So how does a GM handle the sniper as a character with out being too much of a dick?

Not sure of your setting but... to prevent him/her from setting up: Guards, cameras, wards, motion sensor lights, patrols, dogs, amazingly bright lighting, bubble wrap everywhere (try sneaking around on that shit).

To prevent from getting a clear/accurate shot; strong winds and poor lighting But I guess it can't always be midnight during hurricane season. Doubles (like Hussein used), surround oneself with body guards, or innocents. Personal wards, kevlar, forcefields, target is on some sort of accelerator (spell, pill, whatever) and can move super fast thus dodging the projectile and maybe running up and beating the snot out of the would be sniper.

Might be interesting to take a missed shot and kill someone unexpected, maybe someone he/she doesn't recognize and it turns out to be someone important or an ally or something. Could result in a manhunt for the PC or at least some interesting reactions from PCs and NPCs alike.

Just a few thoughts.

Not sure of your setting but... to prevent him/her from setting up: Guards, cameras, wards, motion sensor lights, patrols, dogs, amazingly bright lighting, bubble wrap everywhere (try sneaking around on that shit).

To prevent from getting a clear/accurate shot; strong winds and poor lighting  But I guess it can't always be midnight during hurricane season. Doubles (like Hussein used), surround oneself with body guards, or innocents. Personal wards, kevlar, forcefields, target is on some sort of accelerator (spell, pill, whatever) and can move super fast thus dodging the projectile and maybe running up and beating the snot out of the would be sniper.

Might be interesting to take a missed shot and kill someone unexpected, maybe someone he/she doesn't recognize and it turns out to be someone important or an ally or something. Could result in a manhunt for the PC or at least some interesting reactions from PCs and NPCs alike.

Just a few thoughts.

I appreciate every suggestion I get. Tonight was kind of a perfect storm of situational stuff-great terrain combined with superior positioning, an unaware target and an incredibly high die pool. Add in superior tactics on their part and they got the results they deserved but I just felt like I missed some opportunities to balance it properly.

The traditional dramatic counter to a sniper is another sniper, resulting in a running stealth battle through Stalingrad.

The real counter to a sniper is artillery.

If your game allows players to be snipers, and has situations that can be resolved just by killing someone, I think you are in for a bit of a snooze fest.

Snipers can have a lot of problems. After they shoot the guy, they have to escape. If they can leave their gun, run down some steps, and be on a crowded street, they will probably get away with it. If they have to jog a mile to a helo, they might have some trouble.

When I run modern games, I generally run two types. One, where cat and mouse games of stealth are the only game in town, and two, where killing people doesn't solve anything.

In the first type, you have to be willing to kill player characters by the same means.

"Roll perception."

"I got a 17."

"You needed a 22, sorry. (rolls dice) I'm afraid your dead. Your sidearm was destroyed by a .50 rifle round."

Quote from: Serious Paul;491964I appreciate every suggestion I get. Tonight was kind of a perfect storm of situational stuff-great terrain combined with superior positioning, an unaware target and an incredibly high die pool. Add in superior tactics on their part and they got the results they deserved but I just felt like I missed some opportunities to balance it properly.

If they did a good job planning like that I think you handled it fine (no need to dial up the challenge level just because pcs are choosing good tactics). That said there can still be fallout from sniping depending on the setting and context.

In the urban environment, crowds, obstructions like newsstands and cars, etc. are all likely to interfere with attempts to snipe. Also, most buildings in a given section of town tend to be about the same height, which makes sniping difficult because you can't see over intervening buildings, which means you need to get quite close (like an adjacent building).

Unless the sniper is trying to just cause terror by picking people off, or their target is going to be on a raised platform like a podium or in an open area like a park or plaza, it's pretty difficult to find a good shooting position.

Not to mention that simply finding a sniping spot is a challenge in an urban setting. You can't just walk to the rooftop of a random conveniently located building: you have people working or living in it, receptionists, security guards, building security inspectors, locked rooftop access hatches, etc..

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;492000If they did a good job planning like that I think you handled it fine (no need to dial up the challenge level just because pcs are choosing good tactics). That said there can still be fallout from sniping depending on the setting and context.

The only reason I am even taking a look at this is I had at least two players complain, and a third player mention he was a little suspect of how things played out. Add to this that I've politely asked for the player in questions character sheet four times, and four times now the player has found a way to spin me-I'm loathe to simply accuse someone of cheating publicly, which in our group is what a confrontation would be taken as. Especially since the player in question is a decent cat, but has a bad rap with how he handles competitiveness at the table.

My goal, as I see it, isn't to crank up the opposition-but rather make sure I have them dialed into the correct position.

Quote from: Serious Paul;492017The only reason I am even taking a look at this is I had at least two players complain, and a third player mention he was a little suspect of how things played out. Add to this that I've politely asked for the player in questions character sheet four times, and four times now the player has found a way to spin me-I'm loathe to simply accuse someone of cheating publicly, which in our group is what a confrontation would be taken as. Especially since the player in question is a decent cat, but has a bad rap with how he handles competitiveness at the table.

My goal, as I see it, isn't to crank up the opposition-but rather make sure I have them dialed into the correct position.

This is an entirely different situation than I first assumed based on the OP. If the players themselves are complaining there is clearly an issue. First I think you need to establish whether the player is cheating (and it sounds like he may be). Then I recommend you familiarize yourself more with the rules (really dig deep into them and see if he is misusing anything--is he exceeding stacking limits? Does he meet modifier requirements? Etc).

So is the problem you basically have one player who is always getting the upperhand somehow while the others are left in the dust?

In yesterday's game the player in question definitely did somethings that seem legal by the rules but just felt off to all of us. It's not impossible I missed something-but it is with in the realm of possibility the player was completely street legal. Shadowrun 4 has some funny loop holes in the rules that don't come up often, but can ridiculous when they do. This hasn't happened before, and I am making sure that next time a situation comes up like this I'll handle it better.

Cover being totally inadequate in SR4 RAW means that cyber-snipers with thermogoggles and some APDS ammo can shoot people through rather more building than you might expect.

Quote from: Serious Paul;491959So how does a GM handle the sniper as a character with out being too much of a dick?

You say: So, guys, sniping seems super-effective. I think I might be using the rules wrong. I re-read them last night, and I think we might be misinterpreting a rule. Sniper, can I see your sheet, I need to get the bonuses and run the math again, sorry.

And then you have three options.

1. Sniper was obviously cheating - with what's on his sheet, he could not reach the hit and damage that he's been declaring. You can call him on it, or call it a math error, as in "I think you might have added this bonus twice." And then move on.

2. You find the error, yours or his - whether he was intentionally making the error or not doesn't matter too much. "Oh, crap! A 20x scope adds +4 to the hit, it doesn't multiply the damage by 20!"

3. He's not cheating, and there are no errors. "Well, I guess by the rules, sniping is just that super-effective, so much so it's ruining the game for everyone who isn't a sniper. I'll take suggestions on rules/playstyle modifications for leveling the playing field. What do you guys think is fair?"

Along the lines of what was mentioned earlier about it being hard to find sniping locations: if the target is at all worried about snipers, they'll take steps to stakeout and guard any likely sniping locations, which will probably be fairly few.  It should be a fair challenge just getting the sniper into position.