Strength
Agility
Mind

And that's it.  Feel like fewer=more powerful effect, less chance of dumpage.

Quote from: TristramEvans;897116Playing with the notion of utilizing the four suits of the Tarot and their myriad associations as a set of abstract attributes for the fantasy game I'm working on, in the vein of Everway. For example:

SWORDS
Intelligence, Problem-solving, Perception, Physical and moral conflict
CUPS
Empathy, Intuition, Charisma, Congeniality, Dreaming
WANDS
Passion, Creativity, Stamina, Coordination, Energy
COINS
Health, Strength, Wealth, Stability, Resourcefulness

Sounds neat. Would the stats themselves be generated with the cards, or simply represented by the suits?

Quote from: Arkansan;897709Sounds neat. Would the stats themselves be generated with the cards, or simply represented by the suits?

In the context of the game, character creation is done by combining templates. The game itself uses a mix of dice and card draws.

I think there's something very special about the 6 stats from D&D, 3 physical, 3 mental. But I think you can also make due with 4 stats.

Quote from: cranebump;897668Strength
Agility
Mind

And that's it.  Feel like fewer=more powerful effect, less chance of dumpage.

Sounds like the game "Warrior, Rogue, and Mage" (where the stats are Warrior, Rogue, and Mage).

Quote from: Xúc xắc;899018Sounds like the game "Warrior, Rogue, and Mage" (where the stats are Warrior, Rogue, and Mage).

Really? I haven't seen that one. I know that Bare Bones fantasy expresses skills as professions, but they didn't go whole hog on professions as abilities.  Anyhoo, I'll look it up. Thank you.

People often seem to have a phobia against many stats, but I disagree. After I played Artesia , I found that many stats are almost as easy to use as just a few, as long as there is a clear list of them in front of you on your sheet (this does have an upper limit of course, but it is much higher than most people would think. Artesia has 15 stats, and this might be close to the limit for me, but not at all as bad as many think). Skills tend to get messier because of their variability. even leading to players forgetting that they have a certain skill. Stats tend to be clearly laid out on the sheet.

Of course you could also play a game in which stats and skills are two sides of the same coin, with no strict distinction. In this case I would try to limit myself to several broad categories, with an upper limit close to the same as stats above.

Quote from: TristramEvans;897116Playing with the notion of utilizing the four suits of the Tarot and their myriad associations as a set of abstract attributes for the fantasy game I'm working on, in the vein of Everway. For example:

SWORDS
Intelligence, Problem-solving, Perception, Physical and moral conflict
CUPS
Empathy, Intuition, Charisma, Congeniality, Dreaming
WANDS
Passion, Creativity, Stamina, Coordination, Energy
COINS
Health, Strength, Wealth, Stability, Resourcefulness

This is very close to my system in La Vendetta. Did Everway use something like this too?

Quote from: Xúc xắc;899018Sounds like the game "Warrior, Rogue, and Mage" (where the stats are Warrior, Rogue, and Mage).

Very good game. If I had a group that wanted Point Buy Fantasy, I'd go WRYM in a heartbeat.

It's a free download and now it's a Open Source SRD thingie
http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/

Quote from: Trond;899036This is very close to my system in La Vendetta. Did Everway use something like this too?

Everyway used a custom "tarot-like" deck ("vision Cards" or something hokey like that, iirc) and used the four classical elements as suits and character's attributes Earth, Air, Fire, and Water.

I have a meta-attribute system. On one axis I have Mind, Body, Spirit. On the other I have Power, Accuracy, Speed. It creates 9 different meta-attributes. I derive the attribute set from there.

So the two "obvious" sets I've found in published RPGs:
Mental (Mind's Power, Accuracy, and Speed combined)
Physical (Body's Power, Accuracy, and Speed combined)
Spiritual (Spirit's Power, Accuracy, and Speed combined)

And...
Health (Power of Mind, Body, and Spirit)
Precision (Accuracy of Mind, Body, and Spirit)
Speed (Speed of Mind, Body, and Spirit)

But a more fanciful one I've used derived from my meta-scheme:
Muscles (Body's Power and Speed)
Brains (Mind's Power and Accuracy)
Senses (Speed of Mind and Spirit)
Nerves (Accuracy of Body and Spirit)
Heart (Spirit's Power)


I'll always have a place in my heart for D&D's 6 attributes, but really, I find Constitution to be redundant with hit points to a degree, and Strength to be so narrowly focused that it seems better to just be an "add-on" Ability for those characters who are above average.

Quote from: Lunamancer;899316I'll always have a place in my heart for D&D's 6 attributes, but really, I find Constitution to be redundant with hit points to a degree, and Strength to be so narrowly focused that it seems better to just be an "add-on" Ability for those characters who are above average.

D&D's attributes are all redundant with class. The way it always works out in play is every fighter has high Strength and five other attributes. Every wizard has high Intelligence and five other attributes. It would be a lot simpler to just say characters have a "doing stuff" stat equal to 10+(level/2). Then give each class/race a bonus to the stuff they're good at: fighters are strong, wizards are smart,  gnomes are annoying, etc. That would also eliminate the problem of saying a class is good at something when they are only good at it if you have the right stats.

Anecdote: I once had some lucky rolls in a short AD&D2 game and played a wizard with a really high strength. Another player in the group rolled poorly but decided to run with it anyway. He barely qualified for Fighter. My wizard never cast a spell until he was 2nd level because bashing kobolds with his staff was sufficient. My wizard was better in melee combat than the fighter.

Quote from: Xúc xắc;899344D&D's attributes are all redundant with class. The way it always works out in play is every fighter has high Strength and five other attributes. Every wizard has high Intelligence and five other attributes.

... but this doesn't at all resemble how I play D&D, and I generally play BtB. I can't tell if this describes how you actually play or if this is just a hostile caricature of the game. Either way, I don't think it's at all accurate.

QuoteIt would be a lot simpler to just say characters have a "doing stuff" stat equal to 10+(level/2). Then give each class/race a bonus to the stuff they're good at: fighters are strong, wizards are smart,  gnomes are annoying, etc. That would also eliminate the problem of saying a class is good at something when they are only good at it if you have the right stats.

Why does my fighter have to be strong? Why I can't play one who is smart, quick, or charismatic instead? What you suggest isn't "simpler." It's just really generic and really boring.

QuoteAnecdote: I once had some lucky rolls in a short AD&D2 game and played a wizard with a really high strength. Another player in the group rolled poorly but decided to run with it anyway. He barely qualified for Fighter. My wizard never cast a spell until he was 2nd level because bashing kobolds with his staff was sufficient. My wizard was better in melee combat than the fighter.

This sounds fishy. I'll spare the number crunching and just say this is equal parts how you choose to play and exaggeration.

But even if this is really were true of D&D, so what? The game was designed for randomly determined attributes to matter.

HERO SYSTEM 6th Edition has 17 core stats. Why do I play this game I do not know...

The game that I'm working on uses 5 (so far):

Eye (perception, understanding and intuition)
Face (personality, social skill and reputation)
Heart (resilience, persistence and vitality)
Guts (athletics, combat skills and strength)
Soul (connection with nature and spirits)

I might change Heart because it makes me think of Captain Planet.

There are also 5 "classes" that sync up to these.