Quote from: hexgrid;749584This works they same in 4e that it does in any edition when miniatures are being used- you draw the area on your erasable battle mat if/when the need arises.

To an extent. But 4E strongly encourages preparing for encounters by designing the terrain, the enemy unit composition, and the positioning of the enemies.

Quote from: hexgrid;749584This works they same in 4e that it does in any edition when miniatures are being used- you draw the area on your erasable battle mat if/when the need arises.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but 4e is designed with clear encounter boundaries, correct?  I was under the impression that an encounter in 4e is specifically designed to have X amount of opponents in a clearly defined area.

With the module I have written, it is entirely plausible that most of the other creatures may be alerted to a battle and come join it.  Also, many of the creatures roam the area and don't just stay in their encounter area.  With those two factors, it's entirely likely that you could have an encounter that starts in room 4 or whatever, and technically continue through the entire dungeon level until either all the monsters are dead, the PCs are dead, or the party finds another solution (like running away, hiding, etc).

How would one handle that in 4e, when each square on those maps = 10ft, and you can see just how big a particular dungeon level is.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;749546So basically...I can "run them with no changes" as long as I alter all the mechanical stuff and am willing to run FR...pass.

Swap monsters seems about it.
Magic items seem the same.
The Next conversion of Keep on the Borderlands that came with the last playtest packet is fairly unchanged overall. Just a notable toning down of magic items gained and the shift in monster stats is what I am seeing.

The FR part you can jettison and replace with anything.

But unfortunately the answer is NO, the modules are not useable without at least a little work on the part of the DM.

Quote from: jeff37923;749512And compared to the crippleware that WotC has produced in beginner sets, well worth every penny.

I was not commenting on the quality just explaining the price difference plays a role.  You can put more into a starter set if you raise the price by 75%.  You can also price a lot of people out of trying out that new game when you set the price point above $20, which research says is the threshold many people use for impulse buys.  I agree with you, the starter set needs to be better that recent attempts by WOTC.  I also don't think it can be as complete as the Pathfinder version, since that version costs so much more.  If it is, well great.

QuoteWhere are you getting the price for a 5E starter set for making the comparison? Or is this just your standard White Knight kneejerk?

Oh I see...you're not reading the thread you're commenting on.  Not sure what to do with that Jeff.  There was an announcement from distributors that the Starter Set is $20 and coming out on July 15 and the product ID number is A92160000.  We're talking right now about that announcement.

Quote from: Haffrung;749587To an extent. But 4E strongly encourages preparing for encounters by designing the terrain, the enemy unit composition, and the positioning of the enemies.

It encourages it, and you can do amazing things that way if you have the time, but after a while I just said fuck it. I prepared a wide swath of simple enemies of varying levels (which is trivially easy in 4e once you've figured out the dozen or so basic enemy functions), set up a rough random encounter table old-school style, and eyeballed realistic seeming terrain on the fly with graph paper. Worked fine for the most part.

What my monsters lacked in coherent tactics they made up for in numbers and power. My players got a big kick out of being a resourceful team outsmarting superior foes.

Quote from: SacrosanctPlease correct me if I'm wrong, but 4e is designed with clear encounter boundaries, correct? I was under the impression that an encounter in 4e is specifically designed to have X amount of opponents in a clearly defined area.

Nah, I added monsters mid-fight all the time, and players routinely made moves that required me to expand the map. No biggie. The thing about 4e characters is that they have so many resources and options in combat that they really can handle a lot more than seems plausible on paper. The Encounter and Daily powers are not the be-all, end-all, though smart players will figure out ways to create "safe time" for recovering those.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;749594How would one handle that in 4e, when each square on those maps = 10ft, and you can see just how big a particular dungeon level is.

Most 4e Encounters would include multiple rooms and locations, unlike the room by room description of previous editions. Basically, 4e assumed that a combat would spill out into the surrounding area. For example, the entire ground level of the moathouse in Hommlet is one encounter (or two if you include outside of the keep) rather than 17 rooms as in AD&D1e. As such, the opponents from those additional rooms and locations are included in the set up.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;749594Please correct me if I'm wrong, but 4e is designed with clear encounter boundaries, correct?  I was under the impression that an encounter in 4e is specifically designed to have X amount of opponents in a clearly defined area.

With the module I have written, it is entirely plausible that most of the other creatures may be alerted to a battle and come join it.  Also, many of the creatures roam the area and don't just stay in their encounter area.  With those two factors, it's entirely likely that you could have an encounter that starts in room 4 or whatever, and technically continue through the entire dungeon level until either all the monsters are dead, the PCs are dead, or the party finds another solution (like running away, hiding, etc).

How would one handle that in 4e, when each square on those maps = 10ft, and you can see just how big a particular dungeon level is.

This stuff is all part of the "Delve" format for adventures, which predates 4e a bit and I don't think it's really a part of the system itself. Late 3e adventures all used it, and IIRC, WotC started backing away from it in late 4e.

The article where WotC introduced is actually still up: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060317a

The problem with the format is handling all the stuff you just described, but there's nothing about 4e that requires it. Put the some monsters and the PCs on a grid, and it's going still going to function even if you haven't carefully pre-planned the encounter.  

An issue you would have is that 4e combats take too long to be compatible with standard dungeon crawl assumptions.

Quote from: Mistwell;749673Oh I see...you're not reading the thread you're commenting on.  Not sure what to do with that Jeff.  There was an announcement from distributors that the Starter Set is $20 and coming out on July 15 and the product ID number is A92160000.  We're talking right now about that announcement.

No, dipshit, I'm trying to nail down that price figure you are waving about because it does not appear anywhere else online that I have been able to locate and ENworld is not what I consider a reliable source.

One metric I use to judge how playable I'll find an edition of D&D is to look at the stat block for a simple monster. If a goblin or kobold has a half page stat block, I'm going to fucking hate it. Do we have any clues about the length/complexity of monster stat blocks in 5e?

Quote from: jeff37923;749689No, dipshit, I'm trying to nail down that price figure you are waving about because it does not appear anywhere else online that I have been able to locate and ENworld is not what I consider a reliable source.

It's directly from two different distributors (Lion Rampart Imports out of Hamilton, Ontario, Canada; and Alliance Games Distributors, which has locations across the US).  The first person to report it was the owner of Games Plus out of Chicago (the price is $19.99, if you want to call Curt and confirm it you can go to their webpage for his number).  And it does appear in several places online.  It seems the initial Barnes and Noble release page was exactly accurate.  

None of this was "EnWorld", EW just repeated what the game store owners and distributors said (cause you know, it's news).  Apparently this initially started with announcements at a retailer's conference last week.

If it's going to retail for $20, expect more of the same.

Quote from: Endless Flight;749696If it's going to retail for $20, expect more of the same.

Hard to tell.  Mike Mearls said, "I can't talk about specific products, but in my ideal world there's a game called D&D that you find in stores. It's simple enough that you can just start playing, but deep enough that you feel that the next layer of stuff adds to it, rather than replaces it like going from a starter set to a Player's Handbook has traditionally done."

Quote from: Larsdangly;749693One metric I use to judge how playable I'll find an edition of D&D is to look at the stat block for a simple monster. If a goblin or kobold has a half page stat block, I'm going to fucking hate it. Do we have any clues about the length/complexity of monster stat blocks in 5e?

As of last playtest a Goblin was:

QuoteGoblin
Small Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Armor Class 13 (leather, shield)
Hit Points 3 (1d6)
Speed 30 ft.
Senses darkvision 60 ft.
Str 8 (–1) Dex 11 (+0) Con 10 (+0)
Int 10 (+0) Wis 9 (–1) Cha 8 (–1)
Alignment neutral evil
Languages Common, Goblin

TRAITS
Bushwhacker: During the first round of combat, the goblin has advantage on attack rolls against any target that has a lower initiative.
Sneaky: The goblin can attempt to hide at the end of a move without using an action.
Stealthy +5: The goblin gains a +5 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks.

ACTIONS
Melee Attack—Mace: +1 to hit (reach 5 ft.; one creature). Hit: 2 (1d6 – 1) bludgeoning damage (minimum 1 damage).
Ranged Attack—Shortbow: +2 to hit (range 80 ft./320 ft.; one creature). Hit: 3 (1d6) piercing damage.

ENCOUNTER BUILDING
Level 1
XP 10

Quote from: Skywalker;749702As of last playtest a Goblin was:

Do the monster's ability scores serve any purpose? Why would anyone need to know what the goblin's wisdom is?

Quote from: aspiringlich;749706Do the monster's ability scores serve any purpose? Why would anyone need to know what the goblin's wisdom is?

Aside from skill rolls, they are also used for Saving rolls versus spells and other effects.