Cross-Forum Response to criticism of Land of Ice and Stone

[jhkim]

And while each of the games have nice bits here and there, they are both just an epic, epic fail on appealing to women. (Or indeed in some places of appealing to decent human beings of any gender). Which is really bizarre because if you know anything about the prehistoric fiction genre, you know that a metric f**k tonne of it is aimed at women.

That does a pretty nice job of highlighting that she is not interested in historical accuracy, but rather a game that ignores all that historical baggage about gender roles to focus on attracting female players. That is fine, that is a perfectly reasonable thing to look for in a game. It does not mean that games which don't focus on attracting women by excluding some of the negative features of the past are anti-woman.

OK, I'm not interested in speaking for Stronty Girl. I don't know what she is interested in.

But your assumption here is that "appealing to women players" is the same as "ignoring historical baggage about gender roles". I don't think that is the case. I haven't run a prehistoric campaign, but I've run a number of campaigns set in the past that still appealed to women players.

Speaking for myself - if I were running a realistic prehistoric game, I would want to make it appealing to women players. And that's not by ignoring the baggage or making it unrealistic - it's by working within the reality to make play fun.

For example, within hunter gatherer societies - rape of a woman by her husband is often tolerated, but rape of a woman by an outsider likely means beating or killing the offender. The latter plot is just as realistic as protecting the outsider rapist and escorting him to where he will be welcomed. If I was going to include a rape plot at all in the core book (which could easily be avoided, I think), then the latter would work better for many players - men and women.

[Bren]

The last 15 or so posts in this thread seem to have taken a hard right turn away from the Land of Ice and Stone and into the shit that is usually confined to another forum on this site.

So what about LoIaS?

[moonsweeper]

Greetings!

That's right, Moonsweeper! I love your dissection of *Strontygirl's* pathetic, though insidious argument. You took the words right outta my mouth. LOL.

Well done.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!
to yourself as well SHARK

and thank you for your service.

[Zirunel]

The last 15 or so posts in this thread seem to have taken a hard right turn away from the Land of Ice and Stone and into the shit that is usually confined to another forum on this site.

So what about LoIaS?

Well in fairness, from the first post the thread wasn't about the game but rather a particular critique of the game, and the following posts have naturally focused on the critique rather than the game.

Anyhoo, I'll admit to not having read it either. So what kind of "palaeolithic" are we talking here? "Palaeolithic" covers a lot ground and an enormous timespan (literally millions of years), including modern humans, and also some pretty darn distant relatives of modern H. sapiens sapiens....

[SHARK]

Greetings!
to yourself as well SHARK

and thank you for your service.

Greetings!

Thank you, Moonsweeper! OOH-RAH!!!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[soltakss]

As far as I can tell, no one posting here - other than the author - has demonstrated having actually read Land of Ice and Stone. However, many posters have made blanket points about the idiocy of feminist critique of historical games.

For those who have read Land of Ice and Stone - please speak up now and discuss Stronty Girl's actual points.

If you haven't, then at least be fucking honest like me and say that you haven't read it.

... and ...

The last 15 or so posts in this thread seem to have taken a hard right turn away from the Land of Ice and Stone and into the shit that is usually confined to another forum on this site.

So what about LoIaS?

I have read it!

You could all go out and buy a PDF copy to read and then tell me how wrong I am!

Kidding of course, this thread is not an advert for Land of Ice and Stone.

[Bren]

I haven't read the rules and (sadly for the author/publisher) I don't need another game. If I were to run a stone age setting, I'd dust off my old RQ rules and my notes from my early 1980s campaign set in Balazar. Fun times.

[RPGPundit]

Yes, but...

The SJW is inclined to see every historical RPG supplement as an Avalanche Press product in disguise.

Hats off to you, sir. That's a fantastic reference.

[S'mon]

Hats off to you, sir. That's a fantastic reference.

Well it was Kim whose response to the OP was "Wattabout Avalanche Press's Greenland Saga??" - so not a huge leap!

[RPGPundit]

Fair enough, didn't see that.