Artists lean left (on average!). But I wonder--specifically in games, are there any with notably conservative themes? 'Conservative' casts a wide net, and the libertarian emphasis of a lot of American conservatism might mean there are some themes that might fit into the American variety but not the European, for example.

Some of these might be unintentional--I am pretty sure Chaosium leans left, but Call of Cthulhu always struck me as an essentially conservative struggle to preserve one's world against unknowable, dangerous invaders.

Usually, the strongest conservative/libertarian angle in RPGs is that 'the authorities are useless, it's up to -us- to set things right'.

Sure, the government might lend a hand, but it comes down to people (the PCs) to right the wrongs, slay the dragon, etc, etc.

I think that word means too many different things (just like liberal does these days) so I would need a pretty clearly defined meaning of the word to have any sort of input. 

Are we talking about:

- classical burke'an - social evolutionism (basic schtick: antirevolutionism)
- religious reactionism (basic schtick: slowing down advances of corruption)
- monarchism and legitimism
- integral traditionalism
- counterrevolutionary

or what?

One could say for instance that Warhammer is unconcioussly promoting some sort of stoicism (conservative philosophy these days) as Chaos is born from human emotions, so cleansing yourself from passions make you better armoured against it.

Any of the above, to be honest, perhaps calling out which one you mean for each example. You could play a libertarian game about fighting a tyrannical government, a monarchical game defending the King against revolutionaries, or any other combination.

I think both tropes are more or less common even if not shown directly as conservative ones. TBH to really get conservative in a way that would be clear and vivid - I assume game moral systems would have to delve into judging of sexual behaviours - down with adult consent, and other liberal perspectives on the subject. Otherwise both fairy legitimism and anti-tyranny can easily be seen as left-leaning,.

Funny enough SIGMATA - this signal kill fascist - game made by leftist allows for right-wingish PCs fighting with secular fascism within USA, as factions are in large based on anti-Assad forces in Syria. So you can play libertarian rednecks or religious fundies from Bible Belt against statocratic regime.

Traveller is inherently capitalist and free market.

Quote from: David Johansen on January 29, 2021, 10:18:07 AM
Traveller is inherently capitalist and free market.

I know it gives off that vibe (which is part of the reason why I love it) but it isn't really mandated in the rules. I suppose the tramp freighter campaign is probably the most popular, even if most of the published adventure material (at least classic era) is more survivalist or mercenary.

This is kind of obscure but there was a supplement called Olympus Mons for an SFRPG called Stellar Wind.

And I quote: "With a touch of Ayn Rand, a touch of Heinlein and a slightly larger touch of Poul Anderson as inspiration, Olympus Mons is set in a time when the solar system is settled; great fusion-powered "scoop ships" travel back and forth between the stars; and a powerful, wealthy, terraformed Mars is the center of human civilization."

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/92841/Olympus-Mons

It's one of the few explicitly conservatively inspired RPG products I know of.

I would say that there is considerable "classical liberalism" still in some game themes.  Because of the times we live in, most classical liberal thought is rapidly being smeared as "right-wing".  However, the people doing the smearing aren't consistent enough about it to drive it out entirely, at least not yet.  This is a big reason why yesterday's darling of the left is tomorrow's target.

Well, the system I'm all but done writing probably falls under what you're looking for, though the label I choose to apply to it is Superversive.

What's that? Look at Game of Thrones; heroes are unheroic, people are generally bastards, virtues are subverted, love is tarnished, the world is ugly, and no matter what they sacrifice the heroes efforts ultimately don't change much of anything...

Superversive is the opposite.

Heroes are heroic. People are basically good. Virtues matter. True Love and Beauty are real and have power, and though the struggle is long and the sacrifices great, good wins in the end.

That may or may not be conservative to you, but it is certainly counter to the values of the mainstream cancel culture.

QuoteIt's one of the few explicitly conservatively inspired RPG products I know of.

As an European reactionist I cannot even say how hurtful for me it to heard anything touched by Ayn Rand or Heinlein (I love Troppers but still) to be "conservatively inspired".

QuoteI would say that there is considerable "classical liberalism" still in some game themes.  Because of the times we live in, most classical liberal thought is rapidly being smeared as "right-wing".  However, the people doing the smearing aren't consistent enough about it to drive it out entirely, at least not yet.  This is a big reason why yesterday's darling of the left is tomorrow's target.

Also PC-centric nature of RPG game sort of naturally leads to at least element of liberalism/libertarianism even if game wants to emulate socialist or conservative themes.

QuoteWhat's that? Look at Game of Thrones; heroes are unheroic, people are generally bastards, virtues are subverted, love is tarnished, the world is ugly, and no matter what they sacrifice the heroes efforts ultimately don't change much of anything...

I know millenials like to paint ASOIAF this way - but for all it's cynicism and darkness it's also world balanced by BIG DOSE of humanist romanticism even though often tragic but definitely shown as something... worthy. There are truly cynical, amoral writers out there, but for all his subversiveness GRRM is too much of old fat hippy to really delve there.

QuoteThat may or may not be conservative to you, but it is certainly counter to the values of the mainstream cancel culture.

Half-counter. Cancel culture as much as against conservatism, is also deeply moralistic, though toxic and authistic about it (and probably often hypocritically narcistic). So at least some of those themes would work for them as well - and be countered more by grimdark, than by modern SJ ideals.

Quote from: Null42 on January 29, 2021, 09:19:26 AMSome of these might be unintentional--I am pretty sure Chaosium leans left, but Call of Cthulhu always struck me as an essentially conservative struggle to preserve one's world against unknowable, dangerous invaders.

That is an extremely woke way to look at it and I think any extreme leftist would agree with that assessment of Call of Cthulhu mythos, lore, and writing.

Lovecraft himself fueled his writing with his extreme insane levels of racism. When he saw a mixed person, it caused him existential dread and nightmares. Kind'of like an inverse Snowflake-racist.

Quote from: Null42 on January 29, 2021, 09:19:26 AM
Artists lean left (on average!). But I wonder--specifically in games, are there any with notably conservative themes? 'Conservative' casts a wide net, and the libertarian emphasis of a lot of American conservatism might mean there are some themes that might fit into the American variety but not the European, for example.

Some of these might be unintentional--I am pretty sure Chaosium leans left, but Call of Cthulhu always struck me as an essentially conservative struggle to preserve one's world against unknowable, dangerous invaders.

I would say that Traveller does lean libertarian. As written, it's pretty skeptical about government as a narrow balance between anarchy and totalitarian control -- the major governments are more feudal or corporate than democratic. The Zhodani as the shocking extreme of totalitarianism.

I think D&D and imitators also lean libertarian, though less explicitly. Characters are typically homeless soldiers-of-fortune, with no social connections and living on pure cash. Some people think of this as the RPG default - but many other RPGs have PCs with more social connection, like superhero RPGs with secret identities, acting as part of societies (Ars Magica, most World of Darkness, Star Trek), and similar.

Also, there are a number of RPGs that follow more socially conservative source material: like the various Conan RPGs, Pendragon, various Old West RPGs, James Bond 007, and some steampunk like Space: 1889. Conservatism might or might not be baked into the rules, but the source material is generally more conservatively themed. On the most explicitly conservative, there is Greg Costikyan's Price of Freedom RPG.


Source: http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2010/11/retrospective-price-of-freedom.html

I partly disagree about Call of Cthulhu. Lovecraft's fiction is quite different in theme from traditional alien-invasion stories. Lovecraft often write stories about how other creatures have already been on Earth for longer than humans, and often how human institutions are part of them. His horror was often set in his home territory New England, where protagonists find horrific things in their own neighbors or even in themselves (The Shadow over Innsmouth). Some of this bleeds over into the game. On the other hand, a lot of Call of Cthulhu RPG adventures lean more traditional conservative horror - about going out to exotic locations and fighting off invaders and weird cults.

The Chill RPG draws from more traditional horror like Dracula and other monster movies, where crosses and holy water are important. I'd say it's a better example of conservative defending the world against evil.

Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on January 29, 2021, 11:09:43 AM

QuoteWhat's that? Look at Game of Thrones; heroes are unheroic, people are generally bastards, virtues are subverted, love is tarnished, the world is ugly, and no matter what they sacrifice the heroes efforts ultimately don't change much of anything...

I know millenials like to paint ASOIAF this way - but for all it's cynicism and darkness it's also world balanced by BIG DOSE of humanist romanticism even though often tragic but definitely shown as something... worthy. There are truly cynical, amoral writers out there, but for all his subversiveness GRRM is too much of old fat hippy to really delve there.

I said "Game of Thrones" and not "A Song of Ice and Fire" for a reason. Similarly, you can tell in Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" films that he didn't quite grok the concept of mercy to the degree that Tolkien conveyed in his works, particularly at the end when Golem is forced into the pit with Frodo pushing and grabbing at him rather than because of his own crazed glee; looking up at the Ring as he paid no mind to the ground beneath and danced right off the edge.

Hollywood treatments are in general more banal and nihilistic than the stories they adapt from. Game of Thrones was always more graphic and bloody than the books they were based on... particularly once they ran out of the actual material and had to improvise an ending.