Quote from: Bren;845298Is that for just one kickstarter or in aggregate over the past 20 years?

That is just from the last 12 months. 170,000$ taken from 3,500 kickstarter backers, and six unfulfilled kickstarters. (Some of the backers are duplicates, so it's actually fewer people)  I'd say it's slightly more than he manages to steal on a yearly basis.

So, how's this argument go that you can steal almost two hundred grand, and you should get away with it because each investor donated less than a grand, go again?

If I stole this much money telling fortunes or scamming women on OKcupid, it would be a crime. How is this not?

Quote from: valis;845497If I stole this much money telling fortunes or scamming women on OKcupid, it would be a crime. How is this not?

No one said it wasn't a crime.

It may be. It may not. I'm not a criminal lawyer and wading through the various kickstarter agreements, contracts, etc. to try and figure out if he is actually in breach of his agreement or if broke any laws is not worth my time. In addition, since he didn't get any of my money, I have no standing to sue him. Fraudulent fortune tellers probably defraud people of millions of dollars annually and those schemes likely fall into other con games. Since this is a bigger societal problem the police and prosecutors are wiling to spend more resources chasing the fortune tellers and con artists while, with one or two exceptions, ignoring kickstarter shenanigans. I strongly suspect that the dollars for RPG kickstarters are dwarfed by the dollars for other types of kickstarters so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a crackdown on RPG kickstarter fraud.

Personally I've more sympathy for the elderly who are defrauded of their retirement money than I have for a bunch of RPGers who gave money to this guy when they should have known better by now.

That Whitman guy has some massive balloon balls. A few weeks ago he was basically trolling anyone on FB who dared to call him out out for his dicknanigans - even showing up in threads started by Ernie Gygax and Jolly Blackburn. In the same threads he would alternately claim that he was only a consultant for other people's Kickstart campaigns or that he needed the funds for his personal living expenses or that he would resolve all of the issues at GenCon this year. The last I saw from him, he was touting his workout routine with videos - presumably bulking up in case someone he'd ripped off tried to carry through on threats to knock his ass out. At the very least, Maliszewski had the good sense to go into seclusion. Either Whitman is a bona fide sociopath, monumentally stupid or both.

This all sounds pretty awful but I would recommend folks carefully phrase blog posts and the like if there are accusations that someone broke the law.

But aside from one or two egregious examples, aren't the vast majority of KS failures completely expected fuck-ups that have always been part of the industry?

Hell, we have an active thread right now about the mismanagement of Chaosium (i.e. prior to their KS clusterfucks), and that's only one of a huge number of industry disasters over the years.

The difference is that KS has shifted the risk to the consumers. But the frequency of failure, has that really changed?

Quote from: Motorskills;845604But the frequency of failure, has that really changed?

I doubt anyone knows for sure if the rate has changed.

Small businesses fail at a massively high rate; 80% according to this article in Forbes. No one should be surprised when RPG businesses fail since they are almost all very small businesses. And Kickstarters (which typically are small businesses or not even a real business) are unlikely to have a better success rate than a traditional small business.

Quote from: Motorskills;845604But aside from one or two egregious examples, aren't the vast majority of KS failures completely expected fuck-ups that have always been part of the industry?

Hell, we have an active thread right now about the mismanagement of Chaosium (i.e. prior to their KS clusterfucks), and that's only one of a huge number of industry disasters over the years.

The difference is that KS has shifted the risk to the consumers. But the frequency of failure, has that really changed?

Hard to say. I doubt the average consumer knew about the games that failed for the most part.

http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2015/08/ken-whitless-great-hits-you-cant-cancel.html

Another guest post at Tenkar's Tavern, this one by by Christopher Stogdill, a $450 backer, covering the disaster that was the Gen Con "premiere", and his research into the fiasco (no room was reserved according to the hotel, Whitman used his girlfriend as cover, etc.).

If you get the part where talks about checking to see if d20 Entertainment is incorporated in any of the 50 states (it's not), and wonder what's he's alluding to about the listing in Kentucky... well, the name on the filing isn't Ken Whitman. Stogdill filed it himself.

Stogdill continues to talk in the comments as well, including about a potential lawsuit: "I realize you are probably broke and one cannot get blood from a stone, but if this is the case I'm OK with just getting one of your stones."

http://www.barbwryter.kodtweb.com/?p=753

Open Letter posted by Barbara Blackburn (yes, that Blackburn) to Ken Whitman. Very emotional.

Quote from: Pat;847314http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2015/08/ken-whitless-great-hits-you-cant-cancel.html

Another guest post at Tenkar's Tavern, this one by by Christopher Stogdill, a $450 backer, covering the disaster that was the Gen Con "premiere", and his research into the fiasco (no room was reserved according to the hotel, Whitman used his girlfriend as cover, etc.).

If you get the part where talks about checking to see if d20 Entertainment is incorporated in any of the 50 states (it's not), and wonder what's he's alluding to about the listing in Kentucky... well, the name on the filing isn't Ken Whitman. Stogdill filed it himself.

Stogdill continues to talk in the comments as well, including about a potential lawsuit: "I realize you are probably broke and one cannot get blood from a stone, but if this is the case I'm OK with just getting one of your stones."

http://www.barbwryter.kodtweb.com/?p=753

Open Letter posted by Barbara Blackburn (yes, that Blackburn) to Ken Whitman. Very emotional.

Saw these this morning on Facebook. With the number of times we have rallied for those who have been the victims of misguided online attacks (Pundit, Zak S, Desborough), it makes me think that this is a legit use of online influence to bring justice to a criminal like Ken Whitman.

Quote from: jeff37923;847328Saw these this morning on Facebook. With the number of times we have rallied for those who have been the victims of misguided online attacks (Pundit, Zak S, Desborough), it makes me think that this is a legit use of online influence to bring justice to a criminal like Ken Whitman.

No, criminal justice is up to a district attorney somewhere. Civil justice is up to someone like Stogdill, who has the standing to file a lawsuit, and enough endurance to follow through.

Threads like this serve as warnings. The internet never forgets.

Quote from: Pat;847314http://www.barbwryter.kodtweb.com/?p=753

Open Letter posted by Barbara Blackburn (yes, that Blackburn) to Ken Whitman. Very emotional.

What a shame. It's pretty obvious that the Blackburns aren't fools, they are decent. Whitman took that decency and squandered it just as much as he squandered all that money.

Damn.

Quote from: Pat;847336No, criminal justice is up to a district attorney somewhere. Civil justice is up to someone like Stogdill, who has the standing to file a lawsuit, and enough endurance to follow through.

Threads like this serve as warnings. The internet never forgets.

I agree with you, however justice in this case to me is neither criminal or civil - it is a concept.

Welp, I don't have an email addy for Ken, he's not in any of my social circles, and I didn't even know he existed until last year when I saw him in the TSR reunion video from GaryCon.

I didn't know many of the TSR staff from the 80's until much later because I had pretty much stopped buying any new RPG stuff from TSR from 1980 on. The last books I bought were the DMG and Fiend Folio when they were first released, and didn't buy anything new from TSR after that until the release of Rules Cyclopedia in 1989.

I'll be sure to keep Ken off my list of RPG authors/publishers to buy from.

James Mal is also back by the way, he's on G+ running games for a small circle of peeps who decided his douchebaggery towards his fellow gamers without any penance was somehow forgiveable...

Quote from: GameDaddy;847492James Mal is also back by the way, he's on G+ running games for a small circle of peeps who decided his douchebaggery towards his fellow gamers without any penance was somehow forgiveable...

Is he demanding payment for this? Because if not then I don't see any need to worry about that.

Quote from: Bren;844969I have no idea about Ken Whitman. I'll look at the link and see if I can care less.

Reporting, law enforcement interest, and societies interest in general will first follow the money and second look at the number of people effected.

There just isn't enough money in RPGs at all, much less in the failed kickstarters, nor enough people who lost money in failed kickstarters to get other people very interested. There are hundreds of other scams that effect more people and involve more money than the tiny fraction of kickstarter scams that comprise the tiny segment of new games in our tiny, tiny hobby. Even as someone with over four decades in the hobby and who has participated in kickstarters, I don't think investigating RPG kickstarter scams is a good use of my tax dollars.

And if there's enough money in it -- trillions of dollars, say -- it's magically no longer a crime at all! There might be a fine, but that's charged to a corporation that pays with a handout from the taxpayers.

But if you're poor and black, "obstructing pedestrian traffic" is not even the most absurd shit going down.

Livin in the USA, anyhow -- might be different in Singapore or someplace.