Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 04, 2023, 09:28:29 PM

Quote from: Scooter on August 04, 2023, 05:30:50 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on August 02, 2023, 10:21:37 PM
One thing I suggest to guys here, most of us will tend towards older and tend to DM.  Make it a point to DM at your local hobby shop with a homebrewed 5E. 

FAR better yet.  Don't run ANY WotC crap.  Run PF or C&C or other modern D&D like games.

Interesting so Keep on the Borderland, The Village Homlett, Temple of Elemental Evil and Against the Giants are crap?  5E = 2E + Advantage + Monster Stats from 3E, that's it.  You are essentially playing 2E when you are playing 5E.

I think it's obvious he's meant the garbage WotC is producing now, not TSR titles that they acquired in the purchase. You almost have to try to fail this hard.

If he plays D&D he's obviously an idiot to NOT know that WotC didn't produce those works. 

Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:17:02 AM
If he plays D&D he's obviously an idiot to NOT know that WotC didn't produce those works.

Ohh, he knows. YOU'D have to be an idiot to not read the subtext of his comment.  It's clear he specifically chose old TSR titles so he can conflate them with new WotC trash in order to make whatever asinine point he thought he was making. It's so obviously retarded, it had to be deliberate.

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 09:36:31 AM

Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:17:02 AM
If he plays D&D he's obviously an idiot to NOT know that WotC didn't produce those works.

Ohh, he knows. YOU'D have to be an idiot to not read the subtext of his comment.  It's clear he specifically chose old TSR titles so he can conflate them with new WotC trash in order to make whatever asinine point he thought he was making. It's so obviously retarded, it had to be deliberate.

Yes, I know.  I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. 

Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:48:52 AM
Yes, I know.  I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. 

Well, he DID say in the OP that he wants to "poison" the minds of people to "innoculate" them against WotC, so maybe he's just trying to poison you too. Honestly, sounds like a groomer. He can't just run the kind of game he wants and let people make their own decisions about what they like. He needs to "poison" you to his way of thinking.

Now that might just be hyperbolic language from him... a type of virtue signal... but he kinda sounds like a prick. I just want a GM that runs the fukken game, not get all preachy to me about shit.

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:18:41 AM

Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:48:52 AM
Yes, I know.  I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. 

Well, he DID say in the OP that he wants to "poison" the minds of people to "innoculate" them against WotC, so maybe he's just trying to poison you too. Honestly, sounds like a groomer. He can't just run the kind of game he wants and let people make their own decisions about what they like. He needs to "poison" you to his way of thinking.

Now that might just be hyperbolic language from him... a type of virtue signal... but he kinda sounds like a prick. I just want a GM that runs the fukken game, not get all preachy to me about shit.

Ok, in short just another nut job.

The old TSR IPs are more creative and fresh than anything made since. It's disappointing they've been left to languish in obscurity. "It didn't make enough money back then." "It's too old to bother with." These are all stupid excuses. What else are they gonna do? Make new IPs? Hahaha, yeah right! That's never gonna happen.

Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 10:25:01 AM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:18:41 AM

Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:48:52 AM
Yes, I know.  I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. 

Well, he DID say in the OP that he wants to "poison" the minds of people to "innoculate" them against WotC, so maybe he's just trying to poison you too. Honestly, sounds like a groomer. He can't just run the kind of game he wants and let people make their own decisions about what they like. He needs to "poison" you to his way of thinking.

Now that might just be hyperbolic language from him... a type of virtue signal... but he kinda sounds like a prick. I just want a GM that runs the fukken game, not get all preachy to me about shit.

Ok, in short just another nut job.

Probably not.

Just someone too caught up in the Culture War to see the forest for the trees.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 10:33:07 AM
The old TSR IPs are more creative and fresh than anything made since. It's disappointing they've been left to languish in obscurity. "It didn't make enough money back then." "It's too old to bother with." These are all stupid excuses. What else are they gonna do? Make new IPs? Hahaha, yeah right! That's never gonna happen.

I wonder how much of that languishing is coming down from Hasbro. They are sitting on a goldmine of IPs they've done nothing with. And when they tried, they failed. I've spoken to a ton of people that want a new, adult-oriented G.I. Joe show. Something that captures the spirit of the original. But Hasbro will never deliver that. And if they tried, it'd be woke, bait-&-switch trash like every other "revival" show that came out in the last 3 or 4 years.

I think the best we can hope for at this point is for these companies to hemorrhage enough money it puts them into liquidation. Then hopefully someone with some brains buys the IPs.

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:36:40 AM

Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 10:25:01 AM

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:18:41 AM

Quote from: Scooter on August 05, 2023, 09:48:52 AM
Yes, I know.  I was just trying to goad him/her into explaining the insane comment. 

Well, he DID say in the OP that he wants to "poison" the minds of people to "innoculate" them against WotC, so maybe he's just trying to poison you too. Honestly, sounds like a groomer. He can't just run the kind of game he wants and let people make their own decisions about what they like. He needs to "poison" you to his way of thinking.

Now that might just be hyperbolic language from him... a type of virtue signal... but he kinda sounds like a prick. I just want a GM that runs the fukken game, not get all preachy to me about shit.

Ok, in short just another nut job.

Probably not.

Just someone too caught up in the Culture War to see the forest for the trees.

guess I'll know for sure when it responds

Quote from: Effete on August 05, 2023, 10:52:13 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 10:33:07 AM
The old TSR IPs are more creative and fresh than anything made since. It's disappointing they've been left to languish in obscurity. "It didn't make enough money back then." "It's too old to bother with." These are all stupid excuses. What else are they gonna do? Make new IPs? Hahaha, yeah right! That's never gonna happen.

I wonder how much of that languishing is coming down from Hasbro. They are sitting on a goldmine of IPs they've done nothing with. And when they tried, they failed. I've spoken to a ton of people that want a new, adult-oriented G.I. Joe show. Something that captures the spirit of the original. But Hasbro will never deliver that. And if they tried, it'd be woke, bait-&-switch trash like every other "revival" show that came out in the last 3 or 4 years.

I think the best we can hope for at this point is for these companies to hemorrhage enough money it puts them into liquidation. Then hopefully someone with some brains buys the IPs.

Only time will tell.

Transformers has an entire multiverse that is just being ignored. Hasbro has an IP perfect for a cinematic multiverse and they're not doing anything with it.

Same for Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons.

But the D&D movie failed because they were too ambitious. What they should've done was steadily build interest in the brand outside of tabletop gamers by making animated tv shows. Like Critical Role is doing.

Do multiple shows each showcasing different aspects of the D&D multiverse: Planescape, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Birthright, Eberron, Dragonlance, Urban Arcana, etc. Have occasional crossover episodes to build connections between the shows. Then have a mega crossover to cap it.

At the same time, do GI Joe and Transformers shows. Have crossovers. Have crossovers with Urban Arcana and Dark•Matter. Have a mega crossover where the Autobots travel through time to fight the Far Realm or whatever.

Make a Mass Effect-esque space opera crpg using the Star*Drive or Star Frontiers setting. Make a Fallout-esque crpg using the Gamma World setting. Throw in more crossovers with other IPs.

Hasbro owns so many IPs that it's quite frankly dizzying af. They have a finger in pretty much every genre pastiche and no shortage of material to work with. "Nobody knows those obscure IPs!" is a garbage excuse because they can use their better known IPs to sneak in backdoor pilots. They could outright make a Sliders-esque multiverse travel show just to showcase well-known characters visiting their obscure IPs in order to build interest.

"Bubblebee's Adventures in the Multiverse" or something. The premise is that Bumblebee gets lost in Sigil and has to travel through different universes to find his way home. Each episode would introduce a different IP, like Bumblebee helps Drizzt fight Strahd, Bumblebee helps some synner replicants fight Shaper bugs and Artificer robots, Bumblebee meets the Knights of the Round Table in the far future, Bumblebee shows up on the Silver Bell colony right before first contact with the Klicks, Bumblebee fights the Sathar, Bumblebee fights the Knights of Genetic Purity on Gamma Terra, Bumblebee fights fairies in Victorian England, Bumblebee gets lost on a decaying generation ship, Bumblebee helps the Jovian colonies fight for independence, Bumblebee fights werewolves in the Wild West, Bumblebee helps a Rip Van team fight Spanthi Reavers, Bumblebee gets trapped in the DeathNet and must fight his way out, Bumblebee joins a tour band with an orangutan companion, Bumblebee fights the Iron Lords of Jupiter, etc. Those are all premises that have appeared (without Bumblebee) in books published by TSR and WotC or under license to them.

Any other media company would be absolutely salivating over having all these IPs to mine without needing to come up with any new ideas.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 11:36:34 AM
"Nobody knows those obscure IPs!" is a garbage excuse because they can use their better known IPs to sneak in backdoor pilots. They could outright make a Sliders-esque multiverse travel show just to showcase well-known characters visiting their obscure IPs in order to build interest.

Exactly.  TSR did this in a limited fashion back in the day by putting a how to guide on integrating Gamma World into a D&D into the AD&D DMG.  Same with Boot Hill

At this point WotC owns enough IPs that they could make their own universal rpg (again) by adapting them all to 5e. Pretty much the only genre they haven't pastiched is superheroes, since d20 Spectaculars was canceled due to Mutants & Masterminds getting to market first. But they can do pretty much every other genre between D&D, Gamma World, Star Frontiers, Alternity, Amazing Engine, d20 Modern, those Polyhedron mini-settings, and whatever else I'm forgetting to mention.

When media companies are scrambling to acquire IPs, I don't get why Hasbro is sitting on a goldmine in favor of mobile shovelware. They are in a much better position than Paradox is, that's for sure. Paradox is trying to cash in on the success of Troika's work on Bloodlines, while failing to emulate why people liked Troika's work in the first place. The nitty gritty of the IP is irrelevant, what's important is the character writing and atmosphere. Jeanette Voerman, Phat Larry, Sebastian LaCroix... players connected with the characters. You could reboot the IP from scratch and still be successful with that character writing. Because consumers connect with characters. Nobody gives a flying fuck about lore if they weren't already drawn in by colorful characters. Tabletop gamers who invest in pure settings are an outlier as far as consumers are concerned.

Meanwhile, Hasbro has a dozen incarnations of Bumblebee that can be used to entice fans of Transformers into their obscure IPs. Transformers has been rebooted lots of times and this has allowed writers to refine what worked while discarding what didn't, as opposed to being enslaved to convoluted lore made with no plan in mind. I vastly prefer reboots over nonsensical long-running continuity that the owners don't understand. And with a multiverse you can pay lipservice to the idea that "your favorite continuity still exists".

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 12:09:08 PM

When media companies are scrambling to acquire IPs, I don't get why Hasbro is sitting on a goldmine in favor of mobile shovelware.

I think the answer to that lies within the same reasons they shot themselves in the head ~8 months ago.  YOU think logically.  Those in charge of WotC don't.  Or at least lack the Wis to correctly predict consequences.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 05, 2023, 11:36:34 AM
Transformers has an entire multiverse that is just being ignored. Hasbro has an IP perfect for a cinematic multiverse and they're not doing anything with it.

Same for Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons.

I'm skeptical if that's a good approach at this particular time. I think the general public are kinda jaded on the whole multiverse thing. Marvel's been milking that shit since End Game, and people are tuning out. It's always a bigger threat and then a BIGGER threat... people are craving a simple street-level conflict again, where the stakes are relateable. Like what Netflix Daredevil brought. I mean, when "the fate of the multiverse is at stake" for the umpteenth time, people check out. It just too big to properly get invested.

Maybe, down the road, they could introduce dimension hopping or something, but I honestly think a grassroots story grounded in something people can relate to is the better starting point.