I just remembered what puts the kibosh on this whole theory.

Anyone here remember Smurf from the SJG forums?
 That guy is a gung-ho Socialist - yeyt he loves GURPS as much as I do ...and I'm supposedly the right-wing pro-capitalist nutjob guy.

He's made a few NPCS for me.

 Smurf has just as much fun with GURPS - and as far as I can tell neither one of us has seen a political agenda in the thing.

 Maybe people just bring their own political baggge with them and such things aren't really part of the game after all.

- Ed C.


Smurf's profile:
http://forums.sjgames.com/member.php?userid=2871

His sig used to say something like : "..you known that I'm a socialist..."

Quote from: KoltarI just remembered what puts the kibosh on this whole theory.

Anyone here remember Smurf from the SJG forums?
 That guy is a gung-ho Socialist - yeyt he loves GURPS as much as I do ...and I'm supposedly the right-wing pro-capitalist nutjob guy.

He's made a few NPCS for me.

 Smurf has just as much fun with GURPS - and as far as I can tell neither one of us has seen a political agenda in the thing.

 Maybe people just bring their own political baggge with them and such things aren't really part of the game after all.

GURPS CAN'T have (or would have to work really hard to have) a political slant because it is a Generic ruleset. Hence GURPS.

Individual sourcebooks - sure, why not?

My point stands, especially for GURPS - you can make any political statement you, as a GM, want to, with any ruleset. Are some games that are world-specific slanted a certain way IN THEIR SETTING? Sure. But GURPS isn't because it dosn't have a setting. Neither is D&D - it is just a ruleset. You either have to make your own setting or buy one that could have a certain agenda, but the basic 3-book set - I'd say it dosn't have any slant that I can see. I could take D&D and forge a socialist Utopia run by Old Geezer if I wanted to, or the most Facis-tastic hellhole with Me on the throne, or anything in between. But that comes from me, not D&D.

And I could run riot through the Magic Deer's kingdom, rules bedamned. I'm a Roleplayer - saying I can't do something is throwing the gauntlet down. Unless I'm the GM, in which case I am God Incarnate...

NO initiative roll.

Quote from: RPGPunditI doubt that most gamers are so politically motivated in their choice of games as to consciously like say, Traveller or GURPS just because of their politics.  They might be doing this without thinking it through consciously, but that's another story.

RPGPundit

Sometimes, an orc caravan is just an orc caravan, not a metaphor for the evils of industrialization in an agrarian economy.

God, not even I can say that with a straight face.

Speaking of The Magic Deer...

I think it would be really awesome if every year, the Magic Deer submitted himself to ritual sacrifice, and his flesh used to feed the twenty poorest families of the kingdom...

... and if the sacrifice is honestly made, the Magic Fawn is reborn the next dawn, but if not, the Fawn is not reborn, and blight strikes the land...

... and you have just learned of a plot to magically imprison the Magic Deer and substitute a false Deer.

I mean, if you want to go back to the old "Blood on the Snow" religion, go all the way.

Quote from: RPGPunditI think that if we're talking about POLITICAL ideology (and not, say, the "ideology" of RPG Theories or something like that), what you're suggesting would only really be applicable to the most blatantly politicized RPGs (stuff like Blue Rose). But aside from that, I doubt that most gamers are so politically motivated in their choice of games as to consciously like say, Traveller or GURPS just because of their politics.  They might be doing this without thinking it through consciously, but that's another story.

RPGPundit

I agree.  In most cases.  However, my "what if" scenario is this:  What if there were a few who really are politically motivated?  Would these people not act in the way most political leaders do?   They "inspire" their followers with an ideology and a zeal, making false accusations against "Them" and making promises regarding the Glorious Future?  For the followers of such people, it is much as you say; they are rarely consciously aware that they are following a political agenda.  Most often, when it comes down to the actual fight, they feel as if they are the ones who are defending from the onslaught of "The Establishment", and they corner themselves in such a way as to make their only option the overthrow of Le Ancien Regime.  To them it is an "Ideal" embodied in the "Vision" of their leader(s) that they follow.  Yet their leaders count each and every head in their party as a Victory.  And en mass, through this process, they can and often do effect change, though not always for the better.  Anyway, I'll leave off this topic for the time being.  I have nothing substantial to base my hypothesis on at the moment.  It is merely a gut feeling (and not a particularly pleasant one):  for the true ring leaders, the RPG War is largely, and subliminally, about a political agenda.   But if so, to what end?  :raise:

Of course, I understand this goes beyond the scope of your original intent.  So I'll drop the subject.   No offense intended.   It was simply something that occurred to me as possible somewhere along the way.   I thought this would be an appropriate place to mention it in passing.   I now wander back to what I was working on.  Thanks for the ear and the reply.   There's really nothing more to say on this at present.  And in all likelihood it is merely an over-active imagination at work in any case.   My hope and expectation is that I'm completely wrong.

Quote from: Old GeezerSpeaking of The Magic Deer...

I think it would be really awesome if every year, the Magic Deer submitted himself to ritual sacrifice, and his flesh used to feed the twenty poorest families of the kingdom...

... and if the sacrifice is honestly made, the Magic Fawn is reborn the next dawn, but if not, the Fawn is not reborn, and blight strikes the land...

... and you have just learned of a plot to magically imprison the Magic Deer and substitute a false Deer.

I mean, if you want to go back to the old "Blood on the Snow" religion, go all the way.

See, that's what I'm talking about.

Quote from: Old Geezer... and you have just learned of a plot to magically imprison the Magic Deer and substitute a false Deer.

As VERY cool as that sounds, it pretty much means I gotta play in the Blue Rose setting to be one of the nappers/rebels.

What to do, what to do...

Quote from: darAs VERY cool as that sounds, it pretty much means I gotta play in the Blue Rose setting to be one of the nappers/rebels.

What to do, what to do...

But you see, YOU have found out that the Deeroids are actually RIGHT.  By fucking around with ANCIENT symbols, they have changed reality in ways they don't even realize themselves.

If the False Deer is sacrificed, the land WILL die.  Not just "the land ruled by the kingdom of the Magic Deer", oh no.

The land.

ALL the land.

So how do you a) break the hold of the Deerhumpers while b) prevent the entire world from dying?

Coyote might know...but old Sin-Ka-Lip has his OWN agenda.  He doesn't like the Deerhumpers either, but neither does he want to let the whole world die.

Fuck with the Old Magic without knowing what you're doing and it'll turn around and bite you squarely in the nuts.

Quote from: Old GeezerCoyote might know...but old Sin-Ka-Lip has his OWN agenda.  He doesn't like the Deerhumpers either, but neither does he want to let the whole world die.

But he WOULD like to stick it to Mink, if I remember my favorite pervert of the Native American Gods, and just mindfuck the deerhumpers and their Magic Deer in one grand jest.

(Wow. How do you make Blue Rose appealing?
Fuck with the basic structure of the setting.  )

Quote from: jeff37923But he WOULD like to stick it to Mink, if I remember my favorite pervert of the Native American Gods, and just mindfuck the deerhumpers and their Magic Deer in one grand jest.

(Wow. How do you make Blue Rose appealing?
Fuck with the basic structure of the setting.  )

*bows*

Like I said, fuck with the Old Magic at your peril.

The man has been roleplaying for decades - he is one of the mythical Proto-Gamers, who supped at the table with the Gods Themselves. He KNOWS how to bend a setting to his will.

Quote from: WerekoalaThe man has been roleplaying for decades - he is one of the mythical Proto-Gamers, who supped at the table with the Gods Themselves. He KNOWS how to bend a setting to his will.

The second thing I ever learned about gaming was when Gary Gygax said

"There is no rule so important it can't be ignored or changed if it gets in the way of fun."

I would consider "setting" to be part of the rules.

Hot Damn Old Geezer! Anarchy! Smash it all to hell and enjoy the ride! Give me liberty or give me DEATH! On a grand scale!

I can see it now, TheRGPSite leads a Blue Rose revival!

Quote from: Old GeezerThe second thing I ever learned about gaming was when Gary Gygax said...

Ok. I'll bite.
What was the first?

Quote from: Dirk RemmeckeOk. I'll bite.
What was the first?

When Rob Kuntz said, "Every ability or special weapon needs a countermeasure".

That has really gone by the boards, it seems.  For instance, Star Wars d20 was FULL of attack abilities and Force powers with no defense or countermeasure -- there was "Enhanced Critical", which increased your chance of getting a crit, but no "Decrease Enemy Critical".  "Power Attack" was a stronger bonus than "Fighting Defensively".  Stuff like that.  Also a number of abilities and Force powers just...worked.  It all depended on how good the attacker rolled on the dice.  "Friendship" and "Diplomacy" were especially prone to abuse in this way.