The Companion expansion for the edition of Dungeons & Dragons was never produced. Sure there was a boxed set for the next edition but what would it have looked like if the earlier version had come out? Erol Otis and Jeff Dee artwork to be sure. Another layer of cover detail too. But I think it would have been very different mechanically. To the best of my knowledge this is something the OSR has not tackled! Dee and Otis are both alive, I wonder what it would cost to hire them to illustrate it?
So let's think about mechanics.
First off, I'd like to suggest that levels continue much as they do in AD&D, fixed experience rates and a couple hit points for most classes. So perhaps dual classes and subclasses like prestige classes would be in order. Let the fighter gain some Thief levels or Ranger levels. I like this as it allows new classes to be introduced and answers the question about what happens at higher levels. Another route would be allowing Attributes to be increased as the character gains levels. So, let's add Ranger, Paladin, Illusionist, and Druid as classes.
New races might be okay too. I'd go with Hobgoblins, Goblins, Orcs, Ogres, and Gnolls and possibly rules for undead and lycanthrope characters as well as guidelines for other non-human PCs. Probably allow higher hit dice monsters at higher levels.
I could see adding wizard spells to ninth level but I'd be tempted to go with Illusionist and Druid spells instead. If we're capping pure classes at 15th level and allowing level stacking for non-elves the higher level spells might not be needed.
The monsters are an interesting problem. Just for giggles let's leave the classical demons to AD&D and introduce a bunch of gribbly extraplanar critters from the pens of Otis and Dee instead. I think a less heaven and hell more Cthulhu and Pinhead cosmology might be a fun way to go. No whitewashing just really twisted and demented but original stuff.
The book isn't infinite but I think it'd be nice to bring in a little more detail on the known world as seen in X1. Not the Gazeteer Mystria just a fantasy world with "Vikings here, Mongols here, Orcs here"
For campaigns I think it'd bee cool to discuss becoming an epic superhero / demigod, conquering kingdoms, and running the combat system with miniatures to do mass battles.
Thoughts?
Several years back there was the B/X Companion http://grognardia.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/review-bx-companion.html (http://grognardia.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/review-bx-companion.html) (I don't have it).
The main question for me is what would a Companion Set add for Thieves? The highest level for Thieves in Expert is 14th, and at 14th level Thieves have 99% success in all skills except Pick Pockets which is 125% and Hear Noise which is 1-5.
The Companion Set promised
QuoteThieves will therefore gain new abilities requiring greater skill and danger. These will include the ability to climb overhangs, upside down, ventriloquism, powers of distraction, and the ability to mimic voices.
The "real" companion and masters expansion expanded the levels of B/X all the way up to 36 - but all it did was slow down Thief progressions so it took until 25th level to get 99% at anything!
Other than the change in thieves, I don't think there really was all that much difference between B/X and Mentzer's BECM. What was different was the format. It was changed from a simple set of rules to more of an introductory game to teach how to play.
And to a certain extent, BECM did do several of those things you speculate on.
While no rangers, Fighters can opt to become Avengers, Knights, or Paladins (based on their alignment. Clerics can become Druids. Magic-Users don't have much choice, but they can opt to own a tower or become independent. Thieves kinda get the shaft (I suspect Mr. Mentzer didn't like thieves). (Also bear in mind, the Ranger and Illusionist were from people outside TSR which Gygax borrowed for AD&D. D&D was supposed to be a less-Gygax thing)
All sorts of monster race classes were introduced in the various Gazetteers or Creature Crucible series.
And BECM D&D didn't use the classic cosmology at all. No demons ( or AD&D's devils), which again, was a Gygaxian thing largely developed at the end of OD&D and start of AD&D. It had critters from the 5 spheres and the 4 elemental planes.
Its evil outsiders were Nightshades, which made it into 3.x
Ah well, there's nothing new under the sun.
Even so, I wonder what it would have looked like.
Handling the level limits is a big problem. Dual classing seems a reasonable course. I'd probably add another thief class rather than new abilities, bard maybe?
Quote from: David Johansen;940144Ah well, there's nothing new under the sun.
Even so, I wonder what it would have looked like.
Handling the level limits is a big problem. Dual classing seems a reasonable course. I'd probably add another thief class rather than new abilities, bard maybe?
This is good idea for a thread but I have to ask, are you using 1981 standards fir determining what should be in the "Companion" or 2017?
I just don't see multi-classing making it in.
I'll have to review my copies of B/X this evening but it seem as far as players the trajectory was towards more domain management for players and more styles of exploration on the DM side. That said I would expect planar travel and what became War Machine to be more likely than dual classing.
I'm guessing, race as class probably presented issues with dual classing as a mechanic in the eyes of the developers.
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;940227I'm guessing, race as class probably presented issues with dual classing as a mechanic in the eyes of the developers.
B/X D&D already has multi classed characters - Elves!
(As a side note I've always assumed that Race as Class was just a presentational thing. Dwarves and Hobbits can only be fighters. Elves can only be multi-classed Fighter Magic Users. Add in some racial characteristics and you've got a pointlessly complicated presentation. Merging the two into "Dwarven Fighter", "Halfing Fighter", "Elven Fighter Magic-User" then makes perfect sense.)
The problem for higher levels after B/X is that it's based on OD&D and there's really nowhere to go in that game after about level 12 (the higher level spells in Greyhawk seem a bit pointless).
I never liked BEMI, I felt something was missing. If only they could have produced something like, I dunno,....."BECMI".
It's harder to come up with new good stuff after level 12 without multi classing. I went that route because it allows the introduction of some new classes and makes higher levels more about breadth than depth of ability.
I've never liked races as classes and have always hated that they made halflings fighters instead of thieves. Even so, multiclassing is an easy answer to what happens to demihumans after their level limit: they move on to something else.
Alternately you could introduce new class abilities like defense for fighters -1 ac per level past 10 and maybe a warband of followers, tightrope walking, acrobatics, con artist, and escape artist for thieves, higher level spells for magic-users and clerics. That's probably where they were headed. I just like multiclassing better I suppose.
It's not like there's a right answer really, it never happened and the direction of D&D was altered by the time of the Metzer edition.
Quote from: David Johansen;940341I've never liked races as classes and have always hated that they made halflings fighters instead of thieves.
The "Hobbits are Thieves" theory comes from Bilbo being classed as a Thief. He never opens locks, finds or removes traps, climbs walls (though Frodo and Sam do this with a rope they aren't any good at it), and Bilbo's attempt at Pick Pockets fails badly. Bilbo is useless at Thief skills. Oh, hang on, that makes him a perfect match for a D&D Thief ;-)
Quote from: David Johansen;940341Even so, multiclassing is an easy answer to what happens to demihumans after their level limit: they move on to something else.
It does remove the entire point of the demihuman level limit though. Like many people, I just ditched the limit.
Quote from: David Johansen;940144Ah well, there's nothing new under the sun.
Even so, I wonder what it would have looked like.
The cover would have continued the nesting in the first two, showing a god scrying on the wizard scrying on the battle in the basic set. The question is how they'd further recurse on that in the Master set. Probably by showing a group of players at a table & a DM holding up a picture of the god scrying on the wizard scrying on the fight.
Many of these things were addressed in BECMI/RC and, more recently (OSR), by ACKS.
In fact, ACKS has a Bundle of Holding sale (https://bundleofholding.com/presents/ACKS) going on right now.
Quote from: David Johansen;940103First off, I'd like to suggest that levels continue much as they do in AD&D, fixed experience rates and a couple hit points for most classes.
BECMI/RC has post-level-cap "ranks" that increase attack rolls and even some abilities (e.g. a level 13, rank G Dwarf gets half damage from all spells and spell-like effects), but not to-hit rolls, HP or spells.
ACKS doesn't really address this, though all human character classes are capped at 14 by default, making the demihuman cap less relevant.
Quote from: David Johansen;940103So perhaps dual classes and subclasses like prestige classes would be in order.
BECMI/RC handles some classes as proto-prestige classes. A non-landed 9th-level Fighter may elect to become a Paladin (if Lawful), an Avenger (if Chaotic) or a Knight (any alignment). A non-landed 9th-level Neutral Cleric may pursue the path of the Druid.
And neither has dual- or multiclassing but ACKS features several "dual class" classes (Elven Nightblade, Assassin, Zaharan Ruinguard) as well as a comprehensive class-building system in the Players' Companion.
Quote from: David Johansen;940103New races might be okay too. I'd go with Hobgoblins, Goblins, Orcs, Ogres, and Gnolls and possibly rules for undead and lycanthrope characters as well as guidelines for other non-human PCs. Probably allow higher hit dice monsters at higher levels.
BECMI/RC has you covered in spades: GAZ10 Orcs of Thar for the humanoids, and the Creature Crucible series (PC1-4) for fey folk, werebeasts, underwater dwellers and (I shit you not) gnomes who fly WWI-style airplanes.
ACKS has a build-your-own-class toolkit in the Players' Companion, but not a lot of race options (though these seem easy to cook up).
Quote from: David Johansen;940103I could see adding wizard spells to ninth level but I'd be tempted to go with Illusionist and Druid spells instead. If we're capping pure classes at 15th level and allowing level stacking for non-elves the higher level spells might not be needed.
ACKS caps human PCs at level 14 and handles all spells level 7-9 as rituals requiring a certain investment of time and resources.
Quote from: David Johansen;940103The monsters are an interesting problem. Just for giggles let's leave the classical demons to AD&D and introduce a bunch of gribbly extraplanar critters from the pens of Otis and Dee instead. I think a less heaven and hell more Cthulhu and Pinhead cosmology might be a fun way to go. No whitewashing just really twisted and demented but original stuff.
Wrath of the Immortals had "fiends" but ACKS (so far) only has a few planar monsters, even with the new Lairs & Encounters bestiary.
Quote from: David Johansen;940103The book isn't infinite but I think it'd be nice to bring in a little more detail on the known world as seen in X1. Not the Gazeteer Mystria just a fantasy world with "Vikings here, Mongols here, Orcs here"
Either the D&D RC Mystara apoendix, or ACKS' Auran Empire Primer, will cover this.
Quote from: David Johansen;940103For campaigns I think it'd bee cool to discuss becoming an epic superhero / demigod, conquering kingdoms, and running the combat system with miniatures to do mass battles.
BECMI/RC handles all of this, and ACKS does so with even more aplomb (except for immortality/apotheosis), but then it more than makes up for it with a smattering of subsystems for high-level hijinks (criminal intrigue, trade, magical research, etc.).
Quote from: The Butcher;940504In fact, ACKS has a Bundle of Holding sale (https://bundleofholding.com/presents/ACKS) going on right now.
Awesome. Too bad I already have it all. :D