Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:10:25 PM

Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM

Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!

Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.

Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.

Kotaku are a bunch of morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?

I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.

How do they even do that? Being woke inherently means you believe in "more" rights for some minorities over other majorities. How is that compatible with any precepts of marxism? How do you offer a job to a transgendered African Muslim in a wheel chair over a old white male if the goal of Marxism is to treat them all as exactly equal in terms of the lowest common denominator? In Marxism, they're both supposed to get equal level shitting jobs and stand/sit in line for the Government cheese.

  Because the more widespread form of marxism is social marxism.   I would also say, I have no doubt there are a shit load of "marxists" who have not read Das Capital, or anything else Marx wrote.  To be fair Das Capital is not exactly fun to read, but I would think if people are going to identify themselves as a thing, they need to at least read the books.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 10, 2022, 03:01:49 AM

Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM

Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!

Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.

Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.

Kotaku are a bunch of morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?

I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.

Marxism hasn't stayed frozen in a bubble since he died.

But it has! That's why they have OTHER TERMS FOR OTHER TYPES OF COMMUNISM. If you call someone a Stalinist or Maoist or Troskyist or shit there are 15 different flavors of Leninism alone! Marxist doesn't mean "Any generic form of communism I happen to be thinking of" it actually does in fact have a frozen fixed meaning which didn't change over time. THAT'S WHY IT WAS NAMED AFTER A SPECIFIC GUY WHO WROTE A SPECIFIC THEORY.

And I mentioned earlier a pretty clean example from modern American politics. Wokists do not like Bernie Sanders because Bernie Sanders thinks Identity Politics is all bullshit which is solved by socialist practices which don't care what your skin color or gender or other identity might be. These are not the same things and lumping them all together in "People who disagree with my view of the world" is incredibly non productive.

Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:13:44 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on February 09, 2022, 08:04:40 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM

Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!

Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.

Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.

Kotaku are a bunch of morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same? Kotaku isn't Marxist - they're wokist. They are ruthless capitalists - they just want the woke dollars and that's the capitalist niche they've carved out for themselves.

People calling this clickbait were correct - this whole thing is manufactured by a woke capitalist company trying to get more ad dollars by triggering people on all sides of the wokism debate to click on their article.

Why are you deliberately turning this political?

Me? How is Shark's constant calling them Marxist not "turning this political?" Is Marxism now considered "not political"? I gotta say, that's a hard sell there Jeff but I'd be curious to hear your argument.

No, this is you doing this. You are getting butthurt over Shark pointing out that they are Marxist and reacting.

I love that you have ignored the second part of my response to you.

Quote from: jeff37923
To answer your earlier question, it is because well-known leaders of these movements say that they are.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:10:25 PM

Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM

Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!

Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.

Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.

Kotaku are a bunch of morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?

I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.

How do they even do that? Being woke inherently means you believe in "more" rights for some minorities over other majorities. How is that compatible with any precepts of marxism? How do you offer a job to a transgendered African Muslim in a wheel chair over a old white male if the goal of Marxism is to treat them all as exactly equal in terms of the lowest common denominator? In Marxism, they're both supposed to get equal level shitting jobs and stand/sit in line for the Government cheese.

Not sure*, but you can't have missed that BLM is Marxist can you? It's not only them, it's a thing in general. 

*My guess is they just conflate "people of color", women, etc., with the downtrodden proletariat.

Says a lot that they would cancel Critical Role rather than provide a all colorful alternative that might bring people of color into the hobby the way Critical Role has done. Might make a ton of money that way.

of course such an alternative would be compared to the original and by their standards it might fall short. Better to just cancel everything rather than let that happen.

Quote from: Ruprecht on February 10, 2022, 01:00:52 PM
Says a lot that they would cancel Critical Role rather than provide a all colorful alternative that might bring people of color into the hobby the way Critical Role has done. Might make a ton of money that way.

of course such an alternative would be compared to the original and by their standards it might fall short. Better to just cancel everything rather than let that happen.

A LOT of "social justice" is really just about sheer pettiness.

Quote from: Trond on February 10, 2022, 01:07:08 PM

Quote from: Ruprecht on February 10, 2022, 01:00:52 PM
Says a lot that they would cancel Critical Role rather than provide a all colorful alternative that might bring people of color into the hobby the way Critical Role has done. Might make a ton of money that way.

of course such an alternative would be compared to the original and by their standards it might fall short. Better to just cancel everything rather than let that happen.

A LOT of "social justice" is really just about sheer pettiness.

  Well, I would say more of an outright grift.  It always seems to chirp the loudest at people who have deep pockets.

Quote from: Trond on February 10, 2022, 01:07:08 PM

Quote from: Ruprecht on February 10, 2022, 01:00:52 PM
Says a lot that they would cancel Critical Role rather than provide a all colorful alternative that might bring people of color into the hobby the way Critical Role has done. Might make a ton of money that way.

of course such an alternative would be compared to the original and by their standards it might fall short. Better to just cancel everything rather than let that happen.

A LOT of "social justice" is really just about sheer pettiness.

Agreed. Hit the nail on the head.

Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:17:40 PMThese are not the same things and lumping them all together in "People who disagree with my view of the world" is incredibly non productive.

Because marxist theory is like debating the kind of cheese the moon is made out of. Sorry for lumping the garganzolites, with chedarians, but they are all unified by crazy.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on February 10, 2022, 02:01:02 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:17:40 PMThese are not the same things and lumping them all together in "People who disagree with my view of the world" is incredibly non productive.

Because marxist theory is like debating the kind of cheese the moon is made out of. Sorry for lumping the garganzolites, with chedarians, but they are all unified by crazy.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Brilliant, Shrieking Banshee! So true!

There are dozens of splinters and flavours of Marxism, Communism, et al. In the end though, so what? Like you said, they all believe that the moon is made out of cheese!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Mistwell on February 10, 2022, 12:17:40 PM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on February 10, 2022, 03:01:49 AM

Quote from: Trond on February 09, 2022, 05:22:18 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on February 09, 2022, 05:18:49 PM

Quote from: SHARK on February 09, 2022, 02:43:19 PM
Greetings!

Geesus, the whining and absolute ridiculous mental gymnastics that Kotaku goes through in critiquing Critical Role. Responsibility to disavow the original Colonizers and explorers? God these people are fucking nuts. They are so drunk on their fucking Marxist ideology and victimhood that they can't even speak like a normal human being.

Edward Said? Fuck Edward Said and his fucking book. No one gives a fuck about his book except fucking Marxists.

Kotaku are a bunch of morons.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I gotta ask you something: why do you keep conflating wokism with marxism? Here's the truth: Marxists hate wokism because it distracts from their class and class warfare issues. Actual marxists are not woke at all. Their stance on feminism ended at we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Their stances on race is we're all equal and should all be oppressed equally. Marxists don't talk about race and sex and transgender issues ANYTHING like woke people do. And for the wokists, they despise the marxist as well. NOTHING triggered the wokists more than Bernie Sanders' claim that solving for class inequality would inherently solve for racial inequalities. Wokists and Marxists are not the same and don't like each other. So why are you calling them one and the same?

I happen to know a couple of Marxists from Europe who are woke AF.

Marxism hasn't stayed frozen in a bubble since he died.

But it has! That's why they have OTHER TERMS FOR OTHER TYPES OF COMMUNISM. If you call someone a Stalinist or Maoist or Troskyist or shit there are 15 different flavors of Leninism alone! Marxist doesn't mean "Any generic form of communism I happen to be thinking of" it actually does in fact have a frozen fixed meaning which didn't change over time. THAT'S WHY IT WAS NAMED AFTER A SPECIFIC GUY WHO WROTE A SPECIFIC THEORY.

And I mentioned earlier a pretty clean example from modern American politics. Wokists do not like Bernie Sanders because Bernie Sanders thinks Identity Politics is all bullshit which is solved by socialist practices which don't care what your skin color or gender or other identity might be. These are not the same things and lumping them all together in "People who disagree with my view of the world" is incredibly non productive.

We're far afield and Punit is due to come in and start posting warnings. I'll say I disagree and if anyone wants to continue the conversation, start a new thread in his forum.

Agreed, mistwell if you wanna continue the convo lets take it to the political section.

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 09, 2022, 12:19:33 PMCritical Role is not actually a roleplaying game or people actually playing a roleplaying game

I've never watched Critical Role. Why isn't it a roleplaying game?

Quote from: Kyle Aaron on February 10, 2022, 05:50:51 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 09, 2022, 12:19:33 PMCritical Role is not actually a roleplaying game or people actually playing a roleplaying game

I've never watched Critical Role. Why isn't it a roleplaying game?

I've watched it briefly. It appears to be a roleplaying game, but from previous discussion, I think Pundit's argument is that even if it isn't scripted per se, the participants are primarily motivated to put on a good show for the camera because of the fame and fortune they get. So it's fundamentally different from an RPG played just for personal enjoyment.

Okay, so kind of like the "porn isn't real sex" argument.