Quote from: JaegerKind of a backhanded insult to other games eh? Just because class/levels/hitpoints are #1 doesn't nessicarialy make it the best. Not all systems fit everyones playstyle - that's why alternates came along.

Wasn't that JArcane's point from the other side... just because class/level doesn't fit YOUR playstyle doesn't make your game superior?

Quote from: Caesar SlaadWasn't that JArcane's point from the other side... just because class/level doesn't fit YOUR playstyle doesn't make your game superior?

It does make that game superior, for that person whose playstyle that game better fits.

Quote from: LancerIt does make that game superior, for that person whose playstyle that game better fits.

Thank you for the trivial observation.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadThank you for the trivial observation.

Thanks for the even more trivial response.

Quote from: LancerIt does make that game superior, for that person whose playstyle that game better fits.

However, that's not what we are discussing in this thread... at least if we stick to the topic. That DnD has gotten included is little more than a troll really, and I get ya Lancer that you didn't bring it up first.

Caesar's point was in the context of the thread topic, not various individual's tastes alone.

We get it, you don't like d20. Doesn't make you better than us, smarter than us, etc.. Just different. Now if ya'all could dispense with the fashionable d20 bashing and get on with exposing everyone to great games we might never have heard of for one reason or another we will all be better off I feel. Thanks

D20 would be great, except it sucks.













What?

Quote from: SigmundHowever, that's not what we are discussing in this thread... at least if we stick to the topic. That DnD has gotten included is little more than a troll really, and I get ya Lancer that you didn't bring it up first.

Caesar's point was in the context of the thread topic, not various individual's tastes alone.

We get it, you don't like d20. Doesn't make you better than us, smarter than us, etc.. Just different. Now if ya'all could dispense with the fashionable d20 bashing and get on with exposing everyone to great games we might never have heard of for one reason or another we will all be better off I feel. Thanks

I just find it interesting how you single me out when:
I wasn't the person who brought it up first. At least you acknowledge that but it still doesn't justify singling me out.

and two:
There were posters after me who continued talking off-topic either in favor or against class/level systems. If you are going to single me out, there are a few more posters you should single out as well... including the OP.

and three:
In that last post I wasn't even bashing 3e/d20. I had agreed to stop doing that 2 pages ago-- which is why I didn't continue arguing with jeff or you. I was merely responding (admittedly bad on my part) to another off-topic post that had nothing to do with 3.x/d20 bashing. And then, ironically, for all your supposed good intentions about staying on topic (and attempts to make me out to be the "bad guy"), you decide to bring up the 3.x/d20 stuff all over again... You talk about staying on topic and yet you are just as responsible for derailing this thread as I or anyone else who was involved is. Shame on you!

But to get BACK on topic, other under-rated games to be considered may include Cartoon Action Hour and Feng Shui.

Anyhow, lol at Aos.

QuoteNo denying that here. It's not one of - it's THE single most popular system.

I wasn't just referring to TRPGs.

I was going to write that D20 sucks, but now that it is moving away from the center and has some excellent iterations, I can no longer hate it like I used to.  Still, the vestiges of automatic defensiveness (saying D20 sucks != I am a superior person) are fun to see.

Honestly, I'm really pretty happy with all the games I own and have played.  There are many games that just don't work for me, but I can't really say that "they could have been a great game, if only..."  With me, they are either in or out and if they are in, they are mostly okay.

I'm a satisfied consumer when it comes to gaming these days.

The problem wasn't anyone saying D20 sucks.

The problem was Lancer explicitly stating that D&D sucks because it uses a class/level system, which he stated to be less advanced than non-class/level systems.  Which is just a dumb statement to make.

Could have been a great game if:

[Insert name of game here] had been delivered to my door by a very drunk and horny Alizee.

Quote from: DangerCould have been a great game if:

[Insert name of game here] had been delivered to my door by a very drunk and horny Alizee.

Hell, she doesn't even have to be drunk.

The Justifiers RPG could have been truly great -- it came out during the big explosion in anthropomorphic animal craze -- if not for some serious flaws in the actual system.  The setting was absolutely brilliant, but the combat system was mediocre at best.  Also, for a game about exploring uncharted worlds, the absence of rules for dealing with hostile environments was particularly noticeable.

Still, if I could find the owner of the rights to the game, I'd buy them and republish it.

Regarding the classes and levels discussion, I like games with classes and levels and I like games without classes and levels. It's the same with brunettes and blondes, it's not that I don't care, I just simply see the virtues of both.

Therefore, I win.

Quote from: JaegerWe've all come across those RPGs that deserved beter than they got. The problem usually was that they had an element that held them back from becoming more popular, and instead headed down the road to being out of print.
.

Lost Souls. I have no idea why this game didn't do well.

Regards,
David R