Quote from: Peregrin;389057Maybe the problem is you old folks.

I'm just into my 30s and I'm already 'old folks?'

Good gravy. I don't even have young'uns yet!

The fact of the matter is, despite their age, I see these people interact in stores, at gaming clubs, whatever. And a decent amount of them are socially deficient, all-around annoying, or just uber nerds. From teenager to grandpa. They do little to help grow the hobby.

Gotta love Erik Mona's take on the OP's link:

Quote from: Erik MonaI can think of about 26 full-time employees at Paizo who are probably glad we didn't take this idiot's advice.

--Erik

Quote from: Benoist;389063Gotta love Erik Mona's take on the OP's link:

We'll see in a few years who was right, and who will be eating their words.

Quote from: ggroy;389069We'll see in a few years who was right, and who will be eating their words.

Indeed, though maybe no one will in the end.

Quote from: Benoist;389063Gotta love Erik Mona's take on the OP's link:

GM Skarka's response to Erik Mona is pretty good as well.

Quote from:  GM SkarkaSeriously?

His advice is "be nicer people and foster a more positive culture online."

That makes him an idiot?

I'm beyond disappointed in your response, Erik. I'm disgusted.


There's a whole bunch of knee-jerking to this article, which entirely misses the point.

What he's talking about is that the WORST elements of the RPG community, as represented online, is sadly defining the segment for people OUTSIDE the community -- even in those areas where RPGers should be valued.

...and that's a bad thing.

A direct quote from his closing:

"I would really like the tabletop RPG community to be at the center of roleplaying in all media, sharing their insights, but it’s not going to happen unless that center attracts."



The result of saying that? A negative pile-on by the usual suspects... aided and abetted by professionals looking to buff up their populist cred.

Irony, thy name is Gamer.

I also find it interesting that all of the qualities that GM Skarka listed in his Transmedia blog posts for a Transmedia company are being used successfully by Paizo.

Erik's post (linked above) has been moderated:

~ considering that we are not discussing some random person on the internet, but someone who is an ENworlder and posting in this thread, it is certainly NOT appropriate to call him an idiot. Thanks. Plane Sailing ~

Quote from: jeff37923;389072GM Skarka's response to Erik Mona is pretty good as well.

Rebuttal.

Trotskyists/Christians/goths who say "Other Trotskyists/Christians/goths are arseholes. Ha ha, right on. We're not like that though" never seem to succeed in convincing the mainstream to like them, or even to see them as different to 'those others' who are the problem. Probably partly because the negative stereotype is precisely that of little groups who have frantic arguments despite being identical to outsiders.

Quote from: Age of Fable;389082Trotskyists/Christians/goths who say "Other Trotskyists/Christians/goths are arseholes. Ha ha, right on. We're not like that though" never seem to succeed in convincing the mainstream to like them, or even to see them as different to 'those others' who are the problem.

A "guilt by association" problem.

That's what the groups in question inevitably decide, yes.

Quote from: Kaz;389062I'm just into my 30s and I'm already 'old folks?'

Good gravy. I don't even have young'uns yet!

The fact of the matter is, despite their age, I see these people interact in stores, at gaming clubs, whatever. And a decent amount of them are socially deficient, all-around annoying, or just uber nerds. From teenager to grandpa. They do little to help grow the hobby.

True -- they are around.

But I don't associate those people with "gamers."  I know plenty of people with an obsession for one medium/hobby or another, and they're perfectly functional human beings.  It's just a matter of having your priorities straight and common sense.

Quote from: ggroy;389083A "guilt by association" problem.

That's what the groups in question inevitably seem to conclude, anyway. Or at least that combined with "mainstream people are ignorant."

In any case, the original article comes close to concluding that "the product was fine, but the audience was faulty", and that seems to suggest someone who doesn't get how selling stuff works.

It's all bullshit to me. Want to grow the hobby? Play games. Introduce new people to your games, not people who already are gamers. Make them entertaining, and they'll ask for more. Stop being cheap bitches, and offer games to your nephews and nieces. Expose them. Then they'll go buy games on their own, if so inclined.

That of course assumes that one is able to function socially by having non-gamer friends, being a decent host when inviting people over to play games, and be able to make the experience entertaining while playing.

That's it, really. This has nothing to do with people having opinions on the net. Nothing *at all*. People outside the hobby don't give a flying fuck about RPGnet, ENWorld or theRPGsite. They don't even know what those are. That's a blunt, cold hard fact.

Quote from: Age of Fable;389086That's what the groups in question inevitably seem to conclude, anyway. Or at least that combined with "mainstream people are ignorant."

In any case, the original article comes close to concluding that "the product was fine, but the audience was faulty", and that seems to suggest someone who doesn't get how selling stuff works.

That wasn't what he said. He didn't say that the rpg customers wouldn't buy the product. The problem was that they came in and shit on everything and drove other customers away. The customer can indeed be wrong in that case.

Quote from: Benoist;389088That of course assumes that one is able to function socially...

Which seems to be the crux of the problem. The gamers making the biggest impressions on those outside of gaming (who might be introduced to the hobby) are the socially retarded, the Lawncrappers.