In terms of value to a store, I'm trying to figure out how best to present RPGs in a way that they will be competitive for space with CCGs as things to be run or played. Thing is, from hanging out and observing a few CCG tournaments, I cannot say that it will be money because a CCG draft is a guarenteed group of sales for those involved.

So does anybody have any ideas or suggestions on how to present RPGs in a way that they will be considered viable competetors for space to play in a FLGS?

Quote from: jeff37923;679899In terms of value to a store, I'm trying to figure out how best to present RPGs in a way that they will be competitive for space with CCGs as things to be run or played. Thing is, from hanging out and observing a few CCG tournaments, I cannot say that it will be money because a CCG draft is a guarenteed group of sales for those involved.

So does anybody have any ideas or suggestions on how to present RPGs in a way that they will be considered viable competetors for space to play in a FLGS?

I'm hard pressed to come up with one really.

I mean, groups will buy food/drinks but so do CCGers. We'll buy books and dice, but I really doubt we'll drop the money that crad-floppers will.

We generally require less (no) staff support. No score keeping, braket updating, prize support, etc...

Mandatory overpriced official character sheets combined with high PC mortality?

Quote from: Piestrio;679904I'm hard pressed to come up with one really.

I mean, groups will buy food/drinks but so do CCGers. We'll buy books and dice, but I really doubt we'll drop the money that crad-floppers will.

We generally require less (no) staff support. No score keeping, braket updating, prize support, etc...

Yeah, that is the thing. For most RPG Players, it is just a handfull of comparatively high dollar purchases competing with a torrent of low dollar purchases. The CCG Players have got it by volume, if not individual price.

Considering the money singles sales rack up for any serious CCG store, card games win on individual item price, too.

Yeah, I think this is a bit of a fools errand unfortunately.

If the store is busy and popular nearly any other group of gamers will probably be profitable than an RPG group.

Thinking a bit more about this, I don't think there's any "rational" economic argument for a store to displace CCG space for RPGs. It still makes sense to have both, obviously, as it broadens their customer base.

Quote from: jeff37923;679907Yeah, that is the thing. For most RPG Players, it is just a handfull of comparatively high dollar purchases competing with a torrent of low dollar purchases. The CCG Players have got it by volume, if not individual price.

CCGers also regularly make these small purchases; you mentioned limited formats, but the current games also have regular expansions that you need to buy into to stay current.

RPG's generally don't offer that any more - expansion books are relatively rare and not even every player will need them, dice only need to be bought once (Even if you like buying new dice for new games, like I do), counters only need to be bought once ever.

Ok, you might not like this solution, but it is one possible way:
Go as close as you can to miniature-based boardgames as you can.
No, i do not suggest tweaking the rules, even thought that might happen.
I mean this:
* Use Miniatures.
* Use any fitting enough floorplans you have, or make your own.
* Only play the "dungeouncrawl" part in D&D settings, in Cyberpunk and Shadowrun, just the 'run, in other settings, just one mission or similar.
No "how the assignment is accepted" or things afterwards.
* Essentially, make it visual, simpler to understand, and less time-consuming.


Or, if you really want another idea, compare games with food:
Only one type of food do not work in the long run, the others are also needed. Not just cardgames: boardgames and rpgs is neccesary too, to get a good all-round effect.

It just isn't going to happen I don't think.

A good CCG practically prints money. RPGs aren't a money sucking endeavor.

Its good for us RPGers, but bad for the people selling them .

(Honestly, I wouldn't want to change it. The only way to change it is to make RPGers spend more money somehow, and I wouldn't want to be in a hobby as moneysucking as CCGs)

I just don't see how it can be done. CCGs just have too much volume to compete with. What with starter decks, booster packs, singles, play mats, card sleeves, etc. With RPGs once you have to core books you don't have to buy anything else, but for people who are competitive in the CCG seen you have to be up on the latest sets. It is one of the reasons I don't play MTG anymore, in my area casual play is almost not a thing, everyone at least does Friday Night Magic.

It seems like FLGS in my area always end up being largely Magic oriented. Not a bad thing, just a thing.

"Card game players don't throw Molotovs through yer front window just 'cause ye'r not carryin' enough card games. Things burn, is all I'm sayin', guv'. This is a pretty shop, would be a shame if anythin' 'appened to it..."

Can't be done.

CCGs are literally a license to print money. Cardboard and ink is cheap. Repeat purchases are guaranteed due to speculative secondary market.

Minis are somewhat a license to print money. Plastic and paint is cheap. high front load purchase is necessary to complete an army. Conversions assure multiple purchases from hobbyists.

Gear to port and protect both assure additional sales.

All RPGs have in sales comparison are splats and modules. Outside of snack consumption -- and perhaps the store selling stationary -- I don't see how RPGs will ever have an economic impetus to push aside those groups for more space.

The only real big opportunity would be board game space. When they are hot, they are hot. But when they lag they take up lots of shelf space, lock up a lot of inventory money, and can have high entry cost. Board games are getting very expensive lately, but stupidly RPGs are trying to compete in high prices (beautiful production values granted, but not all that necessary).

The thing is, since most other big box stores barely bother with RPGs at all, where else would there be public exposure, let alone public space to play? Some things really aren't about the money, but have a real cultural impact in the long arc.

Ii think the original D&D and numerous other RPGs could very easily present their rules-sets in the form of a TCG. The format wouldn't be conducive to crunchier games, but the format might even be beneficial for a light game.

I don't know if that would really help. It's just a novel way of repackaging of rules, in a delightfully inconvenient format where the pages can be shuffled and lost.

If it was a regular card game, derived from setting but not rules related, that's been tried several times: Spellfire, Vampire the Eternal Struggle, Rage, Mythos, On the Edge, etc. The boom and bust is gone.

The best option I can see is an evergreen format that's locked at around 3 times a minimum wage hour, for greatest market accessibility. Then it could be printed repeatedly on the cheap, and eventually stay cheap through multiple print runs and little format change. That would entice big box stores to even bother stocking it, and they'd just dump it next to other board and card game classics, like Uno and Monopoly. (And no, they would never be as successful as those examples. But if they become as well known as Hungry Hungry Hippos or Tiddly Winks that's good enough.)