Quote from: Eric Diaz on July 13, 2023, 09:07:38 PM
No one mentioned Pendragon? It is worth a look.

I've always wanted to use this. But I don't quite get it.

QuoteCharacters start during character creation with a base of 15/5 in Valorous/Cowardly

Valorous 15 / Cowardly 5

Quote...a base of 13/7 in their Religious Virtues...

Chaste 13 / Lustful 7
Forgiving 13 / Vengeful 7
Merciful 13 / Cruel 7
Modest 13 / Proud 7
Temperate 13 / Indulgent 7

QuoteFor every point above 10 on a Virtue, a point must be placed below 10 on another Virtue.

Since I have 6 virtues >10, I must make 6 virtues < 10:

Energetic 9 / Lazy 11
Generous 9 / Selfish 11
Honest 9 / Deceitful 11
Just 9 / Arbitrary 11
Pious 9 / Worldly 11
Prudent 9 / Reckless 11

Quote...and a base score of 10/10 in the remaining values.

Trusting 10 / Suspicious 10

Is that right? It seems very regimented.

Not exactly sin and virtue, but I would look at adapting Unknown Armies sanity mechanics. Have each virtue opposed by a sin, a skill or action tied to each end of the spectrum, with the ranking on the scale determining the bonus and penalty to each. Thus, for example, wrath would give a bonus to combat but a penalty to empathy or diplomacy. Scores on track could also have permanent and temporary component such that most of a sin modified could be bought off with an appropriate deed, but never completely erased.

I wonder should sins and virtues be simple opposites.

Now in classic model you have Deadly Sins or λογισμοὶ and you have 3 Divine Virtues and 4 Cardinal Virtues, but they are not made for symmetry, until someone I guess in later ages invented Seven Cardinal Virtues to oppose Deadly Sins. Which wass weird take - because evil and good are not mirrors of each other, and generally every Virtue opose all Vices, and vice versa.

So maybe it should be general Virtuous/Graceful vs Vicious/Graceless score, with sum of all point determining where you are on scale.
Hard to really emulate this since grace is not really a merit, and RPG is kinda all about PC merit within mechanics, but it also kinda would work more holistically.

Let's say you can have Virtue points and Vice points both, but the change of them is limited - you cannot enhance Virtue without reducing your Vices.

Mythic Babylon has Purity, which can be a really major mechanic.

"Most people have Purity scores between 50% and 75% ... bathes regularly, well-groomed, free of major deformities and disfigurement ... no more sinful than most people, not blighted by evil or ill omens, and able to freely enter temples..."

Minor, temporary purity losses: spilling blood, entering a cursed area, observing a bad omen, being the *target* of a sorcery spell, accidentally break a local taboo, breaking your word, ...
Major temporary losses: accidental killing, killing in a fight or battle, theft, accidentally breaking an oath, using necromancy

Minor, permanent losses: casting (most) sorcery spells, cold-blooded murder, deliberate oath-breaking, forgery, ...
Major permanent losses: using sorcery to maim or kill, desecrating, murder of a family member / high priest / king, receiving a permanent injury, ...

Most divine spells have a minimum required purity to cast them. As purity drops, it becomes harder to enter any sacred area, social skills are reduced, the character becomes physically ill, and eventually they become a wild, feral thing.

Temporary losses are fixed by grooming, ablution, ritual, making offerings, etc.
Permanent increases, including recovering from permanent losses, consumes XP!