I think SJ Games should be move to yellow at worst.

According to your own standards red is reserved for bad actors.

I quote: "Entities who have caused harm to people or businesses, have a hostile stance to those of differing ideological views or in general have engaged in anti-consumer practices."

All they've done is supported causes to the left of your own. Abortion is a highly traditional liberal point of view that has next to nothing to do with woke culture, and the Ukraine issue is even more complicated in many ways.

As long as they don't crudely and blatantly shoehorn it into their products or use it as a club to batter others, it's their right to have an opinion as long as they don't force it down your throats and unlike most of the cocksuckers on the list, the legitimately don't seem to be punishing people for disagreeing with them or stifle free speech.

Quote from: Psyckosama on June 30, 2023, 11:02:33 PM
I think SJ Games should be move to yellow at worst.

According to your own standards red is reserved for bad actors.

I quote: "Entities who have caused harm to people or businesses, have a hostile stance to those of differing ideological views or in general have engaged in anti-consumer practices."

All they've done is supported causes to the left of your own. Abortion is a highly traditional liberal point of view that has next to nothing to do with woke culture, and the Ukraine issue is even more complicated in many ways.

As long as they don't crudely and blatantly shoehorn it into their products or use it as a club to batter others, it's their right to have an opinion as long as they don't force it down your throats and unlike most of the cocksuckers on the list, the legitimately don't seem to be punishing people for disagreeing with them or stifle free speech.

Why is a gaming company talking about abortion and Ukraine?? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.

Quote from: squirewaldo on June 30, 2023, 11:57:29 PM
Why is a gaming coming talking about abortion and Ukraine?? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.

See, that's the thing... Steve Jackson Games doesn't force that crap into their products.

They gave an opinion outside their gaming content. People are permitted to have their political stances, even if you disagree with them, as long as they do not try and muzzle others.

Quote from: Psyckosama on July 01, 2023, 12:27:44 AM

Quote from: squirewaldo on June 30, 2023, 11:57:29 PM
Why is a gaming coming talking about abortion and Ukraine?? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.

See, that's the thing... Steve Jackson Games doesn't force that crap into their products.

1) Take a look at COVIDIOTS and other political attack cards in ILLUMINATI 2020.
2) In the past year, SJWG have supported 2 extremist causes, and made products to raise money for the causes.
3) They donated revenue to an extremist group.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 05, 2023, 07:12:27 PM

Quote from: Psyckosama on July 01, 2023, 12:27:44 AM

Quote from: squirewaldo on June 30, 2023, 11:57:29 PM
Why is a gaming coming talking about abortion and Ukraine?? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.

See, that's the thing... Steve Jackson Games doesn't force that crap into their products.

1) Take a look at COVIDIOTS and other political attack cards in ILLUMINATI 2020.
2) In the past year, SJWG have supported 2 extremist causes, and made products to raise money for the causes.
3) They donated revenue to an extremist group.

I tend to agree with Psyckosama. SJG is yellow. Red should be reserved for genuinely bad actors who are actively hostile to customers of a different political persuasion. They can make political jokes, Illuminati is a pretty jokey product that pokes fun at everything.

Quote from: Thor's Nads on July 06, 2023, 09:28:50 PM
I tend to agree with Psyckosama. SJG is yellow. Red should be reserved for genuinely bad actors who are actively hostile to customers of a different political persuasion. They can make political jokes, Illuminati is a pretty jokey product that pokes fun at everything.

Yeah, they might take occasional pot shots but they're not hostile. If you're left wing and you buy their products? Great! if you're right wing and buy their products? Great! Buy their products, play them how you want. If you disagree with their take on things, you do you. They're not the types to put fucking instructions on how to right-think in their games.

Red should be reserved for people who are legitimate cunts, both sides. Not people who are using their right to free speech in a manner you don't personally approve of.

So the google doc says that there are better games for samurai than l5r and better swashbuckling than 7th sea, anyone care to point me toward those? Those are two or my favorite genres and I've been looking.

Quote from: chacha95 on July 07, 2023, 05:31:35 AM
So the google doc says that there are better games for samurai than l5r and better swashbuckling than 7th sea, anyone care to point me toward those? Those are two or my favorite genres and I've been looking.

Just get older editions. The old L5R stuff is better anyways.

There is a new phone app called Veebs (iPhone or Android) which scans the bar-codes of products and warns of products with Woke leanings.  I wonder if there's a way to give them Consumer's Guide information on the RPGs from Woke companies so they can implement it as a public warning?

What's the consensus on Osprey Games? They seem pretty professional and I haven't seen anything woke from them, but I've only been able to give them a skin deep look.

Also, I think Pelgrane Press should be moved to Yellow. The "SWGs make great punching bags" line and #Feminism rpg are unfortunate, but these seem to be one offs. They seem to otherwise be pretty good about keeping overtly political statements out of their games. They also have some really nuanced and well-fleshed out sections on incorporating race and totalitarianism into a game in Trail of Cthulhu, although that may be because Ken Hite wrote it. I also haven't heard of them being antagonistic towards fans in any way.

so - TSR has been removed?

Quote from: Psyckosama on July 01, 2023, 12:27:44 AM

Quote from: squirewaldo on June 30, 2023, 11:57:29 PM
Why is a gaming coming talking about abortion and Ukraine?? They have already shoehorned it into their products. No thank you.

See, that's the thing... Steve Jackson Games doesn't force that crap into their products.

They gave an opinion outside their gaming content. People are permitted to have their political stances, even if you disagree with them, as long as they do not try and muzzle others.

Pscykosama,

I used to think that as well, until Illuminati 2020. Quoting my earlier post:

Quote from: AglondirWow. It gets worse. I just saw "Illuminati Second Edition 2020" on Ebay. Not sure how I missed this, but I haven't seen anyone mention it here before. Mods: Although technically it relates to a card game (and not an RPG) it is published by Steve Jackson Games, and seems related to this thread. If not, feel free to move it to a more suitable location.

First, some background. Many of you grew up playing the original Illuminati card game in the 80's; or the collectible version, Illuminati: new World Order in the 90's. Both of those games were fun card games about conspiracies vying for world domination. They took an even-handed stance when it came to politics, mildly poking fun at both sides of the aisle. There were cards for both Bill Clinton and Al Gore, as well as Ronald Reagan and George Bush.

The new game looks like an expansion that mostly focuses on Covid. While I haven't seen the entirety of the new game—and if you have, please chime in—the cards I see on Ebay are woke and one-sided. Examples:

Black Lives Matter: No artwork. Text reads: "A turning point for society... this card counts as Special. When it is played, keep it on the table like an NWO, but nothing can remove it."

The Wise Doctor: Obviously Dr. Fauci.

USA #1 (in deaths): Probably meant to be Covid deaths (but according to Wikipedia, we're #21.)

Autonomous Zones: Artwork shows happy, diverse, peaceful people behind a barricade with a tent in the background. Alignment is fanatic and liberal, so this probably is meant to represent CHAZ/CHOP.

Mass Demonstrations: Artwork shows happy, diverse, peaceful people wearing masks. (Probably meant to be BLM/Antifa, but it is hard to tell since nothing is on fire.)

Covidiots: Artwork shows angry virus hoaxers. Three are wearing red caps, one is holding a sign about the Bill of Rights. Everyone in the artwork is white.

Pro-virus Rallies: Artwork shows angry people spreading the virus. Five people wearing red caps, everyone in the artwork is white.

That Guy: Although you can't see the figure's face, the orange skin, red tie, and small hands are obviously a thinly-veiled reference to Trump. The card's alignment is: conservative, criminal, and violent.

Statue Smashers: The only card I see ridiculing the Left, making fun of people who indiscriminately topple statues.

I've previously defended SJG in this forum. I don't care if they want to defend abortion rights or gun rights outside the product. But this? This is Woke garbage.

Just wanted to chime in and add more context to R.Talsorian Games, specifically Cyberpunk Red. While I think they still belong pretty squarely in the Yellow, their products lately have been skewing more and more toward Woke narratives.

- The book Tales From the Red lists pronouns for every NPC, including several "they/thems" and promotes exotics (i.e. furries) as an unjustly lambasted group
- Black Chrome cover art features a badass looking punker chick with "problem glasses" (it really just ruins what is an otherwise cool image)
- Black Chrome also has a section highlighting six of the largest black markets in the game. In the order they appear in the book, one is owned by a gay guy who runs the market with his husband and (adopted?) daughter. The next is run by a butch woman. The third is run by teenager with they/them pronouns (that section is also a fukken nightmare to read). The next is run a rich, white guy who has a contraceptive implant (at least implying he bangs woman). Then there's the market run by a Desi bird-kin lady, with a beak and feathers for hair. And finally, one run by a frumpy white dude with a bad comb-over.

Curiously, though, the section of Black Chrome that delves into the economics of the game is somewhat refreshing. While it makes mention of the PCs "seizing the means of production," it explains that this means the players should be movitated to create new markets to rival the corporations. So, although the phrase "seizing the means of production" is straight out of Marxism, the game actually encourages enterpreneurship and the creation of free markets to compete against Crony Corporatism (i.e. fascism).

So while all the stupid pronoun shit and weird virtue signaling can be easily ignored, or even excused as part of the dystopian hellscape the world has become, it still feels like there's some modern messaging being pushed in the game itself unrelated to the conceits of the setting.

Again, probably not enough for the Red list, but definitely something to keep an eye on.

Add Bastionland Press, makers of Into the Odd and Electric Bastionland to the Red List as their Discord is a bunch of lefties that kick people off not leftist enough. I know I will never buy anything from them again. Also the same Sword Ream crowd as the Rainbow OSR, NSR and the FKR Collective.

Quote from: Eldrad on September 16, 2023, 02:52:27 PM
Add Bastionland Press, makers of Into the Odd and Electric Bastionland to the Red List as their Discord is a bunch of lefties that kick people off not leftist enough. I know I will never buy anything from them again. Also the same Sword Ream crowd as the Rainbow OSR, NSR and the FKR Collective.

Is it an official Discord, or a fan one? The distinction matters.

Also, how are their products? If the games themselves are free of wokeness, the above is probably only sufficient enough for a Yellow listing. You don't NEED to use the Discord to enjoy the game, so it's an ancilliary factor at best.