In my never ending search for a system that is both moderate and fun to run I came across Cortex! It seems good. But, I've been here before. Barbarians of Lemuria; fun for a session but too simple: it is very meh. FATE, or rather Legends of Anglerre, is another: fantastic for a few sessions and I still like it - especially the magic system BUT then the tagging and the aspects start to grind and I've had enough! BRP my favourite overall system but its magic system lets it down; just like any D100 magic system for me it feels incomplete and I dislike spell lists and I feel that D100 is more a GM's system than a player's system?

So Cortex what does it play like before I buy? I have the PDF and reading threads about the new Marvel game it does sounds fun, easy and flexible; BUT is it? Can it do WFRP if you wanted without much fuss? Could it do Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance - D'n'D type stuff? What about Hammer Horror, or Cthulhu? Any way I'd like to know - I'm so sick of buying systems to find players don't like them!

Just to explain the New Marvel game is Cortex+ which means it is heavily modified version of Cortex to fit the setting. The original Cortex game has a lot of fairly standard mechanics. No they aren't complicated but they aren't as unique as the Marvel/Smallville etc versions--mind you in some ways that is a good thing.

Yes, it can do Horror--they produced a game based on the Supernatural TV show, tweak it a bit and you have a good horror game, I imagine. Since some of Supernatural did touch on good horror once in a while. It is likely as easy to tweak to fantasy as well.

Albeit a fantasy version of Cortex+ rather than normal Cortex (in Supernatural, Serenity, and BSG) is being made called Dragon Brigade--albeit how D&D like it will be I don't know. It did have I thought a quickstart out.

For me? The plus stuff varies from meh to awesome. The original game is well plain, and functional like Unisystem but with weird dice times.

BUT no Cortex+ rulebook..?

I've read some reviews of the Marvel system and it seems to be going down well? However, I've also heard it isn't getting a UK/European release; why not? I think that I'd like to pick it up!

Quote from: elfandghost;521009BUT no Cortex+ rulebook..?

I've read some reviews of the Marvel system and it seems to be going down well? However, I've also heard it isn't getting a UK/European release; why not? I think that I'd like to pick it up!

Well, poke around here and you won't find too many people happy with it...=) I think it's a perfectly good game, but not The Best Game Evar like some other boards are touting it as (like they do whenever a NewAndShiny comes along).

Last I heard, MWP was working on getting the UK/European channels lined out so it would be available across the pond.

But no, there is no Cortex+ rulebook because while Smallville, Marvel and Leverage all use Cortex+, they all use their own version of it. The intent for Cortex+, as I understand it, is they don't ever intend for it to be "generic".

For many 'old school' or 'traditional' gamers I can see problems with getting head round the mechanics. A range of 'peak human' to 'peak superhuman' is covered in D8, D10, D12, and I'm somewhat reminded of Tunnels and trolls when a bucket o dice is rolled. (And I can't help but imagine a cloud with fists and feet poking out). That said, it's a brave attempt to be different, and played face to face I'm sure it's fun once you get your head round it.

The foaming of the mouth at the flavour of the day/week/month thing as seen on another forum does *really* grind on the nerves. Declaring it instantly 'the greatest thing since sliced bread' suggests to me that people were wandering aimless without a favourite game before this came along, which is a bit sad. Time will tell whether it stands up, not a five minute play test or even a single session whilst trying to figure out if you're playing it right then posting online saying it's a 'cake made of layers of awesome' or whatever.

Therein lies another problem - it's not intuitive, because it's different to all other supers games and you won't pick it up straight away because the writing isn't that clear in places. Eventually, you'll either 'get it' and enjoy it, or you won't and will wonder what the fuss is about. I started out hoping to be in the first camp, and ended up in the second, but each to their own. If you play it and enjoy it, good for you

As has been seen with M&M, it's easy enough to hack a supers game for other genres with a bit of work. I think this is a game system that has been hacked to work with supers, so it might be better off as a Cthulu style investigation thing, or dungeon romp game, than actual supers...? Someone will tell me I'm wrong, and a hater, but hey, it's my opinion *shrug*

Quote from: APN;521015The foaming of the mouth at the flavour of the day/week/month thing as seen on another forum does *really* grind on the nerves. Declaring it instantly 'the greatest thing since sliced bread' suggests to me that people were wandering aimless without a favourite game before this came along, which is a bit sad. Time will tell whether it stands up, not a five minute play test or even a single session whilst trying to figure out if you're playing it right then posting online saying it's a 'cake made of layers of awesome' or whatever.

Thanks! You see that's just the thing isn't it; after more than a few games the "best new game evar" turns out not to be the best game ever. So I think I will leave it. I'm getting the same feeling as FATE; great for a while but then starts to get annoying and limiting.

You know the more systems I read and the more I buy the more I get fed up with the hobby. I think the problem could be this: the people who design games aren't the people who play games and who have other things in their lives like kids, girlfriend, regular work and other hobbies. With that; I don't hold out for D&D 5 either! I think I should just make my own and not tell anyone but my players. In fact I'm going to lie to them; say its the hottest new thing on RPG net or whatever and that is beyond brilliant...?

Quote from: elfandghost;521009BUT no Cortex+ rulebook..?

Not yet. They're working on something kind of like design notes, advice, and stuff for people who want to tinker to make their very own version of Cortex+, but last I heard it's not a high priority.

I find it helps to think of Cortex+ as a computer language and the individual games that use it as specific computer software. Cortex+ isn't a single system; it's just a framework of rules bits and design principles that can be rearranged as needed to make a variety of different, superficially similar(but under the hood quite different) systems.

I tried hard to like the Supernatural game, because I like the show. It was my first experience with Cortex. I didn't like it. I've since tried other iterations of Cortex, though, with Firefly and a couple other things. I still didn't like it. I can't say, though, that I liked it for horror less than I did for other genres. So if you like it, I'm sure it does horror perfectly well. I just don't like it.

Quote from: stu2000;521021I tried hard to like the Supernatural game, because I like the show. It was my first experience with Cortex. I didn't like it. I've since tried other iterations of Cortex, though, with Firefly and a couple other things. I still didn't like it. I can't say, though, that I liked it for horror less than I did for other genres. So if you like it, I'm sure it does horror perfectly well. I just don't like it.

Cortex itself never impressed me. Felt like the bastard child of Unisystem and Savage Worlds, and I would just play one of those instead.

Don't get me wrong--I like Leverage, and I think Smallville is "almost" but not quite likable for me. (I've a problem with player's playing the bad guys. Because most players have less restraint than television script characters.)

I feel the latter needed a good editor and more explanations, albeit Leverage seems alright for the most part.

MHP? I'm not sure. I feel its too fiddly. Honestly, I want the players heads on "What their character is thinking/doing/talking about.." rather than on fiddling with dice and talking in the mechanical abstracts. A common flaw I see in a lot of "Story" games. They focus on the mechanics so much, that the real story is lost. (I'd rather see someone talking about how cool it was to run up the wall to Spider-Man, and commiserate about his broken date, then "what dice did what..." if that makes any sense.)

Quote from: elfandghost;521000In my never ending search for a system that is both moderate and fun to run I came across Cortex! It seems good. But, I've been here before. Barbarians of Lemuria; fun for a session but too simple: it is very meh. FATE, or rather Legends of Anglerre, is another: fantastic for a few sessions and I still like it - especially the magic system BUT then the tagging and the aspects start to grind and I've had enough! BRP my favourite overall system but its magic system lets it down; just like any D100 magic system for me it feels incomplete and I dislike spell lists and I feel that D100 is more a GM's system than a player's system?

So Cortex what does it play like before I buy? I have the PDF and reading threads about the new Marvel game it does sounds fun, easy and flexible; BUT is it? Can it do WFRP if you wanted without much fuss? Could it do Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance - D'n'D type stuff? What about Hammer Horror, or Cthulhu? Any way I'd like to know - I'm so sick of buying systems to find players don't like them!

So want a generic, medium crunch system that can do different genres and you don't want it to be too mate-gamey like Fate?

If you like BRP in principle, that probably ought to be your starting point. I'm not really the BRP expert between Runequest and the different editions of Strombringer chances are there is something closer to what you are looking for. And then there are spin offs like Pendragon (not D100 but same building blocks) and recent The Laundry.

The other natural option is Savage Worlds. It's more cinematic than BRP but it is clever system that makes it feel rules-light to the GM but crunchy to the players. The support for Savage Worlds is amazing.

Quote from: stu2000;521021I tried hard to like the Supernatural game, because I like the show. It was my first experience with Cortex. I didn't like it. I've since tried other iterations of Cortex, though, with Firefly and a couple other things. I still didn't like it. I can't say, though, that I liked it for horror less than I did for other genres. So if you like it, I'm sure it does horror perfectly well. I just don't like it.

We played quite a bit of Supernatural this real. I liked the system. It was easy to create a interesting, well rounded character and in play I found it very smooth in play, the kind of game fades nicely in the background. And we did some pretty cool things with Plot Points, which I appreciate my sound a stark contradiction to my previous statement but in my view but actually the ability to be able to fix things in the narrative that don't fit right can result in an experience which in its entirely is more believable.

I've not run it though, so this is just from the player point of view.

Quote from: Silverlion;521029MHP? I'm not sure. I feel its too fiddly. Honestly, I want the players heads on "What their character is thinking/doing/talking about.." rather than on fiddling with dice and talking in the mechanical abstracts. A common flaw I see in a lot of "Story" games. They focus on the mechanics so much, that the real story is lost. (I'd rather see someone talking about how cool it was to run up the wall to Spider-Man, and commiserate about his broken date, then "what dice did what..." if that makes any sense.)

That makes a lot of sense. I'm perfectly happy with the overall design goals of the new Marvel game but I've held back from pushing the "Add to Cart" button because it just seems so darn fiddly - not in terms of complexity but very deliberate in the way you are meant to engage with the mechanics.

In reminds me oddly of Lady Blackbird.  Lady Blackbird is a very simple game however I find it fiddly in the wrong places. When taking action Lady Blackbird rewards players for framing the specifics of action in a way draws on as many traits and keys as possible.  As it were I'm just hardwired to internalise the character, go with what feels right and then check the character sheet to see what to roll - possibly throwing in some Hero points if it's something that really matters to the character.  The end result isn't necessarily all that different but the process is critically important to me.

I hope to get a chance to play MHRP but for now I'll hold fire.

Quote from: Soylent Green;521054So want a generic, medium crunch system that can do different genres and you don't want it to be too mate-gamey like Fate?

If you like BRP in principle, that probably ought to be your starting point. I'm not really the BRP expert between Runequest and the different editions of Strombringer chances are there is something closer to what you are looking for. And then there are spin offs like Pendragon (not D100 but same building blocks) and recent The Laundry.

The other natural option is Savage Worlds. It's more cinematic than BRP but it is clever system that makes it feel rules-light to the GM but crunchy to the players. The support for Savage Worlds is amazing.

I love Savage Worlds so freakin' much...

That said, there's also BASH which, while known as a Supers game, is also has fairly versatile Fantasy and Sci-Fi versions. Straight up horror has never been done with it officially, but either it was being kicked around or I was going to suggest it...I honestly don't remember...=P

Savage Worlds does have all kinds of options for fantasy and horror, though.

Quote from: elfandghost;521009BUT no Cortex+ rulebook..?

I think there's one (meaning, a stand-alone setting-neutral core rulebook) slated for release late this year.

Quote from: elfandghost;521016You know the more systems I read and the more I buy the more I get fed up with the hobby. I think the problem could be this: the people who design games aren't the people who play games and who have other things in their lives like kids, girlfriend, regular work and other hobbies.

This, I think, is a big draw of "classic" games (e.g. TSR-era D&D, Traveller, Runequest, Call of Cthulhu) for me: they've emerged from, and been refined through. years of actual play, rather than theory-wank and customer-focus groups and design-by-committee trainwrecks.

For the most part, they offer immediate hooks into adventure for GMs and players alike, while remaining moddable and flexible if you want to explore alternatives.

Some modern games retain this awareness of what makes a game actually tick at the table (nWoD, for the most part, does this orders of magnitude better than the oWoD, IMHO), and they earn their place at my shelf and at my game table.

Regarding a "go-to system", I've long given up on finding one. I've since learned to appreciate games for what they are. I love D&D for its archetypal classes, for the experience level ladder, for being focused on exploration, for shamelessly recycling ideas from all over pulp fantasy and even SF, and for its ease to modify for different settings, from post-apocalyptic science-fantasy (like Aos' Metal Earth) to Gothic horror (like misterguignol's hacks that he's been posting to this very forum). I love Runequest for the gritty combat and the emphasis on myth, a counterintuitive mix by today's contrived design standards that gives something greater than the sum of its parts, that feels more like the Eddas and the Bhagavad Gita than whatever it is that kids are reading or watching nowadays. I love WFRP for presenting a grim yet humorous take on the fantasy tropes that D&D helped popularize, while at the same time poking fun at our perception of the Middle Ages, and resulting in a game that combines the urgency of an impeding apocalypse, historical satire and lethal but rewarding ventures into "a grim world of perilous adventure."

And yet there might still be room on my shelf for a fantasy game. If I felt compelled to run, say, a game set on Tolkien's Middle-Earth, I'd go off looking for another game -- maybe MERP, or The One Ring, or Legends of Anglerre -- and try it. Which is part of the fun, for me anyway.

Mind you, I was into a big Savage Worlds kick until fairly recently, but even then I felt SW wasn't the right answer for every gaming premise. I still think SW exceeds at doing over-the-top action scenarios (think Jerry Bruckheimer, Roland Emmerich and Michael Bay movies). I'm not even so much burned out on the system, as I'm burned out on this particular sort of game. I can still vouch for SW's effectiveness at emulating this sub-genre on your gaming table.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;521023Cortex itself never impressed me. Felt like the bastard child of Unisystem and Savage Worlds, and I would just play one of those instead.

Now I like All Flesh Must Be Eaten as much as the next gamer (were that every genre had as comprehensive and useful a RPG as AFMBE), but Unisystem is an engine whose appeal as a system totally escapes me. Though I admit to not having actual play experience with it.