Clownfish TV has the scoop:
Basically, the highly successful "Critical Role" series (D&D campaigns streamed on social media) isn't inclusivediverserepresentative enough. Kotaku wakes up to this after years of success for the streamed show saying and demands for a group of friends who broadcast their games over the internet to do what Kotaku wants - which is to woke up. Apparently, CR is too colonialistproblematicandwhite to be the face of modern D&D.
https://kotaku.com/critical-role-marquet-third-campaign-asian-cultures-col-1848500055
Interestingly enough, apparently this happened after it was revealed how Critical Role is financially very successful.
While I appreciate that you may have avoided putting this in the main forum because Critical Role is not actually a roleplaying game or people actually playing a roleplaying game, I think it is close enough to the RPG hobby that it can be put in the main forum. So I'm moving it there.
For the love of god people: stop falling for clickbait. Youtube reports on clickbait are still clickbait.
Proof that no matter how far left you move, you'll never be woke enough to avoid being canceled once they've run out targets further to the right in their never-ending quest to achieve drive past the event horizon of madness into the Leftist singularity.
The sooner you get off the roller coaster, be true to yourself, and find alternate funding/promotion than Leftists bastions the better off your rpg and rpg-adjacent products will be.
What's Kotaku and why should we care about them?
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on February 09, 2022, 12:26:50 PM
For the love of god people: stop falling for clickbait. Youtube reports on clickbait are still clickbait.
I agree, also never link to woke sites directly, use Archive dot is.
Who, or what the hell is Kotaku? ;D
Quote from: Fighterboy on February 09, 2022, 12:57:16 PM
What's Kotaku and why should we care about them?
Wasn't it that little mutant shit bag in Total Recall?
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 09, 2022, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Fighterboy on February 09, 2022, 12:57:16 PM
What's Kotaku and why should we care about them?
Wasn't it that little mutant shit bag in Total Recall?
That's where the name comes from?
I only know it as one of the gaming "journalism" sites that pissed off gamers enough to spark Gamergate
Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 01:47:08 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 09, 2022, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Fighterboy on February 09, 2022, 12:57:16 PM
What's Kotaku and why should we care about them?
Wasn't it that little mutant shit bag in Total Recall?
That's where the name comes from?
Nah, I was just taking the piss out of them. The dude in Total Recall was called Kuato. :)
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 09, 2022, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Fighterboy on February 09, 2022, 12:57:16 PM
What's Kotaku and why should we care about them?
Wasn't it that little mutant shit bag in Total Recall?
No that was kuato.
Oops, late on that one. It is interesting how the woke are not interested in you until you have a lot of reach or money, or both. Then you draw like attention like flies to shit from them.
The Vox Machina cartoon is hugely diverse and inclusive. Every other extra is a person of color.
Quote from: Reckall on February 09, 2022, 05:39:26 AM
Interestingly enough, apparently this happened after it was revealed how Critical Role is financially very successful.
heh heh heh ;D
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
The article mentions that the problem is that the new campaign setting seems like it doesn't matter and that the PCs are untouched by it. It even acknowledges that this happens in almost all TTFRPG settings. OK, I won't argue with that part. Then it goes into saying that this is harmful here because [insert stupid 'woe is them' Orientalism arguments] and I just clicked the X in the corner of the page. It's rare that I agree with SHARK on anything, but "Kotaku are a bunch of morons" gets a +1 from me.
Critical Role makes money and people watch it.
Kotaku has been sold twice cheap from what was left of Gawker to Univision to...someone else? and had their "journalists" (freelancey lifestyle blogger nepotism buddies) laid off waves several times since 2015 and are infamous for have a chubby person write absurd" X in this video game is on a continuum with raping me" articles. They are a shell of a shell of a shell of what they were with even Buzzfeed rapidly shedding capital and financial mass after an IPO they don't even get much credit as a survivor of market shrinkage & conglomeration alongside Polygon and such as those who made it through the cull.
This is equivalent in impact to a flea biting a rhinoceros on its horn.
I think the buried lied here is that Kotaku pines for the good old days when they could help cancel RK Rowling or various people at Sony but now they are at best spitting into the wind and at worst making noises as they roll down a hill into an open sewer manhole.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 09, 2022, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on February 09, 2022, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: Fighterboy on February 09, 2022, 12:57:16 PM
What's Kotaku and why should we care about them?
Wasn't it that little mutant shit bag in Total Recall?
No that was kuato.
I thought it was Quardo rendered via an Austrian accent sort of like GEDDA PAMP, GEDDO DUH CHAWPA, TOOMA, and may personal favorite NEEYIIGHEEEIGGH NAAAUGH.
As usual the majority of the SJWs on the site have daid nothing about the incident. Their silence speaks volumes.
I do think the whole "white people visiting Arabian theme park" is overdone at this point. What about all the stories of Arabian heroes going on adventures in the exotic lands of Hyperborea?
(I say this with tongue firmly in cheek.)
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I'm off the opinion that this wokeness Marxist shit will only end when good people who get confronted by woke assholes just start literally knocking their teeth down their throats in response.
Quote from: HappyDaze on February 09, 2022, 02:57:35 PM
The article mentions that the problem is that the new campaign setting seems like it doesn't matter and that the PCs are untouched by it. It even acknowledges that this happens in almost all TTFRPG settings. OK, I won't argue with that part. Then it goes into saying that this is harmful here because [insert stupid 'woe is them' Orientalism arguments] and I just clicked the X in the corner of the page. It's rare that I agree with SHARK on anything, but "Kotaku are a bunch of morons" gets a +1 from me.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Cheers, HappyDaze! ;D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same? Kotaku isn't Marxist - they're wokist. They are ruthless capitalists - they just want the woke dollars and that's the capitalist niche they've carved out for themselves.
People calling this clickbait were correct - this whole thing is manufactured by a woke capitalist company trying to get more ad dollars by triggering people on all sides of the wokism debate to click on their article.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?
I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.
Deleted - drunkposting is bad
Quote from: Fighterboy on February 09, 2022, 05:37:58 PM
I have no idea where the woke brigade are on the political spectrum, but it ain't on the far left.
No idea? They are obviously on the left, no question. Even Bill Maher (a leftie) acknowledges that. For instance BLM (who nearly ruined comic-con when I was there by demanding everyone look out for microaggressions, a very woke thing) are Marxists. The wokest professor in my university department (who also wanted to teach us about microaggressions, and got pissed when almost nobody showed up) is a registered Democrat. So not all woke people are extreme leftists, but they are on the left to a T.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PMI gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism?
Its like the mcdonalds to a burger diner. One may be nicer on the exterior, but both are solidly collectivist, and in favor of societal destruction with just different focuses. Wokism is marxism with class replaced by race, but its goals are pretty much identical. All wokists posit that the racial rejection must also be a class rejection, except some of the class just must be exterminated/enslaved. Not at all different from wokism.
Otherwise many of the people from eastern europe, and its ex-soviet countries wouldn't be so afraid of the rise of wokism, and see its many, many, many, many similarities with communism.
Marxism at its core is insane nonsense. It has no real principles and all of its adherants that reach power either indulge in corruption or destructive urges or both. Or are just grifters. Thats something Wokism and marxism have in common.
The core of marxism/wokism is that the reality we live in is a lie perpetrated by the ruling class and so it must be utterly burned to the ground, and that in it of itself will cause the truth and justice of the "real world" to rise up.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism?
Wokism and its antecedents were always corporate-friendly Marxism. The CIA promoted Frankfurt School Marxism, and later French Postmodernism, because it was an effective tool against Communism and the USSR. The capitalists still oppose actual Marxism (not that this makes actual Marxism a good idea) because they fear class struggle and find Wokism useful to prevent cross-racial class consciousness.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism?
Its a mystery that we will never be able to solve.
It reminds me a bit of an interview I saw with Jordan Peterson:
-But these campus protestors, why do you keep calling them communists?
-Well, they were waving hammer and sickle flags
😄
Quote from: S'mon on February 09, 2022, 06:04:47 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism?
Wokism and its antecedents were always corporate-friendly Marxism.
I'm no fan of Marxism, but this sort of strengthen's Mistwell's point, rather than refuting it: "corporate-friendly Marxism" is along the lines of "Satan-worshiping Christianity." Even if nothing else has changed — especially if nothing else has changed — someone at some point got very confused about what they were supposed to be believing.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same? Kotaku isn't Marxist - they're wokist. They are ruthless capitalists - they just want the woke dollars and that's the capitalist niche they've carved out for themselves.
People calling this clickbait were correct - this whole thing is manufactured by a woke capitalist company trying to get more ad dollars by triggering people on all sides of the wokism debate to click on their article.
Why are you deliberately turning this political?
To answer your earlier question, it is because well-known leaders of these movements say that they are.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 09, 2022, 08:00:52 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 09, 2022, 06:04:47 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism?
Wokism and its antecedents were always corporate-friendly Marxism.
I'm no fan of Marxism, but this sort of strengthen's Mistwell's point, rather than refuting it: "corporate-friendly Marxism" is along the lines of "Satan-worshiping Christianity." Even if nothing else has changed — especially if nothing else has changed — someone at some point got very confused about what they were supposed to be believing.
Crazy right?! It's almost like Marxists are self-contradictory, hypocritical bags of shit without any real coherence to their laughably poorly thought out 'worldview' other than a desire for power and an excuse for their own failures!
Who'd've thunk!?
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on February 09, 2022, 03:16:19 PM
I do think the whole "white people visiting Arabian theme park" is overdone at this point. What about all the stories of Arabian heroes going on adventures in the exotic lands of Hyperborea?
(I say this with tongue firmly in cheek.)
You say tongue in cheek, but I think it could be pretty cool to have a Stygian group in a Conan adventure. I'm also reminded of Crichton's Eaters of the Dead, or 13th Warrior for people who only saw the movie, for an Arab protagonist hanging with Vikings doing cool stuff. Of course, any group streaming a bunch of not-Arab players trying to roleplay Arab characters would be turbo-canceled for it, super problematic, appropriation, etc.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same? Kotaku isn't Marxist - they're wokist. They are ruthless capitalists - they just want the woke dollars and that's the capitalist niche they've carved out for themselves.
People calling this clickbait were correct - this whole thing is manufactured by a woke capitalist company trying to get more ad dollars by triggering people on all sides of the wokism debate to click on their article.
Greetings!
Well, S'mon, Jeff, and Shrieking Banshee schooled you very well on Wokism's similarities, commonalities, and roots in Marxism. "Wokism" clearly has its philosophical and ideological roots in Marxism. Anyone that can't or won't see that salient truth...is simply blind.
Practically speaking, anyone that identifies with being "Woke" is in fact, synonymous with being a fucking Marxist--regardless of whether or not they themselves actually comprehend that, or admit it.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on February 09, 2022, 03:16:19 PM
I do think the whole "white people visiting Arabian theme park" is overdone at this point. What about all the stories of Arabian heroes going on adventures in the exotic lands of Hyperborea?
(I say this with tongue firmly in cheek.)
(https://thegrinnellbeowulf.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/13th-warrior-banderas-2.png)
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 09, 2022, 08:00:52 PM
I'm no fan of Marxism, but this sort of strengthen's Mistwell's point, rather than refuting it: "corporate-friendly Marxism" is along the lines of "Satan-worshiping Christianity." Even if nothing else has changed — especially if nothing else has changed — someone at some point got very confused about what they were supposed to be believing.
Oh, definitely.
Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?
I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.
Marxism hasn't stayed frozen in a bubble since he died. And wokies and even Marxists don't necessarily follow the dictonary definition of Marxism to the letter.
James Lindsay has done the homework of digging into the whole Frankfurt School of activist bullshit thought and how while Marx hasn't directly influenced wokism, the "descendants" of Marxist ideology have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SspHK0qI_CM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same? Kotaku isn't Marxist - they're wokist. They are ruthless capitalists - they just want the woke dollars and that's the capitalist niche they've carved out for themselves.
The greatest teardown I've ever seen about the BLM protests were written by a black Marxist.
So the author is a no talent designer of SWANA origin, who roasts a show made by a group of friends playing D&D.
Eh, I'm not gonna get heated over it, I'll just dismiss it outright.
Quote from: Cat the Bounty Smuggler on February 09, 2022, 08:00:52 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 09, 2022, 06:04:47 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism?
Wokism and its antecedents were always corporate-friendly Marxism.
I'm no fan of Marxism, but this sort of strengthen's Mistwell's point, rather than refuting it: "corporate-friendly Marxism" is along the lines of "Satan-worshiping Christianity." Even if nothing else has changed — especially if nothing else has changed — someone at some point got very confused about what they were supposed to be believing.
True, but I think what's happening here is big corporations trying to play along with the zeitgeist, even if they are being complete hypocrites. In some cases the leaders of the corporations were lefty "idealists" in their younger years, so they know exactly how to cater to those people (my father knows at least one guy like this).
Folks. Wokeism *is* Marxism. Send me a PM for a pretty good link resource I can refer. I have about 20 but one in particular gets it's zeitgeist really well.
Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?
I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.
How do they even do that? Being woke inherently means you believe in "more" rights for some minorities over other majorities. How is that compatible with any precepts of marxism? How do you offer a job to a transgendered African Muslim in a wheel chair over a old white male if the goal of Marxism is to treat them all as exactly equal in terms of the lowest common denominator? In Marxism, they're both supposed to get equal level shitting jobs and stand/sit in line for the Government cheese.
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 09, 2022, 08:04:40 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same? Kotaku isn't Marxist - they're wokist. They are ruthless capitalists - they just want the woke dollars and that's the capitalist niche they've carved out for themselves.
People calling this clickbait were correct - this whole thing is manufactured by a woke capitalist company trying to get more ad dollars by triggering people on all sides of the wokism debate to click on their article.
Why are you deliberately turning this political?
Me? How is Shark's constant calling them Marxist not "turning this political?" Is Marxism now considered "not political"? I gotta say, that's a hard sell there Jeff but I'd be curious to hear your argument.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:10:25 PM
Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?
I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.
How do they even do that? Being woke inherently means you believe in "more" rights for some minorities over other majorities. How is that compatible with any precepts of marxism? How do you offer a job to a transgendered African Muslim in a wheel chair over a old white male if the goal of Marxism is to treat them all as exactly equal in terms of the lowest common denominator? In Marxism, they're both supposed to get equal level shitting jobs and stand/sit in line for the Government cheese.
No their issue is an evolved Marxist framing of reality that sees all outcomes as a result of class struggle. The oppressed 'group with identity X' must be empowered to extend the revolution aimed at destroying the oppressors who cannot be made 'equal' since they have no redeeming value.
It is not as much political as it is philosophical at its roots. Things have come to be expressed in politics, yes, a natural outgrowth of this thin and false view of reality.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:10:25 PM
Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?
I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.
How do they even do that? Being woke inherently means you believe in "more" rights for some minorities over other majorities. How is that compatible with any precepts of marxism? How do you offer a job to a transgendered African Muslim in a wheel chair over a old white male if the goal of Marxism is to treat them all as exactly equal in terms of the lowest common denominator? In Marxism, they're both supposed to get equal level shitting jobs and stand/sit in line for the Government cheese.
Because the more widespread form of marxism is social marxism. I would also say, I have no doubt there are a shit load of "marxists" who have not read Das Capital, or anything else Marx wrote. To be fair Das Capital is not exactly fun to read, but I would think if people are going to identify themselves as a thing, they need to at least read the books.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 10, 2022, 03:01:49 AM
Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?
I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.
Marxism hasn't stayed frozen in a bubble since he died.
But it has! That's why they have OTHER TERMS FOR OTHER TYPES OF COMMUNISM. If you call someone a Stalinist or Maoist or Troskyist or shit there are 15 different flavors of Leninism alone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies)! Marxist doesn't mean "Any generic form of communism I happen to be thinking of" it actually does in fact have a frozen fixed meaning which didn't change over time. THAT'S WHY IT WAS NAMED AFTER A SPECIFIC GUY WHO WROTE A SPECIFIC THEORY.
And I mentioned earlier a pretty clean example from modern American politics. Wokists do not like Bernie Sanders because Bernie Sanders thinks Identity Politics is all bullshit which is solved by socialist practices which don't care what your skin color or gender or other identity might be. These are not the same things and lumping them all together in "People who disagree with my view of the world" is incredibly non productive.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:13:44 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 09, 2022, 08:04:40 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same? Kotaku isn't Marxist - they're wokist. They are ruthless capitalists - they just want the woke dollars and that's the capitalist niche they've carved out for themselves.
People calling this clickbait were correct - this whole thing is manufactured by a woke capitalist company trying to get more ad dollars by triggering people on all sides of the wokism debate to click on their article.
Why are you deliberately turning this political?
Me? How is Shark's constant calling them Marxist not "turning this political?" Is Marxism now considered "not political"? I gotta say, that's a hard sell there Jeff but I'd be curious to hear your argument.
No, this is you doing this. You are getting butthurt over Shark pointing out that they are Marxist and reacting.
I love that you have ignored the second part of my response to you.
Quote from: jeff37923
To answer your earlier question, it is because well-known leaders of these movements say that they are.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/
Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:10:25 PM
Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?
I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.
How do they even do that? Being woke inherently means you believe in "more" rights for some minorities over other majorities. How is that compatible with any precepts of marxism? How do you offer a job to a transgendered African Muslim in a wheel chair over a old white male if the goal of Marxism is to treat them all as exactly equal in terms of the lowest common denominator? In Marxism, they're both supposed to get equal level shitting jobs and stand/sit in line for the Government cheese.
Not sure*, but you can't have missed that BLM is Marxist can you? It's not only them, it's a thing in general.
*My guess is they just conflate "people of color", women, etc., with the downtrodden proletariat.
Says a lot that they would cancel Critical Role rather than provide a all colorful alternative that might bring people of color into the hobby the way Critical Role has done. Might make a ton of money that way.
of course such an alternative would be compared to the original and by their standards it might fall short. Better to just cancel everything rather than let that happen.
Quote from: Ruprecht on February 10, 2022, 01:00:52 PM
Says a lot that they would cancel Critical Role rather than provide a all colorful alternative that might bring people of color into the hobby the way Critical Role has done. Might make a ton of money that way.
of course such an alternative would be compared to the original and by their standards it might fall short. Better to just cancel everything rather than let that happen.
A LOT of "social justice" is really just about sheer pettiness.
Quote from: Trond on February 10, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on February 10, 2022, 01:00:52 PM
Says a lot that they would cancel Critical Role rather than provide a all colorful alternative that might bring people of color into the hobby the way Critical Role has done. Might make a ton of money that way.
of course such an alternative would be compared to the original and by their standards it might fall short. Better to just cancel everything rather than let that happen.
A LOT of "social justice" is really just about sheer pettiness.
Well, I would say more of an outright grift. It always seems to chirp the loudest at people who have deep pockets.
Quote from: Trond on February 10, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: Ruprecht on February 10, 2022, 01:00:52 PM
Says a lot that they would cancel Critical Role rather than provide a all colorful alternative that might bring people of color into the hobby the way Critical Role has done. Might make a ton of money that way.
of course such an alternative would be compared to the original and by their standards it might fall short. Better to just cancel everything rather than let that happen.
A LOT of "social justice" is really just about sheer pettiness.
Agreed. Hit the nail on the head.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:17:40 PMThese are not the same things and lumping them all together in "People who disagree with my view of the world" is incredibly non productive.
Because marxist theory is like debating the kind of cheese the moon is made out of. Sorry for lumping the garganzolites, with chedarians, but they are all unified by crazy.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on February 10, 2022, 02:01:02 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:17:40 PMThese are not the same things and lumping them all together in "People who disagree with my view of the world" is incredibly non productive.
Because marxist theory is like debating the kind of cheese the moon is made out of. Sorry for lumping the garganzolites, with chedarians, but they are all unified by crazy.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Brilliant, Shrieking Banshee! So true!
There are dozens of splinters and flavours of Marxism, Communism, et al. In the end though, so what? Like you said, they all believe that the moon is made out of cheese! ;D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:17:40 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 10, 2022, 03:01:49 AM
Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?
I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.
Marxism hasn't stayed frozen in a bubble since he died.
But it has! That's why they have OTHER TERMS FOR OTHER TYPES OF COMMUNISM. If you call someone a Stalinist or Maoist or Troskyist or shit there are 15 different flavors of Leninism alone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_communist_ideologies)! Marxist doesn't mean "Any generic form of communism I happen to be thinking of" it actually does in fact have a frozen fixed meaning which didn't change over time. THAT'S WHY IT WAS NAMED AFTER A SPECIFIC GUY WHO WROTE A SPECIFIC THEORY.
And I mentioned earlier a pretty clean example from modern American politics. Wokists do not like Bernie Sanders because Bernie Sanders thinks Identity Politics is all bullshit which is solved by socialist practices which don't care what your skin color or gender or other identity might be. These are not the same things and lumping them all together in "People who disagree with my view of the world" is incredibly non productive.
We're far afield and Punit is due to come in and start posting warnings. I'll say I disagree and if anyone wants to continue the conversation, start a new thread in his forum.
Agreed, mistwell if you wanna continue the convo lets take it to the political section.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 09, 2022, 12:19:33 PMCritical Role is not actually a roleplaying game or people actually playing a roleplaying game
I've never watched Critical Role. Why isn't it a roleplaying game?
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on February 10, 2022, 05:50:51 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 09, 2022, 12:19:33 PMCritical Role is not actually a roleplaying game or people actually playing a roleplaying game
I've never watched Critical Role. Why isn't it a roleplaying game?
I've watched it briefly. It appears to be a roleplaying game, but from previous discussion, I think Pundit's argument is that even if it isn't scripted per se, the participants are primarily motivated to put on a good show for the camera because of the fame and fortune they get. So it's fundamentally different from an RPG played just for personal enjoyment.
Okay, so kind of like the "porn isn't real sex" argument.
Critical Role is improv theater. And, respect if you are talented and able to run an entertaining improv theater. I don't consider that to be a TTRPG, however.
(https://i.imgur.com/lXdbXOu.png)
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on February 10, 2022, 05:50:51 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 09, 2022, 12:19:33 PMCritical Role is not actually a roleplaying game or people actually playing a roleplaying game
I've never watched Critical Role. Why isn't it a roleplaying game?
It is made by group of Hollywood voice actors who started broadcasting their games on social media and met a humongous success. No one knows when (or if) they stopped playing for real and started following a script. Anyway, I'm proud to say that I never watched a single episode - only some brief samples here and there.
BTW, it isn't that they are making billions. The profits are shared between them, and are what is left after paying the people behind the camera, for sure a Director, lights, the studio... They are basically a successful single-studio show.
An indirect result is the proliferation of people who, somehow, believe that the public will be interested in their games too. The quality of these "RPGs online!" ranges from boring to boringly dire. The only exception is "The Calyx" channel: four very funny girls who play Call of Cthulhu. Their play through of "The Saturnine Chalice" was both very interesting and had me in stitches (exp. when the characters' SAN collapses). Look for it on YT.
The only sticking point of that Kotaku article is, IMHO, a writer who says "I don't like this so this means that there are... uh... others... yes others who... er... I can't point to because... But there are!" Just read it and you will find all the counterpoints needed to sink the bozo
in what he wrote in the first place.
Part of the problem of anything political, besides the fact that politics sucks, is that we think in terms of binary... That there are two primary political parties when now we have more than two. We got our Marxists and our Wokists and our Conservatives and our Liberals and our Libertarians and our Communists and our Socialists and our Green Party and even our Patriotists.
We got the entire rainbow of colors here in America now.
They do boil down to Authoritarian vs Liberty though. Those are the new political divisions. Not Liberal vs Conservative.
As for Kotaku... They are just following the Woke script. Once something in America becomes a Part of American Culture it's now time to tear it down. It doesn't matter how something or someone becomes part of our culture here... This is the pattern. Look at everything in media that has become part of American culture in the last 60 to 80 year's that became really iconic (in one way or another) in our culture... D&D, Star Wars, Star Trek, World of Warcraft, Ghostbusters, The Terminator, He-Man, The MCU, the LGBT, Indiana Jones, the Comic Book Industry, the Music Industry, Critical Role (in it's own way it has become part of our culture enough to now become something to tear down), etc. At least Sony is trying to rectify the bad decision of Ghostbusters 2016.
This is what the Neo-Marxist/Woke is doing. Anything that's truly seen as part of the American culture has been targeted, in one way or another.
Personally, I'm of the mind set that any person in the USA that comes out and says they are a Marxist and hates America has declared war on America and should be shipped off to North Korea. Then they can find out what living in a real Totalitarian regime is like.
Quote from: Reckall on February 09, 2022, 05:39:26 AM
Interestingly enough, apparently this happened after it was revealed how Critical Role is financially very successful.
I wonder if another less woke company will pick it up and run with it?
Quote from: squirewaldo on February 11, 2022, 10:59:04 AM
Quote from: Reckall on February 09, 2022, 05:39:26 AM
Interestingly enough, apparently this happened after it was revealed how Critical Role is financially very successful.
I wonder if another less woke company will pick it up and run with it?
Michelle Malkin and her family are avid D&D players. It would be hysterical if they moved in on Critical Role.
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 11, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Michelle Malkin and her family are avid D&D players. It would be hysterical if they moved in on Critical Role.
She DMs 1e AD&D, I'm sure she has no interest in a 5e show.
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 11, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Quote from: squirewaldo on February 11, 2022, 10:59:04 AM
Quote from: Reckall on February 09, 2022, 05:39:26 AM
Interestingly enough, apparently this happened after it was revealed how Critical Role is financially very successful.
I wonder if another less woke company will pick it up and run with it?
Michelle Malkin and her family are avid D&D players. It would be hysterical if they moved in on Critical Role.
There is no way in hell that happens. The blowback would literally be nuclear blast level. Though I agree if it did happen, watching the mushroom cloud would be entertaining.
Quote from: S'mon on February 11, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 11, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Michelle Malkin and her family are avid D&D players. It would be hysterical if they moved in on Critical Role.
She DMs 1e AD&D, I'm sure she has no interest in a 5e show.
Greetings!
Michelle Malkin is fucking brilliant. And gorgeous, too. I loved her defense of playing D&D with orcs and whatever. Can you imagine playing in her campaign? She's such an intelligent and sharp woman, I imagine her campaign would be a blast!
I remember watching her video where she holds up her copy of the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. She crushes her enemies like Genghis Khan!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on February 11, 2022, 02:47:47 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 11, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 11, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Michelle Malkin and her family are avid D&D players. It would be hysterical if they moved in on Critical Role.
She DMs 1e AD&D, I'm sure she has no interest in a 5e show.
Greetings!
Michelle Malkin is fucking brilliant. And gorgeous, too. I loved her defense of playing D&D with orcs and whatever. Can you imagine playing in her campaign? She's such an intelligent and sharp woman, I imagine her campaign would be a blast!
I remember watching her video where she holds up her copy of the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. She crushes her enemies like Genghis Khan!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
LOL - yeah, I like her too. ;D
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 10, 2022, 12:32:28 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:13:44 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 09, 2022, 08:04:40 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!
Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.
Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.
Kotaku are a bunch of morons.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same? Kotaku isn't Marxist - they're wokist. They are ruthless capitalists - they just want the woke dollars and that's the capitalist niche they've carved out for themselves.
People calling this clickbait were correct - this whole thing is manufactured by a woke capitalist company trying to get more ad dollars by triggering people on all sides of the wokism debate to click on their article.
Why are you deliberately turning this political?
Me? How is Shark's constant calling them Marxist not "turning this political?" Is Marxism now considered "not political"? I gotta say, that's a hard sell there Jeff but I'd be curious to hear your argument.
No, this is you doing this. You are getting butthurt over Shark pointing out that they are Marxist and reacting.
I love that you have ignored the second part of my response to you.
Quote from: jeff37923
To answer your earlier question, it is because well-known leaders of these movements say that they are.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/
I ignored it because we're not talking about BLM Jeff. Which I assume you understood. They named exactly who they were talking about, I responded to that, we all were on the same page about who we were all talking about, and then you came out of left field with BLM like that's germane to this gaming discussion concerning Kotaku when it's not.
Kotaku is not Marxist, Jeff. They are however woke. If you disagree, I'd love to see some cogent argument on how they are actually Marxist or not woke.
Now, why didn't you respond to my challenge? I'm not butthurt, I just think Shark is wrong. But I'd still love to know how Shark calling Kotaku Marxist is somehow not him making this a political discussion but my responding to him calling them that with disagreement makes this a political discussion? I find that an absurd spin Jeff. How can my disagreement with what he said be "political" if what he said wasn't "political" given we're both discussing the exact same thing and same word for that thing?
Quote from: Mistwell on February 11, 2022, 09:17:02 PMKotaku is not Marxist, Jeff. They are however woke. If you disagree, I'd love to see some cogent argument on how they are actually Marxist or not woke.
Again, we all agreed to take it elsewhere. I know your butthurt because commies like to distance themselves from any bad PR with word games, but take it to RPG pundits own forum if we want to discuss this further.
Considering how often some of the members love to virtue signal.
Couldnt happen to a 'nicer' bunch of people.
No. Really. They thought they were part of the cult and then found out that the cult MUST have its BLOOD sacrifices. And fellow members who dont pass the latest purity test will be eaten.
Course we all know they will one way or another dodge the bullet. Either by throwing one of their own under the bus. Excessive grovelling and "diversifying" for the cult. Or just waiting for everyone to conveniently forget this happened just like everyone conveniently forgot what CR has done to others.
QuoteThis may seem like an overly cynical and bad-faith interpretation of what Critical Role is doing with this new campaign. But real, respectful depictions of the Arab world and of SWANA cultures are few and far between. And we aren't the ones who have the resources to tell our stories yet. We're hired to help white creators avoid mistakes and to absolve them of guilt, to shield them from criticism and feel grateful we're even allowed behind the curtain.
This is an
amazing quote. Literally just outright saying "you must fill your stories with people of color or I will cancel you, but you can't properly depict the culture of people of color because you are white, so you must hire me as a sensitivity consultant, but after you do, I will still cancel you anyway, because actually I should be in charge of everything you worked hard to create and making all your money, because I am Asian and you are not."
These are the kind of people the Critical Role cast willing got in bed with. You would think they would wake up and say "nah, not playing this game any more" when the monster they created finally turns on them and
openly announces "this was a trap and a grift from the beginning, nothing you do will ever satisfy us, nor do we believe in forgiveness or redemption, so we're never going to stop taking until we suck you dry." But depressingly, experience shows that most woke people are cowards and ideologues, and will put up with any amount of abuse as long as they can keep punching down on those lower in the victimhood hierarchy than they are.
The anime "Legend of Vox Machina" is doing well on Amazon Prime, which is the prime group of players.
And yeah, they were mostly white. But guest players weren't always, and the current line-up is a bit more diverse, IIRC.
The voice cast of the side characters is fairly diverse (I keep waiting for the King to go "BOOYAH!")
But seriously, this started as a birthday game for Liam, and halfway through the follow-up campaign they started streaming.
And now they've made millions KS a 10-episode anime, which Amazon then bought an additional 14 episodes to make 2 seasons of the show.
I don't think it's scripted as some have suggested, but it's definitely a professional show.
(You're not going to convince me a pregnant woman spent 4 hours each session, never needing to go to the bathroom. Never ever.)
TL:DR version: Kotaku is trash, just as they ever were.
Quote from: S'mon on February 11, 2022, 03:03:14 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 11, 2022, 02:47:47 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 11, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 11, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Michelle Malkin and her family are avid D&D players. It would be hysterical if they moved in on Critical Role.
She DMs 1e AD&D, I'm sure she has no interest in a 5e show.
Greetings!
Michelle Malkin is fucking brilliant. And gorgeous, too. I loved her defense of playing D&D with orcs and whatever. Can you imagine playing in her campaign? She's such an intelligent and sharp woman, I imagine her campaign would be a blast!
I remember watching her video where she holds up her copy of the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. She crushes her enemies like Genghis Khan!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
LOL - yeah, I like her too. ;D
I wonder if Malkin would guest star on Inappropriate Characters?
Quote from: Mistwell on February 11, 2022, 09:17:02 PM
Kotaku is not Marxist, Jeff. They are however woke. If you disagree, I'd love to see some cogent argument on how they are actually Marxist or not woke.
I'm pretty sure that if a neutral person were to ask every single employee of Kotaku "would you define your political views as Marxist?" they would all say yes.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 12, 2022, 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 11, 2022, 03:03:14 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 11, 2022, 02:47:47 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 11, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 11, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Michelle Malkin and her family are avid D&D players. It would be hysterical if they moved in on Critical Role.
She DMs 1e AD&D, I'm sure she has no interest in a 5e show.
Greetings!
Michelle Malkin is fucking brilliant. And gorgeous, too. I loved her defense of playing D&D with orcs and whatever. Can you imagine playing in her campaign? She's such an intelligent and sharp woman, I imagine her campaign would be a blast!
I remember watching her video where she holds up her copy of the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. She crushes her enemies like Genghis Khan!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
LOL - yeah, I like her too. ;D
I wonder if Malkin would guest star on Inappropriate Characters?
Contact her and ask. You lose nothing by doing so.
I think that she would seriously consider it, because that seems to be the kind of sense of humor that she has. Although you may have to talk to her agent or publicist or whatever, you probably won't be able to initially contact her directly.
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 12, 2022, 05:59:12 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 12, 2022, 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 11, 2022, 03:03:14 PM
Quote from: SHARK on February 11, 2022, 02:47:47 PM
Quote from: S'mon on February 11, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 11, 2022, 01:37:08 PM
Michelle Malkin and her family are avid D&D players. It would be hysterical if they moved in on Critical Role.
She DMs 1e AD&D, I'm sure she has no interest in a 5e show.
Greetings!
Michelle Malkin is fucking brilliant. And gorgeous, too. I loved her defense of playing D&D with orcs and whatever. Can you imagine playing in her campaign? She's such an intelligent and sharp woman, I imagine her campaign would be a blast!
I remember watching her video where she holds up her copy of the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide. She crushes her enemies like Genghis Khan!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
LOL - yeah, I like her too. ;D
I wonder if Malkin would guest star on Inappropriate Characters?
Contact her and ask. You lose nothing by doing so.
I think that she would seriously consider it, because that seems to be the kind of sense of humor that she has. Although you may have to talk to her agent or publicist or whatever, you probably won't be able to initially contact her directly.
She has a public email michellemalkininvestigates@protonmail.com - I don't know if her agent filters it; IME I've emailed people of similar fame & spoken with them directly ok. Jounalists' profession makes them pretty easy to contact.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 12, 2022, 03:33:01 PM
I'm pretty sure that if a neutral person were to ask every single employee of Kotaku "would you define your political views as Marxist?" they would all say yes.
They would also say that they're 100% behind tolerance and inclusion, but their behaviour says otherwise.
I'm pretty sure that there are a very large number of people who would define themselves as Christians and/or Patriots if asked those same questions. While an impartial observer who knew what these labels were supposed to mean would disagree.
Marxism is used by the Right in the same way that
<whatever>-ism is used by the Left. It's long since stopped meaning what it originally meant and is now just a since catch-all label for anything the person using it doesn't like.
"Nazis are Bad. Because Nazis are Bad I don't like them. I don't like this person. He must therefore be Bad, and if he's Bad he must be a Nazi."
Substituting Marxist for Nazi doesn't make that train of logic any more sound. When people on this site take offence with the use of Marxist they generally aren't defending Marx. They're often saying "This person is not a Marxist but that doesn't mean I don't agree they're trash".
>Critical Role cancelled by Kotaku...
Praise Kek.
Quote from: Tantavalist on February 12, 2022, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 12, 2022, 03:33:01 PM
I'm pretty sure that if a neutral person were to ask every single employee of Kotaku "would you define your political views as Marxist?" they would all say yes.
They would also say that they're 100% behind tolerance and inclusion, but their behaviour says otherwise.
I'm pretty sure that there are a very large number of people who would define themselves as Christians and/or Patriots if asked those same questions. While an impartial observer who knew what these labels were supposed to mean would disagree.
Marxism is used by the Right in the same way that <whatever>-ism is used by the Left. It's long since stopped meaning what it originally meant and is now just a since catch-all label for anything the person using it doesn't like.
"Nazis are Bad. Because Nazis are Bad I don't like them. I don't like this person. He must therefore be Bad, and if he's Bad he must be a Nazi."
Substituting Marxist for Nazi doesn't make that train of logic any more sound. When people on this site take offence with the use of Marxist they generally aren't defending Marx. They're often saying "This person is not a Marxist but that doesn't mean I don't agree they're trash".
I'm not sure... is this "Whataboutism" or "Tu Quoque"? How about we just limit the discussion to people who self-identify as Marxists, like the original organizers of BLM. Is it OK to criticize them for their allegiance to that moronic ideology?
Quote from: Eirikrautha on February 12, 2022, 09:43:01 PM
Quote from: Tantavalist on February 12, 2022, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 12, 2022, 03:33:01 PM
I'm pretty sure that if a neutral person were to ask every single employee of Kotaku "would you define your political views as Marxist?" they would all say yes.
They would also say that they're 100% behind tolerance and inclusion, but their behaviour says otherwise.
I'm pretty sure that there are a very large number of people who would define themselves as Christians and/or Patriots if asked those same questions. While an impartial observer who knew what these labels were supposed to mean would disagree.
Marxism is used by the Right in the same way that <whatever>-ism is used by the Left. It's long since stopped meaning what it originally meant and is now just a since catch-all label for anything the person using it doesn't like.
"Nazis are Bad. Because Nazis are Bad I don't like them. I don't like this person. He must therefore be Bad, and if he's Bad he must be a Nazi."
Substituting Marxist for Nazi doesn't make that train of logic any more sound. When people on this site take offence with the use of Marxist they generally aren't defending Marx. They're often saying "This person is not a Marxist but that doesn't mean I don't agree they're trash".
I'm not sure... is this "Whataboutism" or "Tu Quoque"? How about we just limit the discussion to people who self-identify as Marxists, like the original organizers of BLM. Is it OK to criticize them for their allegiance to that moronic ideology?
Nope. They aren't "True Marxists".
I don't like using the term Marxist for just this reason. There's so many flavors of neo-marxism that it's impossible to avoid the nitwits who go "Ahktually!"
Since the goalpost seems to be about what "true Marxism" is, I'd like some wisdom on what that really means (literally asking in sincerity since I've studied and taught about Marx for 30 years, this issue interest me).
Quote from: soundchaser on February 13, 2022, 09:17:09 AM
Since the goalpost seems to be about what "true Marxism" is, I'd like some wisdom on what that really means (literally asking in sincerity since I've studied and taught about Marx for 30 years, this issue interest me).
If you talk to a modern Marxist and ask them to provide an example of a working Marxist economy that didn't lead to piles of dead they'll eventually say that a True Marxist nation does not, and never has, existed, but nexts time they'll get it right.
True Marxism is a fantasy created by Marxists to justify their continued love of a failed and bloody ideology. As far as I can tell modern Marxists are political hipsters that use Marxist dogma to make themselves seem edgy to the uninformed.
General discussions about Marxism outside the context of the gaming hobby are off-topic. Do not continue with them.
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 09, 2022, 12:19:33 PM
Critical Role is not actually a roleplaying game or people actually playing a roleplaying game.
Of course it's people playing a roleplaying game. That's literally what it is. The style of play may be different from what you do in your games, but that doesn't mean it's not a roleplaying game. Even if the newer seasons are scripted, that still doesn't mean it's not a roleplaying game.
I don't understand your narrow and myopic view of what constitutes a "real" roleplaying game.
Based on some of your descriptions of how you run your games, I can believe that they're lots of fun and good examples of in-depth world and character development, but that still doesn't mean that other styles of play, including CR, are any less "real".
Take care,
Lou Prosperi
Quote from: LouProsperi on February 14, 2022, 12:02:59 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 09, 2022, 12:19:33 PM
Critical Role is not actually a roleplaying game or people actually playing a roleplaying game.
Of course it's people playing a roleplaying game. That's literally what it is. The style of play may be different from what you do in your games, but that doesn't mean it's not a roleplaying game. Even if the newer seasons are scripted, that still doesn't mean it's not a roleplaying game.
I don't understand your narrow and myopic view of what constitutes a "real" roleplaying game.
Based on some of your descriptions of how you run your games, I can believe that they're lots of fun and good examples of in-depth world and character development, but that still doesn't mean that other styles of play, including CR, are any less "real".
Take care,
Lou Prosperi
I think he is implying they may rehearse to a degree, and toss around ideas as to how to react to events that are going to come up in the game. Being professional actors, and being interested in maximum impact/views/money I think they are really playing a game the same way a reality show is filming reality. Now it could be they are doing the first time ever cold run every time on camera. I do not think that is the case.
I can't speak to how critical role functions behind the scenes these days. But I can say with certainty it was not scripted in the beginning, and they were not rehearsing in the beginning.
Quote from: LouProsperi on February 14, 2022, 12:02:59 PM
Even if the newer seasons are scripted, that still doesn't mean it's not a roleplaying game.
What? How would a scripted show be a role-playing game?
As for CR, I only saw parts of their first campaign. I did not see evidence of scripted television.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 14, 2022, 01:25:22 PM
I can't speak to how critical role functions behind the scenes these days. But I can say with certainty it was not scripted in the beginning, and they were not rehearsing in the beginning.
I would agree with that.
eh
We talked about this subject in the latest episode of Inappropriate Characters.
Quote from: FingerRod on February 14, 2022, 01:26:59 PM
Quote from: LouProsperi on February 14, 2022, 12:02:59 PM
Even if the newer seasons are scripted, that still doesn't mean it's not a roleplaying game.
What? How would a scripted show be a role-playing game?
As for CR, I only saw parts of their first campaign. I did not see evidence of scripted television.
Storygamer/Forge/Swine 101: An actor in a movie is playing a really real RPG because they are "role playing"... Remember kids. Reading a book and watching grass grow are also really real RPGs according to these nuts.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 14, 2022, 01:45:39 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 14, 2022, 01:25:22 PM
I can't speak to how critical role functions behind the scenes these days. But I can say with certainty it was not scripted in the beginning, and they were not rehearsing in the beginning.
I would agree with that.
Same and even now I am not sure they are scripting. At this point after so long they likely know eachother well enough that they can tell some beats are coming and have something in mind just in case. Others it probably just comes naturally.
That was a bit misleading. I thought "cancelled" meant actually cancelled by someone with the power to do so, as in "Futurama has been cancelled by the network". Kotaku just published an article by an irritable (and not terribly well-informed) person, right? This hasn't actually had any consequences, has it?
Interestingly, the casus belli in this particular case seems to be the same transgression that led to the crusade a few months back (... oops) against Oriental Adventures among others: That white gamers dare to incorporate cultural elements from non-European regions of the world into their fantasy universe, something only people with a genetic heritage connecting them to those regions, should be allowed to do. Do I get that right?
It's a really pernicious trend because its endgame pretty much can only be that single-flavor modern D&D-Type European(+ black folk)-ish, old-timey-ish inoffensive bog standard fantasy remains as the only viable setting for RPGs.
Quote from: Wulfhelm on February 15, 2022, 08:02:10 AM
That was a bit misleading. I thought "cancelled" meant actually cancelled by someone with the power to do so, as in "Futurama has been cancelled by the network". Kotaku just published an article by an irritable (and not terribly well-informed) person, right? This hasn't actually had any consequences, has it?
Interestingly, the casus belli in this particular case seems to be the same transgression that led to the crusade a few months back (... oops) against Oriental Adventures among others: That white gamers dare to incorporate cultural elements from non-European regions of the world into their fantasy universe, something only people with a genetic heritage connecting them to those regions, should be allowed to do. Do I get that right?
It's a really pernicious trend because its endgame pretty much can only be that single-flavor modern D&D-Type European(+ black folk)-ish, old-timey-ish inoffensive bog standard fantasy remains as the only viable setting for RPGs.
I think Kotaku is completely toothless at this point. Cancel these days seems to include attempts to get that removal wagon rolling as well as the actual act of removing someone from a platform. I have seen it used quite a bit around Joe Rogan, but it seems as if Joe is Godzilla and all the people attacking him are the Japanese military.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 15, 2022, 09:18:22 AM
I think Kotaku is completely toothless at this point. Cancel these days seems to include attempts to get that removal wagon rolling as well as the actual act of removing someone from a platform. I have seen it used quite a bit around Joe Rogan, but it seems as if Joe is Godzilla and all the people attacking him are the Japanese military.
Kotaku used to be a solid gaming review and geek culture site. Then the ragebait articles came rolling out and those hateclick $$$ kept pouring in. Now anyone with a soul has left the company and site and it's a shell of it's former self and useful for only shitting on anything that doesn't agree with the Tenants of Mao and Social Justice (which ironically are not mutually coexistant).
I wonder how many of these authors are Caucasian and why they have not given their jobs to those BiPOC's they screech about are sorely misrepresented in the industry?
Quote from: FingerRod on February 14, 2022, 01:26:59 PM
Quote from: LouProsperi on February 14, 2022, 12:02:59 PM
Even if the newer seasons are scripted, that still doesn't mean it's not a roleplaying game.
What? How would a scripted show be a role-playing game?
As for CR, I only saw parts of their first campaign. I did not see evidence of scripted television.
I should clarify. Obviously if everything is scripted in detail, including every character action, dialog, and dice results, then it's not really a roleplaying game as much as it is a portrayal of a roleplaying game.
I meant scripted to mean that the overall flow of events were planned, but not specific individual character actions, dialog, or dice roll results.
More to the point, I think a fairly broad definition of what constitutes a roleplaying game is better for the hobby and the industry. Roleplaying games can take many forms.
Lou Prosperi
Quote from: RebelSky on February 11, 2022, 10:41:28 AM
They do boil down to Authoritarian vs Liberty though. Those are the new political divisions. Not Liberal vs Conservative.
Not even so new. Here's the great Poul Anderson from
Sensitive Man in
1954:
Quote
"... in the United States [said Dalgetty] ... the lines today are drawn not by nations or parties, but by philosophies, if you wish. Two views of man's destiny, cutting across all national, political, racial, and religious lines."
"And what are those two views?" asked the stranger quietly.
"You might call them libertarian and totalitarian, though the latter don't necessarily think of themselves as such."
Quote from: Wulfhelm on February 15, 2022, 08:02:10 AM
That was a bit misleading. I thought "cancelled" meant actually cancelled by someone with the power to do so, as in "Futurama has been cancelled by the network". Kotaku just published an article by an irritable (and not terribly well-informed) person, right? This hasn't actually had any consequences, has it?
After posting it I thought that "gets #cancelled by Kotaku" would have better conveyed that it was an attempt at cancel culture (even if the word "culture" associated to Critical Role seems debatable). Something to keep in mind for the next time.
Quote from: Reckall on February 15, 2022, 03:38:28 PM
After posting it I thought that "gets #cancelled by Kotaku" would have better conveyed that it was an attempt at cancel culture (even if the word "culture" associated to Critical Role seems debatable). Something to keep in mind for the next time.
So has there been any call of boycott or shut down Critical Role over this critique? It seems like the comments on the Kotaku article are generally negative of the critique, which doesn't call for boycott.
Quote from: RebelSky on February 11, 2022, 10:41:28 AM
We got the entire rainbow of colors here in America now.
They do boil down to Authoritarian vs Liberty though. Those are the new political divisions. Not Liberal vs Conservative.
Quote from: RebelSky on February 11, 2022, 10:41:28 AM
Personally, I'm of the mind set that any person in the USA that comes out and says they are a Marxist and hates America has declared war on America and should be shipped off to North Korea. Then they can find out what living in a real Totalitarian regime is like.
We still have a liberal and conservative side, where each likes to pretend that it's only the other that is authoritarian. Case in point, RebelSky openly says that people of opposing political views should be forcibly shipped off rather than allowed to exercise their right to free speech.
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 11:14:03 PM
We still have a liberal and conservative side, where each likes to pretend that it's only the other that is authoritarian. Case in point, RebelSky openly says that people of opposing political views should be forcibly shipped off rather than allowed to exercise their right to free speech.
Horseshit. This is a false equivalence.
Edited: to steer my contrarian nature back towards the topic at hand and obey forum rules.
Should Kotaku still be around in 5 years I have a feeling it will be after they have a round of firing and hire people who just want to report on the quality and nature of content and no longer it's political flavor in current year. I can at least hope this starts to happen.
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 11:14:03 PM
We still have a liberal and conservative side, where each likes to pretend that it's only the other that is authoritarian.
Intellectual dishonesty from jhkim? This is jeff37923's complete lack of surprise.
The fact that you can press F to doubt the intention of conservatives on this website and not get banned, especially when it has a bad rep on TBP and Reddit, is telling of which side leans more towards authoritarianism.
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 16, 2022, 08:16:29 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 11:14:03 PM
We still have a liberal and conservative side, where each likes to pretend that it's only the other that is authoritarian.
Intellectual dishonesty from jhkim? This is jeff37923's complete lack of surprise.
Greetings!
*Laughing* Cheers, Jeff! Your commentary had me roaring with laughter over my coffee. So true, huh?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: oggsmash on February 16, 2022, 08:10:46 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 11:14:03 PM
We still have a liberal and conservative side, where each likes to pretend that it's only the other that is authoritarian. Case in point, RebelSky openly says that people of opposing political views should be forcibly shipped off rather than allowed to exercise their right to free speech.
Well....being an avowed Marxist is sort of like declaring your loyalty to a foreign power and admitting you will do everything you can to bring about the downfall of the United States. Though I am not for clapping up people who proclaim their out right traitorous intentions, saying it is simply an opposing political view is really underselling the truth.
My emphasis above. You can attempt to make that comparison, but it isn't actually true.
I don't support communism, but I support free speech. People have the right to advocate for communism, nazism, white supremacy, and plenty of other causes that I don't agree with. The U.S. has had a Communist party for over a century, and it has always been legal to be a member. There are some who want to move away from the American tradition of free speech and make being a communist illegal -- and I oppose that.
Being a supporter of free speech doesn't mean only supporting the speech you agree with. It means supporting speech that one disagrees with.
EDITED to again steer myself back on track and away from other topics.
apologies jhkim for editing the prior post and this one, we can continue such a discussion elsewhere.
Authoritarian type behavior in entertainment and media is only coming from one side. When they have decided there are instant firing offenses that some people might not even no exist due to their murky nature. The thing is, to be an authoritarian, you have to have actual authority. Regarding the big boys in the RPG industry, there is only a viewpoint from one position. Now, this might be that way for a long time, or there may be some shift. If anything I think there is going to be a drift back towards middle at some point as enough talented people get a mouth full of bad flavor. Like the comic industry where now there are talented people funding their own work, they only have to answer to the fans. The ability to produce media and books without gatekeepers has already started this sort of thing. At some point, there will be enough of them together to be big themselves.
There absolutely are authoritarians on both sides. I support free speech for all.
But being an avowed marxist should get you the same respect that saying your a avowed eugenicist.
Quote from: Chris24601 on February 09, 2022, 12:38:48 PM
Proof that no matter how far left you move, you'll never be woke enough to avoid being canceled once they've run out targets further to the right in their never-ending quest to achieve drive past the event horizon of madness into the Leftist singularity.
The sooner you get off the roller coaster, be true to yourself, and find alternate funding/promotion than Leftists bastions the better off your rpg and rpg-adjacent products will be.
All right 92%, imagine the whole damn mess is like a huge circle. This place is as far to the right as it thinks is safe.
Now what happens if that circle moves left? DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH soon this site will be outside the circle.
So it can either get banned for hate speech- saying ANYTHING bad about the woke- or move to the left.
Hey, relatively it's still to the right, problem is today's conservative is yesterday's liberal. And the 92% won't stand firm so- on it goes. If a show like Critical Role ain't safe what makes you think YOU are?
Quote from: Redwanderer on February 16, 2022, 04:08:15 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on February 09, 2022, 12:38:48 PM
Proof that no matter how far left you move, you'll never be woke enough to avoid being canceled once they've run out targets further to the right in their never-ending quest to achieve drive past the event horizon of madness into the Leftist singularity.
The sooner you get off the roller coaster, be true to yourself, and find alternate funding/promotion than Leftists bastions the better off your rpg and rpg-adjacent products will be.
All right 92%, imagine the whole damn mess is like a huge circle. This place is as far to the right as it thinks is safe.
Now what happens if that circle moves left? DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH soon this site will be outside the circle.
So it can either get banned for hate speech- saying ANYTHING bad about the woke- or move to the left.
Hey, relatively it's still to the right, problem is today's conservative is yesterday's liberal. And the 92% won't stand firm so- on it goes. If a show like Critical Role ain't safe what makes you think YOU are?
Oh, my books/game system will be released pre-canceled by the Left; for a cover with heroic white men and a hot red-headed sorceress on it and pushing the values of "having fun" and "embracing traditional heroic virtues."
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on February 16, 2022, 03:16:44 PM
There absolutely are authoritarians on both sides. I support free speech for all.
But being an avowed marxist should get you the same respect that saying your a avowed eugenicist.
Cool. I'm good with that.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 16, 2022, 02:46:49 PM
apologies jhkim for editing the prior post and this one, we can continue such a discussion elsewhere.
Authoritarian type behavior in entertainment and media is only coming from one side. When they have decided there are instant firing offenses that some people might not even no exist due to their murky nature. The thing is, to be an authoritarian, you have to have actual authority. Regarding the big boys in the RPG industry, there is only a viewpoint from one position.
No problem about the first part. I sent you a PM about the previous point, which seemed more off-topic. Previously, I was speaking more about society in general than about only within entertainment. I would agree that liberals are more dominant within modern-day entertainment companies.
As for authoritarianism within companies... Traditionally, conservatives have tended to favor "at will" employment, where the employer can fire someone at any time for any reason. The push for employee rights has generally come more from liberals, who grew up used to the idea that if you say stuff that pisses the boss off, they fire you. What has been changing is that employers used to be much more solidly conservative, and now it is more mixed. Even so, conservatives still seem to mostly side with "at will" employment.
Quote from: jhkim on February 16, 2022, 06:29:49 PM
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on February 16, 2022, 03:16:44 PM
There absolutely are authoritarians on both sides. I support free speech for all.
But being an avowed marxist should get you the same respect that saying your a avowed eugenicist.
Cool. I'm good with that.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 16, 2022, 02:46:49 PM
apologies jhkim for editing the prior post and this one, we can continue such a discussion elsewhere.
Authoritarian type behavior in entertainment and media is only coming from one side. When they have decided there are instant firing offenses that some people might not even no exist due to their murky nature. The thing is, to be an authoritarian, you have to have actual authority. Regarding the big boys in the RPG industry, there is only a viewpoint from one position.
No problem about the first part. I sent you a PM about the previous point, which seemed more off-topic. Previously, I was speaking more about society in general than about only within entertainment. I would agree that liberals are more dominant within modern-day entertainment companies.
As for authoritarianism within companies... Traditionally, conservatives have tended to favor "at will" employment, where the employer can fire someone at any time for any reason. The push for employee rights has generally come more from liberals, who grew up used to the idea that if you say stuff that pisses the boss off, they fire you. What has been changing is that employers used to be much more solidly conservative, and now it is more mixed. Even so, conservatives still seem to mostly side with "at will" employment.
You might want to tell the very openly leftist Jeff Bezos that. Or the openly left Google, who fire you for the wrong opinion. Or Facebook, where the same happens. Or we can discuss how Google and Facebook use H1B visas to get lots of bug testing from chinese and Indian coders while paying well under market rates. Also todays leftists are not liberals. They do not understand liberty. Liberals are for tomorrow. I think you are a liberal, but you are soon to be right of center. Let's stop playing the what happened years ago game. Let's talk about today.
Edited to add: Let's also play, talk about the RPG industry if we are going to delve into authoritarian/right/left.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 09, 2022, 02:04:27 PM
Oops, late on that one. It is interesting how the woke are not interested in you until you have a lot of reach or money, or both. Then you draw like attention like flies to shit from them.
The whole Critical Role cancelled by Kotaku is a big nothing-burger.
It is literally a case of woke penis envy.
CR will just ignore Kotaku and this will go away for them.
Quote from: LouProsperi on February 14, 2022, 12:02:59 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit on February 09, 2022, 12:19:33 PM
Critical Role is not actually a roleplaying game or people actually playing a roleplaying game.
Of course it's people playing a roleplaying game. That's literally what it is. The style of play may be different from what you do in your games, but that doesn't mean it's not a roleplaying game. Even if the newer seasons are scripted, that still doesn't mean it's not a roleplaying game.
Pundit quoted a poster that said:
"Critical Role is to an actual RPG session what Porn is to sex."
Which about sums things up.
CR is very artificial on many levels.
Quote from: Zelen on February 10, 2022, 06:45:20 PM
Critical Role is improv theater. And, respect if you are talented and able to run an entertaining improv theater. I don't consider that to be a TTRPG, however.
Exactly.
You have trained actors explicitly putting on a show. It's basically improve theatre with playing an RPG as the central prop the actors and actresses bounce off of. They don't need to "script" anything as the y are all buying into the central premise of the show.
The Players all refer to them selves as "The Cast"...
Mercer's GM skills are a bit overblown. Yeah, he makes it work with a lot of players - but these are players that are there specifically to make things as smooth as possible for him as well.
He is also leading them down a guided Adventure Path. And they happily comply each step of the way. A custom written AP, but still. Every path they take is more or less plotted out a head of time.
There is no "Fuck this. let's go be pirates!" from the players.
There is: Mercer dangles obvious AP adventure hook, and Players say: "Please sir can we have some more..."
Quote from: Jaeger on February 16, 2022, 07:41:07 PM
He is also leading them down a guided Adventure Path. And they happily comply each step of the way. A custom written AP, but still. Every path they take is more or less plotted out a head of time.
100% agree. I guess my question is, are the players
told what has been plotted out for them? Complying with a rails campaign is lame, but a player showing up, even to improve, and act out a plot is theater.
I have limited experience with CR's first campaign, but there were enough twists and turns to suggest a rails campaign, but I never got the impression that they were playing from notes or anything on what would unfold. I do believe players were encouraged to construct some scenes to fit their backstory, and knew they would be added in. So maybe that is my evidence.
Regardless, the fact nobody can die, because they can all sob through snot bubbles and fake British accents until the player is brought back from the dead or saved by a God might be reason to 'cancel' them.
Quote from: FingerRod on February 17, 2022, 07:59:49 AM
...
100% agree. I guess my question is, are the players told what has been plotted out for them? Complying with a rails campaign is lame, but a player showing up, even to improve, and act out a plot is theater.
I have limited experience with CR's first campaign, but there were enough twists and turns to suggest a rails campaign, but I never got the impression that they were playing from notes or anything on what would unfold. I do believe players were encouraged to construct some scenes to fit their backstory, and knew they would be added in. So maybe that is my evidence.
...
I guess this would go under: "Define told"
For Kicks I listened to part of an episode where Mercer actually let a PC die... I skipped to the last part and even then I heard some interesting stuff when I just wanted to see their reaction when the PC bought it...
Campaign 2 Ep 26 (The one where Mercer actually kills a PC)
At 3:23:30 - Mercer pulls out a terrain map for their ambush fight.
A player proves his own idiocy and says:
"You can't know that...No way you could..."Mercer says:
"I have multiple maps prepared depending on where things happen."I can only surmise that the player is so used to "playing D&D" on rails that he doesn't even realize that he is riding them...
At 3:24:10 - Another player informs the idiot:
"He did move 4 to 5 maps into the building today." Then referring to a room in the CR building:
"... no Cast allowed in here."At 3:25:03 - Mercer breaks out the prepped map and says:
"This scenario that you've found..."Just from this brief exchange, we are able to infer several things:
1- CR does make an effort to conceal details of the AP/Episode from the players. IMHO this is important for them to maintain their credibility with their fans for being
"unscripted".
But being
#unscripted doesn't matter. Because:
2- Mercer is clearly running an AP on rails. Yes there are 'branches', but it is clear from the exchange shown that they are usually accounted for well in advance! All AP roads lead to Mercer's storytelling Rome. Mercer rarely, has to 'wing it' in reaction to the PC's actions.
3- The fact that the group walked straight into his prep
proves that they are happily following along with the overall intended "plot" of the AP in front of them. (Idiot player aside. But in their defense, I'd bet they feel this is how D&D is supposed to be 'played'...)
Props to Mercer for letting the dice fall where they may and actually killing the PC. But it is clear from the Players reactions, and some of the commentary at the end of the show that that PC death was a literal fluke of the dice and circumstances, and was not viewed as something 'on the table' in the typical CR combat...
Despite the fact that the CR team has been playing D&D for years, they still get razzed periodically for their lack of rules knowledge. What these commentators don't understand is that these players are not there to actually play
the game but have been selected for their ability to play their PC's
in-character whist following along with Mercer's AP campaigns.
The one sometime contrary player that CR had early on got booted from the show...
So no. The CR players are not "told" what has been plotted out for them ahead of time. This is very important so that they are able to keep up credibility with their fans and prove to potential naysayers that they are "unscripted". Mercer not fudging die rolls is part of the fan cred as well.
But like I said above, CR being
#unscripted does not means what its fans think it means!
The players are willingly walking through a crafted AP story on rails. They refer to themselves as "Cast". They are very much playing a role as their PC's during the 'game'.
These are all trained improv actors who can infer what direction is required of them as Mercer drops various adventures hooks and hints.
i.e. They are all onboard to put on
the show,
they are not going to go against the direction Mercer nudges them into.It is textbook improve theatre using the game of D&D and Mercer's story cues as the central prop that they all bounce off of.
(And actual improv works off of even less than that, so they are not being pressed too hard to fill their roles...)Is CR really 'playing' D&D? IMHO they are maintaining the minimum needed to make that
claim.
But it is a very Artificial, curated, and staged railroad 'game' that tells the 'story' that Mercer sets out to tell...
If some nobody described such a campaign on rails as their home game, they would be told that their group is doing D&D wrong.
And not just by Pundit.
Quote from: Jaeger on February 17, 2022, 03:29:22 PM
Quote from: FingerRod on February 17, 2022, 07:59:49 AM
...
100% agree. I guess my question is, are the players told what has been plotted out for them? Complying with a rails campaign is lame, but a player showing up, even to improve, and act out a plot is theater.
I have limited experience with CR's first campaign, but there were enough twists and turns to suggest a rails campaign, but I never got the impression that they were playing from notes or anything on what would unfold. I do believe players were encouraged to construct some scenes to fit their backstory, and knew they would be added in. So maybe that is my evidence.
...
I guess this would go under: "Define told"
For Kicks I listened to part of an episode where Mercer actually let a PC die... I skipped to the last part and even then I heard some interesting stuff when I just wanted to see their reaction when the PC bought it...
Campaign 2 Ep 26 (The one where Mercer actually kills a PC)
At 3:23:30 - Mercer pulls out a terrain map for their ambush fight.
A player proves his own idiocy and says: "You can't know that...No way you could..."
Mercer says: "I have multiple maps prepared depending on where things happen."
I can only surmise that the player is so used to "playing D&D" on rails that he doesn't even realize that he is riding them...
At 3:24:10 - Another player informs the idiot: "He did move 4 to 5 maps into the building today." Then referring to a room in the CR building: "... no Cast allowed in here."
At 3:25:03 - Mercer breaks out the prepped map and says: "This scenario that you've found..."
Just from this brief exchange, we are able to infer several things:
1- CR does make an effort to conceal details of the AP/Episode from the players. IMHO this is important for them to maintain their credibility with their fans for being "unscripted".
But being #unscripted doesn't matter. Because:
2- Mercer is clearly running an AP on rails. Yes there are 'branches', but it is clear from the exchange shown that they are usually accounted for well in advance! All AP roads lead to Mercer's storytelling Rome. Mercer rarely, has to 'wing it' in reaction to the PC's actions.
3- The fact that the group walked straight into his prep proves that they are happily following along with the overall intended "plot" of the AP in front of them. (Idiot player aside. But in their defense, I'd bet they feel this is how D&D is supposed to be 'played'...)
Props to Mercer for letting the dice fall where they may and actually killing the PC. But it is clear from the Players reactions, and some of the commentary at the end of the show that that PC death was a literal fluke of the dice and circumstances, and was not viewed as something 'on the table' in the typical CR combat...
Despite the fact that the CR team has been playing D&D for years, they still get razzed periodically for their lack of rules knowledge. What these commentators don't understand is that these players are not there to actually play the game but have been selected for their ability to play their PC's in-character whist following along with Mercer's AP campaigns.
The one sometime contrary player that CR had early on got booted from the show...
So no. The CR players are not "told" what has been plotted out for them ahead of time. This is very important so that they are able to keep up credibility with their fans and prove to potential naysayers that they are "unscripted". Mercer not fudging die rolls is part of the fan cred as well.
But like I said above, CR being #unscripted does not means what its fans think it means!
The players are willingly walking through a crafted AP story on rails. They refer to themselves as "Cast". They are very much playing a role as their PC's during the 'game'.
These are all trained improv actors who can infer what direction is required of them as Mercer drops various adventures hooks and hints.
i.e. They are all onboard to put on the show, they are not going to go against the direction Mercer nudges them into.
It is textbook improve theatre using the game of D&D and Mercer's story cues as the central prop that they all bounce off of. (And actual improv works off of even less than that, so they are not being pressed too hard to fill their roles...)
Is CR really 'playing' D&D? IMHO they are maintaining the minimum needed to make that claim.
But it is a very Artificial, curated, and staged railroad 'game' that tells the 'story' that Mercer sets out to tell...
If some nobody described such a campaign on rails as their home game, they would be told that their group is doing D&D wrong.
And not just by Pundit.
Jaeger decribes this far better in detail than I could. If you want my sound bite of it, Critical Role is the Reality TV Show about Playing DnD.
On another note, what is the appeal of CR? I tried watching a couple of episodes but couldn't get beyond 2 minutes. There's so much unnecessary banter that I didn't know how to follow all the conversations. It felt like I was listening to a bunch of people making small talk, with the occasional weird accent and dumb joke. And I pride myself on being a pretty good listener.
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 17, 2022, 04:18:56 PM
Jaeger decribes this far better in detail than I could. If you want my sound bite of it, Critical Role is the Reality TV Show about Playing DnD.
Jaeger always delivers. And your characterization is super accurate the more I think about it.
I have watched a couple of live plays on YouTube or whatever, and most of them are cringy or boring. From what I saw, CR was interesting. But that makes sense. Reality TV is also meant to be presented in a way that entertains first and foremost.
Yeah, that is a really good characterization.
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 16, 2022, 08:16:29 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 11:14:03 PM
We still have a liberal and conservative side, where each likes to pretend that it's only the other that is authoritarian.
Intellectual dishonesty from jhkim? This is jeff37923's complete lack of surprise.
I feel like we need more specific variants of Jeff's complete lack of surprised. Like Eskimo words for snow.
Maybe it's just my own long experience playing TTRPGs but I find a lot of them harder to watch precisely because I can tell how scripted they are. It reaches a point where I wonder why they don't just lose the dice and table to film a LARP session.
The Vampire the Masquerade series LA by Night was what made this click for me. Watching the first session and seeing it evolve it was clear that at first they really were running an RPG session. Things happened that clearly weren't scripted, due to the dice having an unexpected result or the players deciding to do something the GM didn't anticipate. And that was actually fun to watch.
Then it just became clear that at one point they'd decided the story was all-important and begun just having lengthy IC conversations with no dice rolling... And it started to feel like actual torture to watch it.
I think the turning point was when one player managed to get an insanely high dice roll that killed an important NPC off. That was when random chance was removed from the equation. And it was when the fun left the room because what I was watching for was how the players reacted to the random insanity that was happening to them. You know, like an actual TTRPG session.
Nine pages of discussing Kotaku cancelling critical role. Do I have to be the first to pose the question: who gives a fuck (about either of them)? Worthless Internet company. Stupid attention-whore "look at meeee!" wannabe actors. They can all get fucked.
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
Nine pages of discussing Kotaku cancelling critical role. Do I have to be the first to pose the question: who gives a fuck (about either of them)? Worthless Internet company. Stupid attention-whore "look at meeee!" wannabe actors. They can all get fucked.
Why discuss anything on here then? Why talk about the topic or anything RPG related at all?
Because We Can
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
Nine pages of discussing Kotaku cancelling critical role. Do I have to be the first to pose the question: who gives a fuck (about either of them)? Worthless Internet company. Stupid attention-whore "look at meeee!" wannabe actors. They can all get fucked.
I apologize for the kids who lingered on your lawn.
Quote from: oggsmash on February 19, 2022, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
Nine pages of discussing Kotaku cancelling critical role. Do I have to be the first to pose the question: who gives a fuck (about either of them)? Worthless Internet company. Stupid attention-whore "look at meeee!" wannabe actors. They can all get fucked.
I apologize for the kids who lingered on your lawn.
I would say linger is too strong a word. I turn on the sprinklers and the little bastards scatter like roaches when you turn the lights on...
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 12:17:39 PM
Quote from: oggsmash on February 19, 2022, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
Nine pages of discussing Kotaku cancelling critical role. Do I have to be the first to pose the question: who gives a fuck (about either of them)? Worthless Internet company. Stupid attention-whore "look at meeee!" wannabe actors. They can all get fucked.
I apologize for the kids who lingered on your lawn.
I would say linger is too strong a word. I turn on the sprinklers and the little bastards scatter like roaches when you turn the lights on...
Get the garand out. It worked for Clint with preventing a return.
Quote from: Fighterboy on February 09, 2022, 05:37:58 PM
Deleted - drunkposting is bad
"That's no excuse, but we've all done it..." ;D
Points if you can quote the movie I lifted that line from...
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 17, 2022, 04:18:56 PM
Quote from: Jaeger on February 17, 2022, 03:29:22 PM
Quote from: FingerRod on February 17, 2022, 07:59:49 AM
...
100% agree. I guess my question is, are the players told what has been plotted out for them? Complying with a rails campaign is lame, but a player showing up, even to improve, and act out a plot is theater.
I have limited experience with CR's first campaign, but there were enough twists and turns to suggest a rails campaign, but I never got the impression that they were playing from notes or anything on what would unfold. I do believe players were encouraged to construct some scenes to fit their backstory, and knew they would be added in. So maybe that is my evidence.
...
I guess this would go under: "Define told"
For Kicks I listened to part of an episode where Mercer actually let a PC die... I skipped to the last part and even then I heard some interesting stuff when I just wanted to see their reaction when the PC bought it...
------------
But it is a very Artificial, curated, and staged railroad 'game' that tells the 'story' that Mercer sets out to tell...
If some nobody described such a campaign on rails as their home game, they would be told that their group is doing D&D wrong.
And not just by Pundit.
Jaeger decribes this far better in detail than I could. If you want my sound bite of it, Critical Role is the Reality TV Show about Playing DnD.
I am not sure they are using "AP" as termed here.
This may just be a well prepared DM possibly running a module or campaign module, or equivalent. That does not make it an "AP" despite what some here love to claim.
As noted above. They may just know eachother well after so long. I tend to have a good idea what my local group will do after a while DMing for them and can prep a few contingiencies so Im not having to pull out the MM if they do something oddball. Usually just things like noting some monster stats local to the areas and so on on an index card.
Buuuut...
Odds are high that they prep things in some manner. Just what manner is anyones guess. They give sort of mixed signals. And its also possible that to keep ratings they have moved to either some scripting, or maybe just a little pre-game discussion. But its also possible that they dont need to and are just good at on the fly play.
Quote from: FingerRod on February 18, 2022, 07:40:57 AM
I have watched a couple of live plays on YouTube or whatever, and most of them are cringy or boring. From what I saw, CR was interesting. But that makes sense. Reality TV is also meant to be presented in a way that entertains first and foremost.
Yeah, that is a really good characterization.
Most players arent quite up to the same levels as these folk and some are just hamming it up for the camera because they saw CR doing it and think thats how its supposed to be. Not called the Mercer Effect for nothing.
As for why watch these plays. Same as reading adventure logs became popular in Japan. For some its just as fun to watch, or read, as it is to play.
For others its deadly boring. Or something in between.
Its like watching some of the Youtibe vids where the DM or player is describing what happened to them on an adventure. Getting to see or hear others adventures described. Or in CR's case. Being played out.
Heck, I've even collected a couple useful ideas from CR to incorporate into my own GMing (okay, minor stuff, but still).
Absorb what is useful; discard what is not.
But nobody should be taking Kotaku seriously. I mean, come on. You'd get better analysis from a half-dozen posters here when we're drunk.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 18, 2022, 05:10:00 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 16, 2022, 08:16:29 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 11:14:03 PM
We still have a liberal and conservative side, where each likes to pretend that it's only the other that is authoritarian.
Intellectual dishonesty from jhkim? This is jeff37923's complete lack of surprise.
I feel like we need more specific variants of Jeff's complete lack of surprised. Like Eskimo words for snow.
Mistwell white knighting in defense of a fellow travelers absurd social Marxist whataboutism? This is jeff37923's wry acceptance of a once relevant poster's fall from grace. Does ENworld know that its Champion has taken The Great Dirt Nap?
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
Nine pages of discussing Kotaku cancelling critical role. Do I have to be the first to pose the question: who gives a fuck (about either of them)? Worthless Internet company. Stupid attention-whore "look at meeee!" wannabe actors. They can all get fucked.
LOL how are they "stupid attention-whore "look at meee!" wannabe actors"? They're ACTUAL FUCKING WORKING ACTORS. And by "working" I don't mean Critical Role I mean they are all actual working actors who were working successful (mostly voice-over) before Critical Role was streaming. And how is an actor doing their profession "attention-whore "lool at meee!" when THAT'S THE ENTIRE FUCKING JOB. Jesus, what they hell happened to you 3cat, you never used to be this stupid.
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 21, 2022, 08:53:26 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 18, 2022, 05:10:00 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 16, 2022, 08:16:29 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 11:14:03 PM
We still have a liberal and conservative side, where each likes to pretend that it's only the other that is authoritarian.
Intellectual dishonesty from jhkim? This is jeff37923's complete lack of surprise.
I feel like we need more specific variants of Jeff's complete lack of surprised. Like Eskimo words for snow.
Mistwell white knighting in defense of a fellow travelers absurd social Marxist whataboutism? This is jeff37923's wry acceptance of a once relevant poster's fall from grace. Does ENworld know that its Champion has taken The Great Dirt Nap?
Wow you did not take that perfectly good hearted joke well Jeff.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 21, 2022, 04:01:45 PM
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
Nine pages of discussing Kotaku cancelling critical role. Do I have to be the first to pose the question: who gives a fuck (about either of them)? Worthless Internet company. Stupid attention-whore "look at meeee!" wannabe actors. They can all get fucked.
LOL how are they "stupid attention-whore "look at meee!" wannabe actors"? They're ACTUAL FUCKING WORKING ACTORS. And by "working" I don't mean Critical Role I mean they are all actual working actors who were working successful (mostly voice-over) before Critical Role was streaming. And how is an actor doing their profession "attention-whore "lool at meee!" when THAT'S THE ENTIRE FUCKING JOB. Jesus, what they hell happened to you 3cat, you never used to be this stupid.
By definition, an actor's job IS being an attention whore. How is it that you don't get it?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 21, 2022, 06:00:28 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 21, 2022, 04:01:45 PM
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
Nine pages of discussing Kotaku cancelling critical role. Do I have to be the first to pose the question: who gives a fuck (about either of them)? Worthless Internet company. Stupid attention-whore "look at meeee!" wannabe actors. They can all get fucked.
LOL how are they "stupid attention-whore "look at meee!" wannabe actors"? They're ACTUAL FUCKING WORKING ACTORS. And by "working" I don't mean Critical Role I mean they are all actual working actors who were working successful (mostly voice-over) before Critical Role was streaming. And how is an actor doing their profession "attention-whore "lool at meee!" when THAT'S THE ENTIRE FUCKING JOB. Jesus, what they hell happened to you 3cat, you never used to be this stupid.
By definition, an actor's job IS being an attention whore. How is it that you don't get it?
Not only do I get that, you're agreeing with me but apparently too fucking stupid to see that?
Quote from: Mistwell on February 21, 2022, 06:02:34 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on February 21, 2022, 06:00:28 PM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 21, 2022, 04:01:45 PM
Quote from: 3catcircus on February 19, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
Nine pages of discussing Kotaku cancelling critical role. Do I have to be the first to pose the question: who gives a fuck (about either of them)? Worthless Internet company. Stupid attention-whore "look at meeee!" wannabe actors. They can all get fucked.
LOL how are they "stupid attention-whore "look at meee!" wannabe actors"? They're ACTUAL FUCKING WORKING ACTORS. And by "working" I don't mean Critical Role I mean they are all actual working actors who were working successful (mostly voice-over) before Critical Role was streaming. And how is an actor doing their profession "attention-whore "lool at meee!" when THAT'S THE ENTIRE FUCKING JOB. Jesus, what they hell happened to you 3cat, you never used to be this stupid.
By definition, an actor's job IS being an attention whore. How is it that you don't get it?
Not only do I get that, you're agreeing with me but apparently too fucking stupid to see that?
Me thinks the stupid one is the guy that says one thing and then claims he's saying the exact opposite.
Quote from: Mistwell on February 21, 2022, 04:03:13 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 21, 2022, 08:53:26 AM
Quote from: Mistwell on February 18, 2022, 05:10:00 PM
Quote from: jeff37923 on February 16, 2022, 08:16:29 AM
Quote from: jhkim on February 15, 2022, 11:14:03 PM
We still have a liberal and conservative side, where each likes to pretend that it's only the other that is authoritarian.
Intellectual dishonesty from jhkim? This is jeff37923's complete lack of surprise.
I feel like we need more specific variants of Jeff's complete lack of surprised. Like Eskimo words for snow.
Mistwell white knighting in defense of a fellow travelers absurd social Marxist whataboutism? This is jeff37923's wry acceptance of a once relevant poster's fall from grace. Does ENworld know that its Champion has taken The Great Dirt Nap?
Wow you did not take that perfectly good hearted joke well Jeff.
Mistwell being disingenuous? This is jeff37923's complete lack of surprise.
Yeah, I don't get throwing shade at an actor for doing their job and acting in front of a camera for money. And they are making plenty of bank, CR is apparently raking in literal millions. I don't get the appeal, but I didn't get PewDiePie either and that guy also made millions somehow, so I'm apparently just out of touch with their audience.
Quote from: Valatar on February 23, 2022, 03:01:34 PM
Yeah, I don't get throwing shade at an actor for doing their job and acting in front of a camera for money. And they are making plenty of bank, CR is apparently raking in literal millions. I don't get the appeal, but I didn't get PewDiePie either and that guy also made millions somehow, so I'm apparently just out of touch with their audience.
Too true.