Reposted from rpg.net, I think this is probably a better site for the thread actually.

What games do you think epitomise the spirit of old school gaming?

A list proposed in an rpg.net thread includes:

Classic Traveller
Runequest 2 (3 will do)
Stormbringer (the original one)
Tunnels & Trolls
Gamma world (preferably the original)
Bushido
Call of Cthulhu (IMO second or third edition)

Which looks good to me, though I'd drop Stormbringer personally and would add in some iteration of DnD, either the basic set or the Rules Cyclopedia.

What do you think?

Note, for the purposes of this thread, old school ends with the release of Vampire in 1992, from then old school is over baby. If you disagree, and most of you will, start your own damn thread :-)

Seriously, we just need some parameters and if we don't cut off in the early 1990s we'll have lists full of Exalted and UA which are distinctly not old school, great as they both are.

I have to agree about adding a version of D&D.  Personally I would go with BD&D, for me it would be the red box edition.

Morrow Project always gave me that old school feeling.  Especially the first edition before they added in skills and it was all attribute based.

Glad to see Classic Traveller up there though.  Always loved that one.

Just my two cents.

I consider Interlock games - Mekton II and Cyberpunk 2020 - to be old school if only because they were core to my gaming experience in my mid to late teens.

Also remember that GURPS was pre-1990 and Rifts was pre-1992. Actually, Palladium Fantasy is obviously old school and it was enough of the "go to" game in my area for people tiring of AD&D that it might very well be a core game. I'd even dare to say that there might be two distinct periods of "old school" - one pre somewhere in the 1980s and one post up until the early 1990s.

Do we have a definition for 'old-school', or is it just whatever we like to think it is?



[I like Mr Analytical's take on it.]

OK, well, OD&D has got to be in there.

Also, Empire of the Petal Throne, for the setting.

My thought was to axe Stormbringer, too, as it really wasn't particularly seminal to the hobby.  Also, Bushido is out, as it never had the profile that makes it stand out as a "core" game.

Adding another base hit for TSR, how about Top Secret or Marvel Superheroes?  And as long as I've mentioned superheroes, I'd seriously consider Villains & Vigilantes, even though I never played it, personally.

A final quibble -- I'd consider ending the "Old School" period earlier than 1992.  For one thing, I'm pretty sure that Vampire: the Masquerade was released in 1991.  More to the point, though, there was a wide field of transitional games that really made me go "Buh...wha?" in the late-80s.  Shadowrun, Space: 1889, and Ars Magica could all be considered the vanguard of the New Wave as much as the last of the Old School.  So I'm in favor of rolling that date back to 1989, with the release of Shadowrun.

!i!

(P.S. And looking up-thread at Wil's response, of course Palladium Fantasy and Cyberpunk 2020 belong on the list.)

Personally, I think old school died way before '92, by the way. Or alternatively, there are subphases of it. '70s games are one thing, Rolemaster and FGU-ish games are already another. So are GURPS and Megatraveller.

Oldest oldschool phase: does not possess a comprehensive skill system, nor is absence of said skill system missed.

The Fantasy Trip should definitely be on the list.

Probably Rolemaster as well.

I'm trying to articulate a reason why C&S shouldn't be on the list. Actually, I don't know the game very well, but it seems like an early branch out from the adventure-oriented game that I think of as truly old-school.

I've got to put the FGU games on there. They were unified only in that they epitomized to me what it is I think of when I hear "old school."

Arduin is old school.

There's a book that came out--I didn't use it much--it came out in 80 or 81 and it was ubiquitous in $1.00 bins for years after that, like "Frampton Comes Alive." It was The Highest Level of All Fantasy Wargaming, by Bruce Galloway. It was very, very whatever it is we call old-school.

GURPS 2nd edition it epotomizes old school for me

i'll second top secret.  i never played the other, "s.i." or whatever edition.  

and the cutoff definitely has to be late 80's.  

the latest version of d&d (in this category) would be ad&d 1, or basic/expert.  even RC is too late.

"core" old school?  I think the original list is a bit off.

-D&D (OD&D/Basic D&D/AD&D 1st)
-Traveller
-CoC
-V&V

I think that does it as the core.  Most early old school games were just dirivitives of these groundbrakers.  Sure, other games had cool inovations (I mean, what game didn't in the earliest days of the hobby).  But if you had to form a "core" the above list ould about do it IMHO.

Never played "Aftermath", but it feels like it's missing.  Likewise "Metamorphosis Alpha".

Quote from: whiteyfatsGURPS 2nd edition it epotomizes old school for me

Original GURPS came out around 1985. So, if your cutoff is mid-1986 it just gets in there.


 What about CHAMPIONS?  Either that or Villans & Vigilantes I remember as the first superhero RPG that anybody was talking about around that time....CHAMPIONS always seemed to be the better or more popular of the two.


- Ed C.

Yea, Champions needs in, as well as Metamorphosis Alpha.

And I'd have to throw in GURPS 1st. Still have my box somewhere.