go with? Can they create a 'different breed' or could a existing splat can mimic and pretend to be a vampire even though they're not?
Or in short: I wonder if there's Non-Caininte Vampires (Vampires that are not descended from Caine nor do they have the beast or the same physiology as Kindred or basically Vampires that exist outside the VTM monomyth all together) that exist in the cWoD or they have to be created?
I'm pretty sure there aren't, no...
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822396Or in short: I wonder if there's Non-Caininte Vampires (Vampires that are not descended from Caine nor do they have the beast or the same physiology as Kindred or basically Vampires that exist outside the VTM monomyth all together) that exist in the cWoD or they have to be created?
Kindred of the East are like that, non-Cainite vampires. In canon, they are exclusively Asian, but you could tweak that and make non-Asian versions.
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;822611Kindred of the East are like that, non-Cainite vampires. In canon, they are exclusively Asian, but you could tweak that and make non-Asian versions.
Or alternatively not use them at all especially if you consider their problematic elements (https://arsmarginal.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/kuei-jin-the-exotic/).
I think alternatives can be created if you stayed true to actual Taoist mythology where they can be instead "False Immortality Alchemy" created Vampires called for example "Gui-Xian" while standard Kindred also inhabit East Asia or everywhere else in the world.
Personally, I would use Ghouls.
Of course, you could check out Nightbane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightbane
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822671Or alternatively not use them at all especially if you consider their problematic elements (https://arsmarginal.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/kuei-jin-the-exotic/).
White Wolf used to be so much more interesting than it's current PC ass-suck.
We got tons of fun from Kindred of the East. Holy fuck, if KotE is "problematic" for players, just imagine how impossible walking outside must be for them!
WoD is fiction, and fiction has creative license. Is KotE an accurate portrayal of the supernatural myths from every (or any) Asian culture? Nope, its not, but that's not their job. I have never found any fiction that boasts "adherence to realism" or "historically accurate" or "sensitive to feelings" be as interesting as letting an author run with their vision.
Of course, creative license should be limited to fiction. Anything billing itself as non-fiction should be eschew all fictional elements.
The new WoD crew thinks its gonna save our souls from the Evil White Man, but maybe that's why I never see anyone running nWoD or cWoD at gatherings or cons. It's become SJW:the Bitching.
Quote from: Spinachcat;822677White Wolf used to be so much more interesting than it's current PC ass-suck.
We got tons of fun from Kindred of the East. Holy fuck, if KotE is "problematic" for players, just imagine how impossible walking outside must be for them!
WoD is fiction, and fiction has creative license. Is KotE an accurate portrayal of the supernatural myths from every (or any) Asian culture? Nope, its not, but that's not their job. I have never found any fiction that boasts "adherence to realism" or "historically accurate" or "sensitive to feelings" be as interesting as letting an author run with their vision.
Of course, creative license should be limited to fiction. Anything billing itself as non-fiction should be eschew all fictional elements.
The new WoD crew thinks its gonna save our souls from the Evil White Man, but maybe that's why I never see anyone running nWoD or cWoD at gatherings or cons.
"Fiction" is a subjective term and I think what you're simply forgetting the fact that KotE is not only built on Racism but also cultural appropriation and imperialism on East Asian cultures where white westerners (the writers of KotE) have this entitlement that they think any other culture/religion/etc other than theirs is up for grabs and turn them into their playthings at the expense of the cultures who originally owned them not to mention exoticism tries to 'other' Eastern Cultures which is one of the dynamics of Racism.
Quote from: Spinachcat;822677It's become SJW:the Bitching.
This is the part where you loose all credibility and probably not worth responding to which by the looks of things, you're most likely a GamerGate supporter which is nothing more than a harassment campaign against non-white males and their supporters in the gaming industry which quickly highlights what I'm talking about in the first place that problematic elements (sexism, racism, etc) exists in society therefore in the gaming industry in the first place very ironically enough.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822715"Fiction" is a subjective term and I think what you're simply forgetting the fact that KotE is not only built on Racism but also cultural appropriation and imperialism on East Asian cultures where white westerners (the writers of KotE) have this entitlement that they think any other culture/religion/etc other than theirs is up for grabs and turn them into their playthings at the expense of the cultures who originally owned them not to mention exoticism tries to 'other' Eastern Cultures which is one of the dynamics of Racism.
This is the part you loose all credibility and probably not worth responding to which by the looks of things, you're most likely a GamerGate supporter which is nothing more than a harassment campaign against non-white males and their supporters in the gaming industry which quickly highlights what I'm talking about in the first place that problematic elements (sexism, racism, etc) exists in society therefore in the gaming industry in the first place very ironically enough.
(http://somethingsensitive.com/Smileys/default/clint.png)
The only problematic element I see in relation to KotE is you.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822715This is the part where you loose all credibility and probably not worth responding to which by the looks of things, you're most likely a GamerGate supporter which is nothing more than a harassment campaign against non-white males and their supporters in the gaming industry which quickly highlights what I'm talking about in the first place that problematic elements (sexism, racism, etc) exists in society therefore in the gaming industry in the first place very ironically enough.
Fuck, you really don't have a clue, do you?
I miss the old days when frothing lunacy like this happened on street corners and illegible mimeographed flyers were thrust at you. Now it just seems so impersonal with the internet.
Quote from: Rincewind1;822718(http://somethingsensitive.com/Smileys/default/clint.png)
The only problematic element I see in relation to KotE is you.
"No U" arguments don't hold water you know.
Quote from: jeff37923;822719Fuck, you really don't have a clue, do you?
I miss the old days when frothing lunacy like this happened on street corners and illegible mimeographed flyers were thrust at you. Now it just seems so impersonal with the internet.
Who doesn't get the clue? Well Look whose talking now?
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822720"No U" arguments don't hold water you know.
That is correct, I'd gladly pass water over your posts.
Quote from: Rincewind1;822721That is correct, I'd gladly pass water over your posts.
Quite thank you, I'll drink it because all I drink is water.
*gulp*
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822715This is the part where you loose all credibility and probably not worth responding to which by the looks of things, you're most likely a GamerGate supporter which is nothing more than a harassment campaign against non-white males and their supporters in the gaming industry which quickly highlights what I'm talking about in the first place that problematic elements (sexism, racism, etc) exists in society therefore in the gaming industry in the first place very ironically enough.
Years ago I was once like you. I would had thought these guys are racist assholes and kept my mind shut. Then Anita Sarkeensian happen. At first I was piss off with all the a harassment she was receiving in her kickstarter. I was broke so I couldn't support her other than morale. So once she release her videos of course I went to youtube to watch them.
Problem is the more videos I watch the more I started to see something that is off. By the time I got to her legos video I wanted to see the other side of the argument. I want to know why they hated her. So I went to the most reasonable anti-Anita people. Not the trolls that harass her, but the critics that go after more important things.
What I learn was that Anita had all the power in her hands. At any moment she can just erase all the troll comments, block out all messages, and all these other things. In fact Anita been using these things all the time and only allowed troll comments so she can farm them and get people out rage. Why? She made 160K from that kickstarter alone.
So I went to warn people about that. Among them is David Hill who does world of darkness books. Let me put it this way. They fucking dog piled me and made me wake up with the truth. The truth is the group your in is fucking horrible and follow their dogma like a blind religious zealot. The very thing that social justice warriors say they despise.
So I left and went on a different path. Throughout the years I mostly remained silent and just focus on my own needs. It was finally when I went to this site that I became more vocal. I honestly felt like finally there are people that saw pass the bullshit like how I did.
Though I notice I was completely right in my hunch about Anita. She is a con artist. Evidence after evidence of her dishonesty, a confession from her, and a Anita supporter complaining about the theft of her art. The ultimate kicker was that Anita is nothing more than a mouth piece to John McIntosh. So there goes that strong independent woman who goes out calling for help when she feels like a victim. If you can call that strong and independent. I wouldn't, but I am just using logic.
So here is my warning. You can continue on the path your currently in like how I was. It only leads to pain and suffering as your group will dog pile on anyone they believe is "harmful" to the group. Trust me you will eventually be seen as a threat to them.
The other path you can go is to think for yourself and get out of your group. Not saying be a gamergate member. Hell it is not that important, but what is important is for you to think for yourself. The group your in doesn't care about you, but only see you as a useful fool. Once they see your no longer useful they will drop you like how they drop Brinna Wu. So for the love of all that is good do what is good for yourself. Think for yourself.
Quote from: Snowman0147;822731Years ago I was once like you. I would had thought these guys are racist assholes and kept my mind shut. Then Anita Sarkeensian happen. At first I was piss off with all the a harassment she was receiving in her kickstarter. I was broke so I couldn't support her other than morale. So once she release her videos of course I went to youtube to watch them.
Problem is the more videos I watch the more I started to see something that is off. By the time I got to her legos video I wanted to see the other side of the argument. I want to know why they hated her. So I went to the most reasonable anti-Anita people. Not the trolls that harass her, but the critics that go after more important things.
What I learn was that Anita had all the power in her hands. At any moment she can just erase all the troll comments, block out all messages, and all these other things. In fact Anita been using these things all the time and only allowed troll comments so she can farm them and get people out rage. Why? She made 160K from that kickstarter alone.
So I went to warn people about that. Among them is David Hill who does world of darkness books. Let me put it this way. They fucking dog piled me and made me wake up with the truth. The truth is the group your in is fucking horrible and follow their dogma like a blind religious zealot. The very thing that social justice warriors say they despise.
So I left and went on a different path. Throughout the years I mostly remained silent and just focus on my own needs. It was finally when I went to this site that I became more vocal. I honestly felt like finally there are people that saw pass the bullshit like how I did.
Though I notice I was completely right in my hunch about Anita. She is a con artist. Evidence after evidence of her dishonesty, a confession from her, and a Anita supporter complaining about the theft of her art. The ultimate kicker was that Anita is nothing more than a mouth piece to John McIntosh. So there goes that strong independent woman who goes out calling for help when she feels like a victim. If you can call that strong and independent. I wouldn't, but I am just using logic.
So here is my warning. You can continue on the path your currently in like how I was. It only leads to pain and suffering as your group will dog pile on anyone they believe is "harmful" to the group. Trust me you will eventually be seen as a threat to them.
The other path you can go is to think for yourself and get out of your group. Not saying be a gamergate member. Hell it is not that important, but what is important is for you to think for yourself. The group your in doesn't care about you, but only see you as a useful fool. Once they see your no longer useful they will drop you like how they drop Brinna Wu. So for the love of all that is good do what is good for yourself. Think for yourself.
Either you were uneducated on the issue or maybe you never were which made you quickly buy into invented wholecloth of GamerGate claims despite the fact I don't think anything you said actually has any proof or any evidence backing it up (unlike you may claim) since all you're repeating is simply mismash of dishonestly, lies and deceit which maybe I could try to debunk them all but in the end, it'll be a waste of time because you'll never care about them at all.
So what's the point?
I guess you made your choice on what path you want to go on.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822671Or alternatively not use them at all especially if you consider their problematic elements (https://arsmarginal.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/kuei-jin-the-exotic/).
I think alternatives can be created if you stayed true to actual Taoist mythology where they can be instead "False Immortality Alchemy" created Vampires called for example "Gui-Xian" while standard Kindred also inhabit East Asia or everywhere else in the world.
Look, you're the one who made a thread asking if there were non-Cainite vampires in the OWoD. I just answered your question. Even though I'm not crazy about the book, I'm not personally looking to fix Kindred of the East and I think all of the SJW hate for the book is a bit silly.
First:
As you may have ignored Spinachcat's actual advice on the matter, i'll just repeat it:
Use Ghouls.
Perhaps it is a good idea to tweak the rules a bit, and let some of them use rituals to make blood as potent as Vampire blood.
Now to the other matter:
I'm both pro Feminism, and pro GamerGate.
Yes I am.
Quote from: Catelf;822788Now to the other matter:
I'm both pro Feminism, and pro GamerGate.
Yes I am.
Watch out he may say you don't exist at all, or say your lying.
Quote from: Snowman0147;822792Watch out he may say you don't exist at all, or say your lying.
Or both!
I never paid much attention to White Wolf's canon. IMC, all the "Cainite" stuff was just mythology vamps told themselves with little actual evidence.
There's no reason you can't just use the mechanics of cWoD vampires and make up your own monster.
This reminds me to pick up Legacy of Blood about the Laibon. Some of my favorite cards from Jyhad's later CCG sets come from the sub-Saharan Africa kindred. Already have Veil of Night and Kindred of the East, and I'd totally recommend them as fun splats on their own. Good times, good times.
As to the OP's original question, the answer is no. Nope. No Storyteller system for you. :( Unfortunately you're going to have to play D&D Ravenloft or d6 Bloodshadows. Oh, and there's always the Mexican Vampire Kingdoms in RIFTS.
Quote from: Catelf;822788I'm both pro Feminism, and pro GamerGate.
How is that even possible? You can't be Pro-Feminism and Pro-GamerGate at the same time because they are incompatible.
Quote from: King Truffle IV;822804I never paid much attention to White Wolf's canon. IMC, all the "Cainite" stuff was just mythology vamps told themselves with little actual evidence.
Yet the evidence came into more and more to play with the week of nightmares, and eventually the entire Gehenna book that made WW end the oWoD and restarted it with the nWoD.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822849How is that even possible? You can't be Pro-Feminism and Pro-GamerGate at the same time because they are incompatible.
Because GamerGate never was about White beta male gamers against nonwhites nor women and girls.
It was and still is about corruption in gaming media.
The things that sparked it was merely the last straw, especially the "Games are dead" articles.
Essentially, listen to both sides.
Also, who wins if Feminists and Gamers fight?
Neither, except haters and those who would not want to see Feminists and Gamers cooperate.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822849Yet the evidence came into more and more to play with the week of nightmares, and eventually the entire Gehenna book that made WW end the oWoD and restarted it with the nWoD.
What King Truffle is referring to, is something that often is common among Games Masters:
As a GM, when the setting is changed beyond the regular setting, you enter a different setting, and in that one, you are in control.
You may tweak the rules as necessary, but it seems you don't want to do that, so I'll give you a few options:
* Malkavians survived, only thanks to their unpredictability.
* Some lesser mages developed rituals to turn their blood Potent, essentially gaining Blood Pools.
In a way, they would at least be similar to Tremere, but I recon they could use several different Disciplines, and would not be tied to their Elders.
Or, they could be more like Ghouls, but some are more powerful due to said rituals.
* Any remaining vampires are effectively Caitiff, Clanless.
Quote from: Catelf;822858Because GamerGate never was about White beta male gamers against nonwhites nor women and girls.
It was and still is about corruption in gaming media.
The things that sparked it was merely the last straw, especially the "Games are dead" articles.
Essentially, listen to both sides.
Also, who wins if Feminists and Gamers fight?
Neither, except haters and those who would not want to see Feminists and Gamers cooperate.
Like I'm fooled with your lies since everything you have said pretty much conflicts with reality.
If GamerGate is so concerned with "corruption in games media" and then why are they going after independent female game developers and female journalists not mainstream media? Especially sending them death & rape threats, doxxing them not to mention they been chaseing out out of their homes because they fear their lives? Is this what "ethics" is about and is this your "movement"?
You're missing the point that it has nothing to do with "ethics in games journalism" and never really was, it has been and always been a harassment campaign designed to silence women in the gaming industry which is why feminism and gamergate are incompatible in the first place.
Also as for the "Gamers are Dead" claim, I think you're simply taking it out of context and maybe you may need to read the article very carefully this time around: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php but then again you'll simply read it wrong and take it out of context which I don't think it's even worth it.
Also there is no "both sides" because I know the other side is full of shit (GamerGate that is) and it's simply you against the world.
If you're going to rant, please at least have the decency to do using something approaching proper grammar.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822872Like I'm fooled with your lies since everything you have said pretty much conflicts with reality.
If GamerGate is so concerned with "corruption in games media" and then why are they going after independent female game developers and female journalists not mainstream media? Especially sending them death & rape threats, doxxing them not to mention they been chaseing out out of their homes because they fear their lives? Is this what "ethics" is about and is this your "movement"?
You're missing the point that it has nothing to do with "ethics in games journalism" and never really was, it has been and always been a harassment campaign designed to silence women in the gaming industry which is why feminism and gamergate are incompatible in the first place.
Also as for the "Gamers are Dead" claim, I think you're simply taking it out of context and maybe you may need to read the article very carefully this time around: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php but then again you'll simply read it wrong and take it out of context which I don't think it's even worth it.
Also there is no "both sides" because I know the other side is full of shit (GamerGate that is) and it's simply you against the world.
You calling me a liar is an insult since I have only told you the truth.
The doxxing and so on was not done by GamerGaters, and if you believe that, it is still not true.
They are not "going after independent female game developers and female journalists", but if you refuse to see the truth, there is nothing more I can do.
You have your opinion, and I am not suited for convincing people with quotation or links, I mainly encourage people to think for themselves and search out the truth themselves.
Quote from: Catelf;822895You calling me a liar
Because you are
Quote from: Catelf;822895is an insult since I have only told you the truth.
It's only the "truth" inside your head.
Quote from: Catelf;822895The doxxing and so on was not done by GamerGaters, and if you believe that, it is still not true.
Because it is true, you're now in denial.
Quote from: Catelf;822895They are not "going after independent female game developers and female journalists", but if you refuse to see the truth, there is nothing more I can do.
Yes they are since reality says otherwise.
Quote from: Catelf;822895You have your opinion, and I am not suited for convincing people with quotation or links, I mainly encourage people to think for themselves and search out the truth themselves.
If you value the truth so much I advise you to look at the "movement" you blindly support and come back to me:
https://imgur.com/a/I2spf
If you support Feminism like you claim, then I would advise you to do a reality check and leave GamerGate immediately, otherwise I'm about done arguing with you.
To move away from Gamer Gate slightly and back to ghouls.
I think it might be neat if you're doing a post-vampire OWoD to use Revenant families. There are a number of Revenant families with their own themes, flavor, and power sets. You could add a few families to increase diversity and give them a boost in power. Then you have an entirely new OWoD game with a creature type with a variety of splats that can interact or conflict with each other in much the same way that Clans do.
I think it might even be interesting to have vampires disappear in the past, perhaps in the middle ages. Then you have a number of Revenant families still alive today with their own creation legends about what vampires were like.
You could make this into a well fleshed out setting/game line.
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;822907To move away from Gamer Gate slightly and back to ghouls.
I think it might be neat if you're doing a post-vampire OWoD to use Revenant families. There are a number of Revenant families with their own themes, flavor, and power sets. You could add a few families to increase diversity and give them a boost in power. Then you have an entirely new OWoD game with a creature type with a variety of splats that can interact or conflict with each other in much the same way that Clans do.
I think it might even be interesting to have vampires disappear in the past, perhaps in the middle ages. Then you have a number of Revenant families still alive today with their own creation legends about what vampires were like.
You could make this into a well fleshed out setting/game line.
Or maybe it's best to have Vampires disappear Post 2004? Also would Ghouls and Revenant Families be affected too by the Wormwood star or not?
Maybe the Risen can replace Vampires which all they have to do put Vampire fangs and they drink blood but not like they get any nourishment from it and of course I heard they can also learn Vampire disciplines but with the Vampires gone, would be the disciplines no longer be functionable anymore?
I guess my question is, what are your goals for the campaign? Why do you want to do a post-Wormwood campaign, and what themes are you trying to explore? Why is the existence of a vampire-like creature important to this endeavor?
My earlier point was to simply ignore canon altogether, and just use the rule books as a toolbox for what you want to do. If canon conflicts with what you want to do, then get rid of canon.
Also, this:
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;822907I think it might even be interesting to have vampires disappear in the past, perhaps in the middle ages. Then you have a number of Revenant families still alive today with their own creation legends about what vampires were like.
is brilliant.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822909Or maybe it's best to have Vampires disappear Post 2004? Also would Ghouls and Revenant Families be affected too by the Wormwood star or not?
Maybe the Risen can replace Vampires which all they have to do put Vampire fangs and they drink blood but not like they get any nourishment from it and of course I heard they can also learn Vampire disciplines but with the Vampires gone, would be the disciplines no longer be functionable anymore?
I guess it depends on how closely you want to stick to canon and the Gehenna book. Personally, I'm not that attached to any of the official Gehenna scenarios, so I wouldn't necessarily stick to it. Your mileage may vary. I kind of like the idea of vampires disappearing in the middle ages, so then you have some history to work with, but if you want to play post-apocalypse then you don't need to do that.
I think I would have the demise of the vampires strengthen Ghoul families. If you're going to move the focus from vampires to them, it wouldn't hurt to give them a bit of a power boost. Perhaps they are stronger because of a sort of conservation of energy, as vampires die off the power of the blood of Caine becomes more concentrated in the veins of ghoul families.
I'm not sure if I would use the Risen or not. It all depends on what you're going for, on what sort of game you want to play and how much you want the creatures in your game to resemble vampires.
Quote from: King Truffle IV;822911Also, this: is brilliant.
Thanks. Since I mentioned it I have been thinking about more ideas for what a setting like this would be like. What Revenant families would be prominent, how they would organize themselves, and so on. I might do a write up for this alternate OWoD, either here or on another thread :)
While I don't like the idea of Vampires disappearing in the Middle Ages, I think the major 'theme' or idea that if you remove Vampires or Kindred from the WoD and then what supernatural would replace them or what supernatural closely resembles Vampires in the WoD?
Basically what if you have a world where There's only other the game splats outside Vampire existing and one would ask "What about Vampires? How can they exist in this world?".
Of course though one of the depressing facts about Masquerade is that since their tied to Caine they're pretty much doomed by canon due to the Withering and eventual Red Star wipe out while the surviving ones turn into mortals not to mention it's the canon ending that WW chose I heard somewhere.
With the Kindred gone like I asked before, what will replace them? I think the most depressing part is that no matter what replaces them will never be the same no matter how they try to mimic them but it'll feel somewhat hollow as if something's missing and Vampires will become just a myth that every remaining Undead would dream of being but never become one...
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822922While I don't like the idea of Vampires disappearing in the Middle Ages, I think the major 'theme' or idea that if you remove Vampires or Kindred from the WoD and then what supernatural would replace them or what supernatural closely resembles Vampires in the WoD?
Basically what if you have a world where There's only other the game splats outside Vampire existing and one would ask "What about Vampires? How can they exist in this world?".
Of course though one of the depressing facts about Masquerade is that since their tied to Caine they're pretty much doomed by canon due to the Withering and eventual Red Star wipe out while the surviving ones turn into mortals not to mention it's the canon ending that WW chose I heard somewhere.
With the Kindred gone like I asked before, what will replace them? I think the most depressing part is that no matter what replaces them will never be the same no matter how they try to mimic them but it'll feel somewhat hollow as if something's missing and Vampires will become just a myth that every remaining Undead would dream of being but never become one...
Well, what would the mortal world even be like after Gehenna? We're talking about a post apocalyptic setting anyway. I'm not sure if anything would naturally replace them, not in the sense of filling an ecological niche. For that to happen, it kind of implies that vampires were crowding out some other supernatural and I'm not sure that was the case, aside perhaps from Kindred of the East.
I wouldn't dwell too much on the necessity of vampires dying off. That is optional canon anyway. If you don't like the ideas of vampires disappearing, you don't have to include it. In virtually every V:tM game I've played in or run, Gehenna, the Antediluvians, and Caine were treated pretty much as myths anyway.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822922With the Kindred gone like I asked before, what will replace them?
Kuei-jin, Risen, and Unseelie Changelings who get their kicks off of flattering imitation. That's it. Nothing else. Gehenna destroyed all of oWoD for you, and there is nothing left but to switch to nWoD or play a new game.
:(
Quote from: Opaopajr;822947Changelings who get their kicks off of flattering imitation.
There are a number of interesting faerie concepts that overlap with vampires. In fact, if you look at certain myths about the Fae, some of them almost are vampires. Dark Ages Fae of the Winter Court, with their variety of night related powers, could be quite vampiric if not undead.
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;822994There are a number of interesting faerie concepts that overlap with vampires. In fact, if you look at certain myths about the Fae, some of them almost are vampires. Dark Ages Fae of the Winter Court, with their variety of night related powers, could be quite vampiric if not undead.
However unlike DA: Fae though, I think Dreaming by comparison is very rigid for example you as if have to choose the right kith which none of them may 100% fit the Vampiric concept (because they'll still come out with their kith features like Sluagh for example the only 'darkling/goth' splat always speaking in whispers and always Russian) or especially what DA: Fae may have execute perfectly of what Dreaming can't.
...I think it's one of the reasons why I rather prefer to have DA: Fae in the modern era instead of Dreaming.
In a matter of fact, Ars Magica the precursor of the WoD proposed that Vampires were Fae....
Quote from: Cryptofblood;823037However unlike DA: Fae though, I think Dreaming by comparison is very rigid for example you as if have to choose the right kith which none of them may 100% fit the Vampiric concept (because they'll still come out with their kith features like Sluagh for example the only 'darkling/goth' splat always speaking in whispers and always Russian) or especially what DA: Fae may have execute perfectly of what Dreaming can't.
...I think it's one of the reasons why I rather prefer to have DA: Fae in the modern era instead of Dreaming.
In a matter of fact, Ars Magica the precursor of the WoD proposed that Vampires were Fae....
If you like Dark Ages Fae more, then use it.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822922With the Kindred gone like I asked before, what will replace them?
Ukusgualu, The Lamprey Hosts (http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/419096-ukusgualu-the-lamprey-hosts).
I think oWoD had more variation. The kindred of the East were very different from the other vampires. In new vampire you basically copy paste the same clans and covenants in each country with some slight variation. Anyone who thinks the KotE or the KotEK are racist needs to take a break.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822722Quite thank you, I'll drink it because all I drink is water.
*gulp*
FYI: To "pass water" on something is a euphemism for pissing on it.
Quote from: jan paparazzi;823123Anyone who thinks the KotE or the KotEK are racist needs to take a break.
And this is how racism works since we don't look at ourselves and live in denial while still contributing to the culture that perpetuates it which KotE and KotEK are simply products of simply because it is so normalized we often tend to soak it up in a daily basis without realizing it.
How long does it take for one to realize that the Emperor wears no Clothes?
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833103And this is how racism works since we don't look at ourselves and live in denial while still contributing to the culture that perpetuates it which KotE and KotEK are simply products of simply because it is so normalized we often tend to soak it up in a daily basis without realizing it.
How long does it take for one to realize that the Emperor wears no Clothes?
You're Blood Lore aren't you?
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;833170You're Blood Lore aren't you?
In a matter of fact I am honestly enough.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833103And this is how racism works since we don't look at ourselves and live in denial while still contributing to the culture that perpetuates it which KotE and KotEK are simply products of simply because it is so normalized we often tend to soak it up in a daily basis without realizing it.
How long does it take for one to realize that the Emperor wears no Clothes?
Considering Japanese culture is one of the most racist on the planet, I don't think they have much to complain about in regards to a 20 year old bit of Orientalism.
Is KotE poorly researched and presents an inaccurate view of Asian cultures? Sure thing. Is it responsible for human misery, denying equal rights, or racially motivated violence? Not so much.
Perspective is a wonderful thing.
An RPG isn't exactly the best material from which to craft a moral high horse to sit on.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822849How is that even possible? You can't be Pro-Feminism and Pro-GamerGate at the same time because they are incompatible.
Never heard of Base Mom?
Quote from: Cryptofblood;822922With the Kindred gone like I asked before, what will replace them?
Faeries. They were always better monsters anyways.
Quote from: TristramEvans;833338Considering Japanese culture is one of the most racist on the planet, I don't think they have much to complain about in regards to a 20 year old bit of Orientalism.
Is KotE poorly researched and presents an inaccurate view of Asian cultures? Sure thing. Is it responsible for human misery, denying equal rights, or racially motivated violence? Not so much.
Perspective is a wonderful thing.
An RPG isn't exactly the best material from which to craft a moral high horse to sit on.
Japan as it exists today is also a product of western imperialism if you know the history behind it and infact Japanese people actually admire white people and try to make themselves more white so this actually harms your argument since there isn't the most "racist country on earth" rather racism exists as a institutionalized power that exists everywhere in the world which is also how imperialism works as well.
I think you simply don't get it the reason why KotE/KotEK is "poorly researched" because they are written by mostly white people who contributed to a racist institutional culture so they didn't have to due to their entitlement to do anything they wanted, same thing Monte Cook was about to with the Native American section obviously.
Quote from: TristramEvans;833340Never heard of Base Mom?
Never heard of it and don't care.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833345Never heard of it and don't care.
(shrug) feel free to wallow in your ignorance.
Who the Hell is Blood Lore?
Quote from: TristramEvans;833346(shrug) feel free to wallow in your ignorance.
You're now projecting yourself unto me making it look like I'm the ignorant one while reality says otherwise.
An uneducated troll, apparently.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833350You're now projecting yourself unto me making it look like I'm the ignorant one while reality says otherwise.
Ignorance : not knowing something.
Wallowing in ignorance: taking false pride in not knowing something
You: "I don't know and don't want to know".
You: reality's bitch.
RE: oWoD
I think mining around the WoD lore the most you can do is use Ghouls. I believe there was some non canonical fusion of Werewolves & Cainite Vampires, but again I don't think it's what you're looking for.
I think they would have to be created somehow, i.e. Mutated Changelings or a Mage creation gone wrong.
Re: Gamer Gate:
I think it's dishonest to say GG'ers have had nothing to do with harassing feminist journalists etc. The problem is that the movement is an uncontrollable seven headed hydra with each head doing it's own thing.
There are guys like me, that really, at most read up on the GGer movement and agree with the corruption in the media with journalists reviewing ANY product. Trust me, in the gun community there is a saying "There's never been a gun that a gun journalist/reviewer didn't like." Or how in PC hardware reviews - pretty much every piece of PC hardware gets a positive review.
However - do I go around posting harassing comments on people's twitter feeds or stay up all night hacking websites in order to dox them? No. Do I think people should be harassed like that & receive death threats? No. Do I agree with any of their methods? No.
Acting like any GGer you encounter is a woman hater isn't winning you any points.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833345I think you simply don't get it the reason why KotE/KotEK is "poorly researched" because they are written by mostly white people who contributed to a racist institutional culture so they didn't have to due to their entitlement to do anything they wanted, same thing Monte Cook was about to with the Native American section obviously.
What are you even trying to say?
Quote from: Nexus;833348Who the Hell is Blood Lore?
An annoying shit from Shadownessence, a OWoD fansite that went belly up.
Bloodlore is one of those eats, breathes,and shits WoD information fanatics, and doesn't know about much about anything else as you can tell with his hilariously racist "the Japanese are trying to be white' bit.
Most importantly, Bloodlore doesn't actually play any RPGs, he was strictly a collector. So all this arguing and nitpicking over setting details means absolutely nothing.
Quote from: Autumnborn;833448An annoying shit from Shadownessence, a OWoD fansite that went belly up.
Bloodlore is one of those eats, breathes,and shits WoD information fanatics, and doesn't know about much about anything else as you can tell with his hilariously racist "the Japanese are trying to be white' bit.
Most importantly, Bloodlore doesn't actually play any RPGs, he was strictly a collector. So all this arguing and nitpicking over setting details means absolutely nothing.
Thanks for the information (but I'm kinda sorry I asked. ;))
Quote from: Autumnborn;833448An annoying shit from Shadownessence, a OWoD fansite that went belly up.
Bloodlore is one of those eats, breathes,and shits WoD information fanatics, and doesn't know about much about anything else as you can tell with his hilariously racist "the Japanese are trying to be white' bit.
Most importantly, Bloodlore doesn't actually play any RPGs, he was strictly a collector. So all this arguing and nitpicking over setting details means absolutely nothing.
Welcome to the forum :D
Quote from: Autumnborn;833448An annoying shit from Shadownessence, a OWoD fansite that went belly up.
Bloodlore is one of those eats, breathes,and shits WoD information fanatics, and doesn't know about much about anything else as you can tell with his hilariously racist "the Japanese are trying to be white' bit.
Most importantly, Bloodlore doesn't actually play any RPGs, he was strictly a collector. So all this arguing and nitpicking over setting details means absolutely nothing.
Welcome to the forum! :)
Thanks for the welcome. I'm a long time lurker, but months of watching cryptofblood gibber on finally forced me to register.
Quote from: Autumnborn;833448An annoying shit from Shadownessence, a OWoD fansite that went belly up.
Bloodlore is one of those eats, breathes,and shits WoD information fanatics, and doesn't know about much about anything else as you can tell with his hilariously racist "the Japanese are trying to be white' bit.
Most importantly, Bloodlore doesn't actually play any RPGs, he was strictly a collector. So all this arguing and nitpicking over setting details means absolutely nothing.
He's actually been to various RPG forums on the net, including the official White Wolf forums and Big Purple. Most of his posts seem be related to using WoD games to express Marxist ideas, though hating whitey seems to be a common theme as well.
Quote from: TristramEvans;833355Ignorance : not knowing something.
Wallowing in ignorance: taking false pride in not knowing something
You: "I don't know and don't want to know".
You: reality's bitch.
Ironically enough it sounds like you when refusing to know what GamerGate actually is actually about or what Feminism even is.
Quote from: Autumnborn;833448Bloodlore is one of those eats, breathes,and shits WoD information fanatics, and doesn't know about much about anything else as you can tell with his hilariously racist "the Japanese are trying to be white' bit..
One way to completely miss the point here since racism doesn't exist in a vacuum you know.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833537Ironically enough it sounds like you when refusing to know what GamerGate actually is actually about or what Feminism even is.
No it doesn't, you're just lying to cover your ass. I havent even posted one word about Gamergate or feminism in this thread, obviously.
And apparently another person whose definition of "ironic" came from an Alannis Morisette song.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833537One way to completely miss the point here since racism doesn't exist in a vacuum you know.
No segregation among dust particles
Quote from: TristramEvans;833544No it doesn't, you're just lying to cover your ass. I havent even posted one word about Gamergate or feminism in this thread, obviously.
And apparently another person whose definition of "ironic" came from an Alannis Morisette song.
The irony is that his comment fits on himself, and he do not seem to realize it.
And the Alannis Morisette song do pinpoint what irony is, and it is ironic that people keep saying that it doesn't.
And if i'm wrong about that or not, please do not add that to the off-topics that plagues this thread, Ok?
I'll try to bring it back on track a bit.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833537Ironically enough it sounds like you when refusing to know what GamerGate actually is actually about or what Feminism even is.
The irony is sadly that that comment fit yourself perfectly.
But on Topic:
So you don't like KotE.
Fine.
Use Changeling, let them use Blood to power their Arts, and skip the Realms part.
Or, use Ghouls that has made their blood potent through rituals.
Or why not both?
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833537One way to completely miss the point here since racism doesn't exist in a vacuum you know.
That statement sure does though.
(belated) Welcome, Millenium! All the new people are congregating here like a welcoming party, this is wonderful! Please feel free to contribute more. :)
Quote from: Catelf;833547And if i'm wrong about that or not, please do not add that to the off-topics that plagues this thread, Ok?
I'll try to bring it back on track a bit.
You are posting in a troll thread (I didnt even grab a meme for that one).
Has the OP responded to one on-topic suggestion?
Just incase why you're wondering why I haven't played a WoD game is because I personally don't know anyone who plays those games face to face (since it's a group game) and plus it's also extremely difficult if not impossible to find a online game that fits my tastes so I'm pretty much stuck with the video games which I rarely play anymore. So I'm out of luck basically.
Quote from: Catelf;833548Use Changeling, let them use Blood to power their Arts, and skip the Realms part.
Or, use Ghouls that has made their blood potent through rituals.
Or why not both?
Problem is I don't like Changeling and plus due to the rigidity of the kiths, I don't think there is a single one that mimics Vampires that well also due to the fact you can't customize your own character like you can do in DA: Fae.
As for Ghouls, you're just a slave towards a another Vampire which is something I don't want.
If this thread keeps up I am going to make a thread on how both world of darkness games suck. Well mainly nWoD, but you still get the picture.
Quote from: Snowman0147;833689If this thread keeps up I am going to make a thread on how both world of darkness games suck. Well mainly nWoD, but you still get the picture.
I find nWoD quite tolerable, certainly better than the overmighty metaplot of oWoD. System is vastly superior to the clusterfuck that was old Storyteller, too.
Quote from: Kiero;833690I find nWoD quite tolerable, certainly better than the overmighty metaplot of oWoD. System is vastly superior to the clusterfuck that was old Storyteller, too.
I speak about nWoD mainly do to the fact I have far more experience on that WoD than I do with cWoD. This is also not so much a system complaint as it is a setting and player base complaint.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833681Just incase why you're wondering why I haven't played a WoD game is because I personally don't know anyone who plays those games face to face (since it's a group game) and plus it's also extremely difficult if not impossible to find a online game that fits my tastes so I'm pretty much stuck with the video games which I rarely play anymore. So I'm out of luck basically.
I had that problem for years, and after years of playing, I have had that problem for years now again.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833681Problem is I don't like Changeling and plus due to the rigidity of the kiths, I don't think there is a single one that mimics Vampires that well also due to the fact you can't customize your own character like you can do in DA: Fae.
As for Ghouls, you're just a slave towards a another Vampire which is something I don't want.
You are looking at the games as if they are only what is said in the rulebook.
However, what I am suggesting can essentially be described as "modding".
It may seem like a lawlessness, but it essentially means that one keeps what is necessary, like the main system, while removing or replacing or even changing the parts that doesn't fit.
In the case of using Changelings, skip the dreaming part, they are locked in reality now. Sure, according to the rules in changeling, it would cause them Banality enough to become mindless drones, but as the world has changed, so did them.
(Source: my own imagination + logical thinking)
They are no longer affected by Banality, but they no longer has access to Glamour, so they need Blood instead.
As for rigidity of the Kith, as they are (seemingly) cut off from the Dreaming, Pooka may tell the truth outright, Sluagh may scream, and Redcaps may act as pleasant beings.
Not to mention that the Vampiric Diciplines is available to all(treat all as Caitiff when it comes to buying Diciplines, and the Arts cost the same, essentially).
On Ghouls, they are now without Masters, and those that isn't dad from old age already might have searched for new ways to prolong their lives, leading to some finding rituals to make their own blood potent, thereby becoming vampires themselves.
Again, these are modification suggestions, for the kind of setting you described.
Quote from: Kiero;833690I find nWoD quite tolerable, certainly better than the overmighty metaplot of oWoD. System is vastly superior to the clusterfuck that was old Storyteller, too.
Why not simply throw out the Metaplot, streamline the rules (no virtue values in Vampire, and treat Gnosis, Glamour and Quintessence as the same thing, for instance)?
Quote from: Catelf;833706Why not simply throw out the Metaplot, streamline the rules (no virtue values in Vampire, and treat Gnosis, Glamour and Quintessence as the same thing, for instance)?
You can't "streamline" Storyteller to fix it, the only place it belongs is in the bin. That's why Ex3 will be shit, they tried to polish the turd instead of flushing it and starting again.
If you throw out the Metaplot and the rules, what's left? Some paper thin stereotype-splats that are showing their age?
There's also Dark Ages Fae from Vampire: The Dark Ages oWoD line. No kiths, and its very easy to make Glaistigs and other faeries that are vampire-like.
Anyways, if we're not talking about someone running a game and completely slaving to WoD cannon, the whole question is moot because as long as theres a World of Darkness, there are vampires.
Quote from: Kiero;833733You can't "streamline" Storyteller to fix it, the only place it belongs is in the bin. That's why Ex3 will be shit, they tried to polish the turd instead of flushing it and starting again.
If you throw out the Metaplot and the rules, what's left? Some paper thin stereotype-splats that are showing their age?
Did I say " throw out the rules"?
No, I didn't.
I said "streamline".
Essentially what they did in nWoD, but too much in some cases and not enough in others.
As for Exalted, I have no copy of any edition of it, as Fantasy is not any of my favourite genres.
As for you thinking it belongs in the bin .... well, that is your opinion.
I used to think D&D belonged in the bin, but I don't any longer, as there actually exists people that (GASP!) LIKES it.
The same goes for the Storyteller System.
And if you think the rules are broken, then fix them with houserules and other modding.
Or you may of course throw any copies you have in the bin, I don't mind.
Or do something else.
Quote from: TristramEvans;833738There's also Dark Ages Fae from Vampire: The Dark Ages oWoD line. No kiths, and its very easy to make Glaistigs and other faeries that are vampire-like.
Anyways, if we're not talking about someone running a game and completely slaving to WoD cannon, the whole question is moot because as long as theres a World of Darkness, there are vampires.
Well DA: Fae is exactly what I want but I also want to port it in the modern age since I don't think they should be restricted just in the Dark Ages.
I think this thread should include not just "Post-Gehenna alternatives to Vampires" but also "Alternatives to Vampires in General" for those who want to play as a Vampire like character but don't like how the Kindred are presented and if there's alternative options available in the same setting where the default Kindred Vampires still exist.
Quote from: Catelf;833704I had that problem for years, and after years of playing, I have had that problem for years now again.
You are looking at the games as if they are only what is said in the rulebook.
However, what I am suggesting can essentially be described as "modding".
It may seem like a lawlessness, but it essentially means that one keeps what is necessary, like the main system, while removing or replacing or even changing the parts that doesn't fit.
In the case of using Changelings, skip the dreaming part, they are locked in reality now. Sure, according to the rules in changeling, it would cause them Banality enough to become mindless drones, but as the world has changed, so did them.
(Source: my own imagination + logical thinking)
They are no longer affected by Banality, but they no longer has access to Glamour, so they need Blood instead.
As for rigidity of the Kith, as they are (seemingly) cut off from the Dreaming, Pooka may tell the truth outright, Sluagh may scream, and Redcaps may act as pleasant beings.
Not to mention that the Vampiric Diciplines is available to all(treat all as Caitiff when it comes to buying Diciplines, and the Arts cost the same, essentially).
On Ghouls, they are now without Masters, and those that isn't dad from old age already might have searched for new ways to prolong their lives, leading to some finding rituals to make their own blood potent, thereby becoming vampires themselves.
Again, these are modification suggestions, for the kind of setting you described.
Well thing is, Dreaming Changelings are still not immortal and plus it sounds like your proposed setting sounds like you miss the point of what Dreaming is about which without the Dreaming, they'll just disappear and cease to exist due to "Eternal Winter" and plus making changelings 'vampires' doesn't sound quite right either.
So I rather prefer not use Dreaming at all or somehow have a setting where DA: Fae and C:tD coexist as separate supernaturals that have no link to each other.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833835Well DA: Fae is exactly what I want but I also want to port it in the modern age since I don't think they should be restricted just in the Dark Ages.
I think this thread should include not just "Post-Gehenna alternatives to Vampires" but also "Alternatives to Vampires in General" for those who want to play as a Vampire like character but don't like how the Kindred are presented and if there's alternative options available in the same setting where the default Kindred Vampires still exist.
In that case, maybe you could take Kindred and change what you don't like about them. Say, if you like 80% of how vampires are presented in V:tM, instead of finding something else entirely different, you can change that 20% that you don't like.
I do have to admit, in terms of alternative vampires, I do think that there is something appealing about the idea that vampires are just a kind of fae. There are numerous legends suggesting that fae are nocturnal and many fake creatures fit the vampire trope of being predators of humanity. In fact, many such legends resemble the modern vampire more than historical vampire myths do.
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;833853In that case, maybe you could take Kindred and change what you don't like about them. Say, if you like 80% of how vampires are presented in V:tM, instead of finding something else entirely different, you can change that 20% that you don't like.
Well I can list out what I don't like about the Kindred:
1. The Beast
2. The Humanity/Path system
3. Frenzying
4. Sunlight burns them
6. The Entire Noddest Myth not to mention the very threat of Gehenna itself.
7. Also the fact that Vampires being chronic backstabbers being their species wide hat
8. Also this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade) from TV Tropes:
QuoteAbusive Parents: Most sires fall into this bad habit. Sometimes they're really trying to be good mentors, but it's just not in a vampire's nature to have a truly mutually beneficial relationship with one of its own kind. Of course, a great many others are openly abusive and manipulative on purpose.
I guess this means if PCs are sires they have to be abusive towards their childer because of their "Vampire Nature" which makes it impossible for being egalitarian mentors or what if a scenario where two characters were friends when they were mortal and one of them get's embraced as a Vampire at some point.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833860Well I can list out what I don't like about the Kindred:
1. The Beast
2. The Humanity/Path system
3. Frenzying
4. Sunlight burns them
From a mechanical perspective, making these changes is exceptionally easy. Just remove these things. No Virtues or Humanity, no Frenzy rolls, nothing like that. Your character just does as you want them to do and has what ever morality the player decides on.
As for sunlight, the same idea goes. Just don't have it burn them. If you want to keep vampires being mostly nocturnal, you can have some sorts of daytime penalties for them. If not, then just let them walk around in the day like humans.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;8338606. The Entire Noddest Myth not to mention the very threat of Gehenna itself.
This is basically how I have run Vampire for years. Well, I keep the Noddist origin myth, but it's just that, a myth. Nobody knows the truth for sure. So there is no Gehenna and no appearance by Caine or anybody like that.
I think it was another one of your threads where I mentioned this idea, but I have thought it might be an interesting alternative take on V:tM if Noddism was something relatively unique to the Sabbat, as the Sabbat arose among relatively young vampires during the height of Christianity in Europe, where as the Camarilla in the middle ages was heavily influenced by primarily pagan elders and so didn't embrace Noddism and remained relatively secular.
From my experiences, games where Noddism is necessary often remove agency from players, because they involve Antediluvians, Caine, God or other vastly more powerful forces which players are helpless against.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;8338607. Also the fact that Vampires being chronic backstabbers being their species wide hat
8. Also
I guess this means if PCs are sires they have to be abusive towards their childer because of their "Vampire Nature" which makes it impossible for being egalitarian mentors or what if a scenario where two characters were friends when they were mortal and one of them get's embraced as a Vampire at some point.
These are a bit more subtle qualities than have no mechanical backing but form important aspects of the setting. I wouldn't change these things because to me, they form the most important part of the V:tM game, but you're free to change them. I'm not really sure what Vampire would look like without the backstabbing elements, because the entire political structure kind of draws upon that idea - Clan against Clan, young against old, and so on.
In removing these aspects, I think the main thing to consider is what the focus of the game will be - what will players do and what will motivate them. If you have good motivations for the characters, then removing these elements shouldn't be an issue.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833860Well I can list out what I don't like about the Kindred:
1. The Beast
2. The Humanity/Path system
3. Frenzying
4. Sunlight burns them
6. The Entire Noddest Myth not to mention the very threat of Gehenna itself.
7. Also the fact that Vampires being chronic backstabbers being their species wide hat
8. Also this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/VampireTheMasquerade) from TV Tropes:
I guess this means if PCs are sires they have to be abusive towards their childer because of their "Vampire Nature" which makes it impossible for being egalitarian mentors or what if a scenario where two characters were friends when they were mortal and one of them get's embraced as a Vampire at some point.
You can just ignore all of these things with out much difficulty.
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;833874As for sunlight, the same idea goes. Just don't have it burn them. If you want to keep vampires being mostly nocturnal, you can have some sorts of daytime penalties for them. If not, then just let them walk around in the day like humans.
My idea for sunlight is to have them like they were during the 19th century where sunlight doesn't hurt vampires but it weakens their powers like Dracula for example.
Also I forgot that maybe I could also abolish clans but keep the disciplines.
Or....
I have a idea I've been thinking alone where I could reduce the entire Kindred species into a splat in much larger game based on different versions of Vampires like for example:
The Kindred: Vampires made from embracing or basically the standard VTM Vampires.
The Infectious: The more extreme offshot of the Kindred where they are spread through several (which the victim goes through a "Lucy Westerna" mode) or a single bite which actually requires them to not only kill their victims but also they have to destroy their bodies (if the blood drained body isn't destroyed...they turn into Zombies basically while the "infectious" nature of the bite takes over the host corpse) which are seen as a threat by other Vampires which they're commonly hunted down to stop them from spreading or basically they're Near Dark or Innocent Blood style vampires. I think this could be a interesting game to play where 'keeping the victim alive' that other splats enjoy is no longer a option which they have to cope they have to kill their prey or else if they don't they'll spread their brand of vampirism and maybe the whole "Zombie taking over the blood drained corpse" can be only for older or more potent infectious while younger ones are less potent and infact they can be even cured by blood transfusions before the "infection" goes stronger over time. Basically the Near Dark vampires are basically their "younger" counterparts and Marie from Innocient Blood is probably the more potent version of that brand is how I would picture it or maybe they're separate into different types.
The Risen: Vampires who come back from the dead which are based on the Kuie-Jinn and Wraith's Risen or Kain from Legacy of Kain but except unlike the Risen, they drink blood to preserve their immortality or else go through corpus stages if they don't.
The Self Made: Vampires who are self-made by Alchemy or magical means.
The Hereditary: "Living Vampires" who do not turn or rise from the dead but they are born as Vampires or basically Vampires based on the "Fever Dream" comics.
The Parasite: Necroscope style Vampires where umbrood parasites connect to a host which makes them require blood and twists their bodies similar to the Tzimisce. or maybe The Necroscope Vampires are similar to the Formori....
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833835Well DA: Fae is exactly what I want but I also want to port it in the modern age since I don't think they should be restricted just in the Dark Ages.
I think this thread should include not just "Post-Gehenna alternatives to Vampires" but also "Alternatives to Vampires in General" for those who want to play as a Vampire like character but don't like how the Kindred are presented and if there's alternative options available in the same setting where the default Kindred Vampires still exist.
---------------------------------------
Well thing is, Dreaming Changelings are still not immortal and plus it sounds like your proposed setting sounds like you miss the point of what Dreaming is about which without the Dreaming, they'll just disappear and cease to exist due to "Eternal Winter" and plus making changelings 'vampires' doesn't sound quite right either.
So I rather prefer not use Dreaming at all or somehow have a setting where DA: Fae and C:tD coexist as separate supernaturals that have no link to each other.
Oh, I am very well aware of the point of the Dreaming, I only don't think the Changelings, or even the Fey are as fragile towards Banality as they think they are.
Classical Fey (of actual folklore) are often depicted as what in WoD would be Unseelie, or even as downright vampiric.
And blood warms during winter.
But, it was merely another choice.
As you prefer DA: Fey, it is a good idea to start there.
I'll read the other posts before replying more.
EDIT:
You have a great assortment of ideas in your post above.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;833878snip
That sounds pretty interesting. You still kind of have that Clan vs Clan vibe with more substantive differences between the vampiric factions. I've always liked the idea that vampires are kind of like liches, wizards who turned themselves into vampires magically (not like the Tremere who steal vampirism, but from scratch more or less) and that is why they are vampires.
In this setting you propose,m would there be other supernatural beings as well?
Quote from: Sergeant Brother;833926In this setting you propose,m would there be other supernatural beings as well?
Actually all supernatural beings from every folklore/mythology/etc exists including almost every Vampire variant exists as well in my setting.
Mormons?
Quote from: Cryptofblood;834235Actually all supernatural beings from every folklore/mythology/etc exists including almost every Vampire variant exists as well in my setting.
Quote from: RPGPundit;834478Mormons?
:rotfl:
Ah, the complication of the word 'all'.
Quote from: Cryptofblood;834235Actually all supernatural beings from every folklore/mythology/etc exists including almost every Vampire variant exists as well in my setting.
That is a tremendous number of supernatural beings. Is this a setting where supernatural creatures openly exist?
Quote from: Snowman0147;833694I speak about nWoD mainly do to the fact I have far more experience on that WoD than I do with cWoD. This is also not so much a system complaint as it is a setting and player base complaint.
Now I am curious about what bothers you about it.
I think both of them are badly written, unless you use them to get in a certain mood. Then they are alright, but I like a more matter of fact writing style.
System of the new games is way more streamlined, but the settings are always a bit sterile to me. I always like a set of events to set the world in motion and they are either absent or unimportant in the newer settings.
Pod people?
Hipsters?
Quote from: jan paparazzi;836485Now I am curious about what bothers you about it.
Mainly they try to have their cake and eat it too. In other words they are going for a sandbox, but instead of giving you tools to create your own things they give you the default. So you got this middle ground of crap that feels sterile instead of going all the way to sandbox mode and have you create your own stuff.
It is like having a garden and instead of giving you the tools to grow your own plants they already did the growing for you. Just with boring ass plants that really give you nothing in return and not that attractive looking.
This was before they started to shove sjw bullshit to the point that it is glaringly obvious. I mean when nWoD started out it was politically neutral.
Quote from: RPGPundit;837175Hipsters?
Is there really a myth or folklore that defines Hipsters as supernatural creatures?
My personal variation of the question would otherwise of course be:
Otherkin?
And with that I of course mean the people that is oh-so-very human, yet have the impression that they are something else than human.
Quote from: Catelf;837272Is there really a myth or folklore that defines Hipsters as supernatural creatures?
My personal variation of the question would otherwise of course be:
Otherkin?
And with that I of course mean the people that is oh-so-very human, yet have the impression that they are something else than human.
When Changeling The Dreaming came out I recall the Otherkin community was convinced the game was written about them. In fact I discovered the existence of both at pretty much the same time. Loved the game, was never certain what to think of the people who really believed such things. Though I recall rallying to their defence on more than one occasion on TBP back in the early good days of the forum, where the group received a ton of animosity. IMO, it was no more absurd than the majority of spiritual/religious beliefs that people take seriously and seem to think deserve respect, and more importantly was completely and utterly harmless. Havent heard much about them in recent times.
Quote from: Snowman0147;837265Mainly they try to have their cake and eat it too. In other words they are going for a sandbox, but instead of giving you tools to create your own things they give you the default. So you got this middle ground of crap that feels sterile instead of going all the way to sandbox mode and have you create your own stuff.
It is like having a garden and instead of giving you the tools to grow your own plants they already did the growing for you. Just with boring ass plants that really give you nothing in return and not that attractive looking.
Yep, I think the same. It's flesh neither fish. It's somewhere in the uncanny valley of what is a good rpg. It's not a completely fleshed out setting, but it isn't a toolkit like GURPS either.
Requiem for example would be completely fleshed out if it would have a world history with some major events and some major NPC's who had an impact on the world's development.
And it would have been a toolkit if it didn't have a setting at all, but rules for creating you own clans, covenants and disciplines. The only thing that comes close is Hunter with it's dread powers.
Yeah, I never liked it too. I don't get why they just didn't keep the old wod history, ditched the metaplot, used the new rules and instead of printing those metaplot books; wrote some toolkit supplements the way Unisystem handles it with rules for everything you want to use. Unisystem doesn´t judge you for playing the game the way you want too. Wanna play Resident Evil? Fine. Wanna play Zombieland? Fine, then change this and that. WoD writers want you to play the game a certain way and the rules reflect that.
Quote from: Snowman0147;837265This was before they started to shove sjw bullshit to the point that it is glaringly obvious. I mean when nWoD started out it was politically neutral.
Yeah politcal correctness is a plague. Here watch some George Carlin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUvdXxhLPa8) for stress relief.
Quote from: Catelf;837272Otherkin?
And with that I of course mean the people that is oh-so-very human, yet have the impression that they are something else than human.
Wouldn't this just be Changeling?
Quote from: RPGPundit;838014Wouldn't this just be Changeling?
Not really, because even though several Otherkin would fit into the Changeling categories, the umbrella term actually also covers a lot of potential beings that doo not always like the umbrella term, because they too think it is all about variants of elves.
Like Vampires, werewolves ...., Angels, Demons, Elementals, Mythological Creatures, Therianthropes, Dragons ... and also the believed non-existant Machine-kin and the utterly improbable Fiction-Kin.
Now one may say that WoD pretty well covers all those, but not really.
See, Otherkin is still very much Human.
They are usually not more vulnerable to Cold Iron or Sunlight than regular humans are, but then again, they also merely have a mere fraction of what their "kin" is supposed to have, unless they get agitated or encounters magic or something such. In Reality they rarely do. But in the fictive world of WoD, who knows?
Confederates?