There's also Dark Ages Fae from Vampire: The Dark Ages oWoD line. No kiths, and its very easy to make Glaistigs and other faeries that are vampire-like.

Anyways, if we're not talking about someone running a game and completely slaving to WoD cannon, the whole question is moot because as long as theres a World of Darkness, there are vampires.

Quote from: Kiero;833733You can't "streamline" Storyteller to fix it, the only place it belongs is in the bin. That's why Ex3 will be shit, they tried to polish the turd instead of flushing it and starting again.

If you throw out the Metaplot and the rules, what's left? Some paper thin stereotype-splats that are showing their age?

Did I say " throw out the rules"?
No, I didn't.
I said "streamline".
Essentially what they did in nWoD, but too much in some cases and not enough in others.

As for Exalted, I have no copy of any edition of it, as Fantasy is not any of my favourite genres.

As for you thinking it belongs in the bin .... well, that is your opinion.
I used to think D&D belonged in the bin, but I don't any longer, as there actually exists people that (GASP!) LIKES it.
The same goes for the Storyteller System.
And if you think the rules are broken, then fix them with houserules and other modding.
Or you may of course throw any copies you have in the bin, I don't mind.
Or do something else.

Quote from: TristramEvans;833738There's also Dark Ages Fae from Vampire: The Dark Ages oWoD line. No kiths, and its very easy to make Glaistigs and other faeries that are vampire-like.

Anyways, if we're not talking about someone running a game and completely slaving to WoD cannon, the whole question is moot because as long as theres a World of Darkness, there are vampires.

Well DA: Fae is exactly what I want but I also want to port it in the modern age since I don't think they should be restricted just in the Dark Ages.

I think this thread should include not just "Post-Gehenna alternatives to Vampires" but also "Alternatives to Vampires in General" for those who want to play as a Vampire like character but don't like how the Kindred are presented and if there's alternative options available in the same setting where the default Kindred Vampires still exist.

Quote from: Catelf;833704I had that problem for years, and after years of playing, I have had that problem for years now again.

You are looking at the games as if they are only what is said in the rulebook.
However, what I am suggesting can essentially be described as "modding".
It may seem like a lawlessness, but it essentially means that one keeps what is necessary, like the main system, while removing or replacing or even changing the parts that doesn't fit.

In the case of using Changelings, skip the dreaming part, they are locked in reality now. Sure, according to the rules in changeling, it would cause them Banality enough to become mindless drones, but as the world has changed, so did them.
(Source: my own imagination + logical thinking)
They are no longer affected by Banality, but they no longer has access to Glamour, so they need Blood instead.

As for rigidity of the Kith, as they are (seemingly) cut off from the Dreaming, Pooka may tell the truth outright, Sluagh may scream, and Redcaps may act as pleasant beings.
Not to mention that the Vampiric Diciplines is available to all(treat all as Caitiff when it comes to buying Diciplines, and the Arts cost the same, essentially).

On Ghouls, they are now without Masters, and those that isn't dad from old age already might have searched for new ways to prolong their lives, leading to some finding rituals to make their own blood potent, thereby becoming vampires themselves.

Again, these are modification suggestions, for the kind of setting you described.

Well thing is, Dreaming Changelings are still not immortal and plus it sounds like your proposed setting sounds like you miss the point of what Dreaming is about which without the Dreaming, they'll just disappear and cease to exist due to "Eternal Winter" and plus making changelings 'vampires' doesn't sound quite right either.

So I rather prefer not use Dreaming at all or somehow have a setting where DA: Fae and C:tD coexist as separate supernaturals that have no link to each other.

Quote from: Cryptofblood;833835Well DA: Fae is exactly what I want but I also want to port it in the modern age since I don't think they should be restricted just in the Dark Ages.

I think this thread should include not just "Post-Gehenna alternatives to Vampires" but also "Alternatives to Vampires in General" for those who want to play as a Vampire like character but don't like how the Kindred are presented and if there's alternative options available in the same setting where the default Kindred Vampires still exist.

In that case, maybe you could take Kindred and change what you don't like about them. Say, if you like 80% of how vampires are presented in V:tM, instead of finding something else entirely different, you can change that 20% that you don't like.

I do have to admit, in terms of alternative vampires, I do think that there is something appealing about the idea that vampires are just a kind of fae. There are numerous legends suggesting that fae are nocturnal and many fake creatures fit the vampire trope of being predators of humanity. In fact, many such legends resemble the modern vampire more than historical vampire myths do.

Quote from: Sergeant Brother;833853In that case, maybe you could take Kindred and change what you don't like about them. Say, if you like 80% of how vampires are presented in V:tM, instead of finding something else entirely different, you can change that 20% that you don't like.

Well I can list out what I don't like about the Kindred:

1. The Beast

2. The Humanity/Path system

3. Frenzying

4. Sunlight burns them

6. The Entire Noddest Myth not to mention the very threat of Gehenna itself.

7. Also the fact that Vampires being chronic backstabbers being their species wide hat

8. Also this from TV Tropes:

QuoteAbusive Parents: Most sires fall into this bad habit. Sometimes they're really trying to be good mentors, but it's just not in a vampire's nature to have a truly mutually beneficial relationship with one of its own kind. Of course, a great many others are openly abusive and manipulative on purpose.

I guess this means if PCs are sires they have to be abusive towards their childer because of their "Vampire Nature" which makes it impossible for being egalitarian mentors or what if a scenario where two characters were friends when they were mortal and one of them get's embraced as a Vampire at some point.

Quote from: Cryptofblood;833860Well I can list out what I don't like about the Kindred:

1. The Beast

2. The Humanity/Path system

3. Frenzying

4. Sunlight burns them

From a mechanical perspective, making these changes is exceptionally easy. Just remove these things. No Virtues or Humanity, no Frenzy rolls, nothing like that. Your character just does as you want them to do and has what ever morality the player decides on.

As for sunlight, the same idea goes. Just don't have it burn them. If you want to keep vampires being mostly nocturnal, you can have some sorts of daytime penalties for them. If not, then just let them walk around in the day like humans.

Quote from: Cryptofblood;8338606. The Entire Noddest Myth not to mention the very threat of Gehenna itself.

This is basically how I have run Vampire for years. Well, I keep the Noddist origin myth, but it's just that, a myth. Nobody knows the truth for sure. So there is no Gehenna and no appearance by Caine or anybody like that.

I think it was another one of your threads where I mentioned this idea, but I have thought it might be an interesting alternative take on V:tM if Noddism was something relatively unique to the Sabbat, as the Sabbat arose among relatively young vampires during the height of Christianity in Europe, where as the Camarilla in the middle ages was heavily influenced by primarily pagan elders and so didn't embrace Noddism and remained relatively secular.

From my experiences, games where Noddism is necessary often remove agency from players, because they involve Antediluvians, Caine, God or other vastly more powerful forces which players are helpless against.

Quote from: Cryptofblood;8338607. Also the fact that Vampires being chronic backstabbers being their species wide hat

8. Also

I guess this means if PCs are sires they have to be abusive towards their childer because of their "Vampire Nature" which makes it impossible for being egalitarian mentors or what if a scenario where two characters were friends when they were mortal and one of them get's embraced as a Vampire at some point.

These are a bit more subtle qualities than have no mechanical backing but form important aspects of the setting. I wouldn't change these things because to me, they form the most important part of the V:tM game, but you're free to change them. I'm not really sure what Vampire would look like without the backstabbing elements, because the entire political structure kind of draws upon that idea - Clan against Clan, young against old, and so on.

In removing these aspects, I think the main thing to consider is what the focus of the game will be - what will players do and what will motivate them. If you have good motivations for the characters, then removing these elements shouldn't be an issue.

Quote from: Cryptofblood;833860Well I can list out what I don't like about the Kindred:

1. The Beast

2. The Humanity/Path system

3. Frenzying

4. Sunlight burns them

6. The Entire Noddest Myth not to mention the very threat of Gehenna itself.

7. Also the fact that Vampires being chronic backstabbers being their species wide hat

8. Also this from TV Tropes:



I guess this means if PCs are sires they have to be abusive towards their childer because of their "Vampire Nature" which makes it impossible for being egalitarian mentors or what if a scenario where two characters were friends when they were mortal and one of them get's embraced as a Vampire at some point.

You can just ignore all of these things with out much difficulty.

Quote from: Sergeant Brother;833874As for sunlight, the same idea goes. Just don't have it burn them. If you want to keep vampires being mostly nocturnal, you can have some sorts of daytime penalties for them. If not, then just let them walk around in the day like humans.

My idea for sunlight is to have them like they were during the 19th century where sunlight doesn't hurt vampires but it weakens their powers like Dracula for example.

Also I forgot that maybe I could also abolish clans but keep the disciplines.

Or....

I have a idea I've been thinking alone where I could reduce the entire Kindred species into a splat in much larger game based on different versions of Vampires like for example:

The Kindred: Vampires made from embracing or basically the standard VTM Vampires.

The Infectious: The more extreme offshot of the Kindred where they are spread through several (which the victim goes through a "Lucy Westerna" mode) or a single bite which actually requires them to not only kill their victims but also they have to destroy their bodies (if the blood drained body isn't destroyed...they turn into Zombies basically while the "infectious" nature of the bite takes over the host corpse) which are seen as a threat by other Vampires which they're commonly hunted down to stop them from spreading or basically they're Near Dark or Innocent Blood style vampires. I think this could be a interesting game to play where 'keeping the victim alive' that other splats enjoy is no longer a option which they have to cope they have to kill their prey or else if they don't they'll spread their brand of vampirism and maybe the whole "Zombie taking over the blood drained corpse" can be only for older or more potent infectious while younger ones are less potent and infact they can be even cured by blood transfusions before the "infection" goes stronger over time. Basically the Near Dark vampires are basically their "younger" counterparts and Marie from Innocient Blood is probably the more potent version of that brand is how I would picture it or maybe they're separate into different types.

The Risen: Vampires who come back from the dead which are based on the Kuie-Jinn and Wraith's Risen or Kain from Legacy of Kain but except unlike the Risen, they drink blood to preserve their immortality or else go through corpus stages if they don't.

The Self Made: Vampires who are self-made by Alchemy or magical means.

The Hereditary: "Living Vampires" who do not turn or rise from the dead but they are born as Vampires or basically Vampires based on the "Fever Dream" comics.

The Parasite: Necroscope style Vampires where umbrood parasites connect to a host which makes them require blood and twists their bodies similar to the Tzimisce. or maybe The Necroscope Vampires are similar to the Formori....

Quote from: Cryptofblood;833835Well DA: Fae is exactly what I want but I also want to port it in the modern age since I don't think they should be restricted just in the Dark Ages.

I think this thread should include not just "Post-Gehenna alternatives to Vampires" but also "Alternatives to Vampires in General" for those who want to play as a Vampire like character but don't like how the Kindred are presented and if there's alternative options available in the same setting where the default Kindred Vampires still exist.

---------------------------------------

Well thing is, Dreaming Changelings are still not immortal and plus it sounds like your proposed setting sounds like you miss the point of what Dreaming is about which without the Dreaming, they'll just disappear and cease to exist due to "Eternal Winter" and plus making changelings 'vampires' doesn't sound quite right either.

So I rather prefer not use Dreaming at all or somehow have a setting where DA: Fae and C:tD coexist as separate supernaturals that have no link to each other.

Oh, I am very well aware of the point of the Dreaming, I only don't think the Changelings, or even the Fey are as fragile towards Banality as they think they are.
Classical Fey (of actual folklore) are often depicted as what in WoD would be Unseelie, or even as downright vampiric.
And blood warms during winter.

But, it was merely another choice.
As you prefer DA: Fey, it is a good idea to start there.
I'll read the other posts before replying more.

EDIT:
You have a great assortment of ideas in your post above.

Quote from: Cryptofblood;833878snip

That sounds pretty interesting. You still kind of have that Clan vs Clan vibe with more substantive differences between the vampiric factions. I've always liked the idea that vampires are kind of like liches, wizards who turned themselves into vampires magically (not like the Tremere who steal vampirism, but from scratch more or less) and that is why they are vampires.

In this setting you propose,m would there be other supernatural beings as well?

Quote from: Sergeant Brother;833926In this setting you propose,m would there be other supernatural beings as well?

Actually all supernatural beings from every folklore/mythology/etc exists including almost every Vampire variant exists as well in my setting.

Mormons?

Quote from: Cryptofblood;834235Actually all supernatural beings from every folklore/mythology/etc exists including almost every Vampire variant exists as well in my setting.

Quote from: RPGPundit;834478Mormons?

:rotfl:
Ah, the complication of the word 'all'.

Quote from: Cryptofblood;834235Actually all supernatural beings from every folklore/mythology/etc exists including almost every Vampire variant exists as well in my setting.

That is a tremendous number of supernatural beings. Is this a setting where supernatural creatures openly exist?

Quote from: Snowman0147;833694I speak about nWoD mainly do to the fact I have far more experience on that WoD than I do with cWoD.  This is also not so much a system complaint as it is a setting and player base complaint.

Now I am curious about what bothers you about it.

I think both of them are badly written, unless you use them to get in a certain mood. Then they are alright, but I like a more matter of fact writing style.

System of the new games is way more streamlined, but the settings are always a bit sterile to me. I always like a set of events to set the world in motion and they are either absent or unimportant in the newer settings.