Quote from: FrankTrollman;390505Right now you get extra power slots for having renown and you get bonus renown for using options out of expansion books. Buying new books and making characters with the material in them specifically makes your character more powerful.

You can't make your own characters in the current season. It's all pre-gens. There is no way to make characters with the material in newer books. So you're talking nonsense right off the bat.

But here's how the renown point system worked in the previous season:

Renown Point (RP) Awards

* accomplishment; maximum frequency; RPs awarded

* Complete an encounter; 1/session; 3rp
* Reach milestone; 2/chapter; 2rp
* Use DDI Character Builder; 1/season; 5rp
* PH3 class and/or race; 1/season; 2rp
* PH3 feat; 1/season; 1rp
* Revive a dying PC; 1/season; 1rp
* Hit for 15+ damage against 1 enemy; 1/season; 1rp
* Kill 3 minions in 1 attack; 1/season; 1rp
* Take 50 damage in 1 session; 1/season; 1rp
* Survive 8+ sessions without dying; 1/season; 1rp
* Complete all quests; 1/season; 1rp
* Moment of greatness; 1/season; 1rp

There were 12 encounters in the season, divided into three chapters. That means that the total available renown points from completing encounters was 36; the total available points from reaching milestones would be 12. Thus, the easy points that anyone could get for doing no more than showing up and standing in a corner: 48.

Total available points if you hit every single reward: 63.

Points available to someone who uses PHB3 material: 3.

So let's be really clear here. When Frank says "you get bonus renown for using options out of expansion books," what he means is that under 5% of the available points in season 1 were from options out of expansion books. It is also perhaps important to understand that the best reward available is a 50 point reward -- so if you show up for every session, you are only 2 points short of getting a chance at that one. Although if you show up for every session, you probably completed all the quests. 1 point short. Use the free demo Character Builder, and you're there. Copy a PHB3 feat out of a friend's book, and you're there. Avoid dying, and you're there.

Quote from: thecasualoblivion;390507They've also explicitly stated that encounters season 3 will be essentials.

Oh, I totally missed that. Can't say I'm surprised, though. OK, let me make another prediction: it'll be set in Nentir Vale.

Quote from: Melan;390499Some of it has happened, but rapidly rising production costs have meant most developers play safe and focus on the largest market share they can grab, which is a lot like how TV networks and major record labels work. Games will genuinely diversify only when more people learn to accept B-grade visuals* in exchange for experiences that target a niche audience, much like how you don't expect Avatar-level CGI from a B movie.
_________
* In the current environment, this means something like Doom3, which is already pretty good, just no longer cutting edge.

See, right there, that's exactly what I'm talking about.  You've got to expand your horizons.  You're focusing on a narrow band of the market and assuming the whole thing is that way.  It isn't.  This isn't the RPG market we're talking about, where it's all about the hardcore geeks and there is no other parallel market grouping.

There's more out there than just the latest AAA shooter. The indie scene has exploded in the past several years and produced some incredible successes, adventure gaming came back, the Sims rolls along like the juggernaut it has always been, Facebook gaming exploded, free to play gaming barged its way in from overseas, and on and on.

Just like the movie industry, there's many kinds of products aimed at all sorts of people, and in my experience these days you really can find something for anyone.

Ok, I must have missed that part of the DMG or whatever. Reknown Points?

They put ACHIEVEMENTS in 4e?

Unbelievable.

That said, never heard of it in the game I'm playing on Sunday - probably a good thing.

Quote from: Werekoala;390513Ok, I must have missed that part of the DMG or whatever. Reknown Points?

They put ACHIEVEMENTS in 4e?

Unbelievable.

That said, never heard of it in the game I'm playing on Sunday - probably a good thing.

Reknown is unique to D&D Encounters. It's not in any rule book.

Quote from: Werekoala;390513Ok, I must have missed that part of the DMG or whatever. Reknown Points?

They put ACHIEVEMENTS in 4e?

Unbelievable.

God forbid.

XP for exploration and other goals =/= kewl Reknown Points for things like... using the Character Builder program. Also, someone's idea for a house rule (neat as it is) doesn't equal established game rule.

Still, interesting article - thanks for the link!

Quote from: J ArcaneSee, right there, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You've got to expand your horizons.

You can think they're retarded, J, but the speculations I'm talking about aren't coming from me or this site, but from within the video-game community.

I'm interested, though.  What do you think is causing the shrinking video-games market in Japan and what makes the Western market immune to such a trend?

Quote from: Peregrin;390532You can think they're retarded, J, but the speculations I'm talking about aren't coming from me or this site, but from within the video-game community.

I'm interested, though.  What do you think is causing the shrinking video-games market in Japan and what makes the Western market immune to such a trend?

The video games market in Japan is only shrinking if you ignore Nintendo.  It also requires ignoring the hnadheld market, which is increasingly the main gaming market in Japan and has been for a while.

As for the rest of the companies there that are struggling, maybe it's because they're a bunch of unimaginative douchebags who've been slinging the same drek for 30 fucking years and only now have had the competition needed to make them finally irrelevant.  

How many Final Fantasy games does the world really need?  This is a game that's gone through more rehashes than any series on the planet.  People were bound to get tired of playing it, and a whole string of clones, eventually.

Japanese game development has always defined the unimaginative, corporate approach to game design.  Their creative ethic is all but non-existent outside a handful of designers who've lucked into something like autonomy.  

Now that a Japanese made console is no longer the driving force for the industry, they have to compete with a much stronger Western development community, and they're failing, badly.

Quote from: J Arcane;390541How many Final Fantasy games does the world really need?

If it's Final Fantasy Tactics, a never-ending supply is good for me!
(seriously, love those games)

Quote from: J Arcane;390541Now that a Japanese made console is no longer the driving force for the industry, they have to compete with a much stronger Western development community, and they're failing, badly.

Good points.  I've heard mention that even Hideo Kojima admitted we produce better quality games, and he met with the Infinity Ward developers a while back.

Steering this back on topic a little bit, do you think there's anything that the RPG hobby could learn from video-game companies in terms of garnering new players, or do you think we've already burned out past the point of salvaging the industry?

Quote from: Peregrin;390615or do you think we've already burned out past the point of salvaging the industry?

If the open gaming + OGL thing had never happened with D&D in the early-mid 2000's, would tabletop rpgs have burned out even earlier?

Quote from: ggroy;390617If the open gaming + OGL thing had never happened with D&D in the early-mid 2000's, would tabletop rpgs have burned out even earlier?

Not sure, but the d20/3e thing was a perfect storm.  I don't know if something like that'll ever happen again.

Quote from: J Arcane;390512See, right there, that's exactly what I'm talking about.  You've got to expand your horizons.  You're focusing on a narrow band of the market and assuming the whole thing is that way.  It isn't.  This isn't the RPG market we're talking about, where it's all about the hardcore geeks and there is no other parallel market grouping.

There's more out there than just the latest AAA shooter. The indie scene has exploded in the past several years and produced some incredible successes, adventure gaming came back, the Sims rolls along like the juggernaut it has always been, Facebook gaming exploded, free to play gaming barged its way in from overseas, and on and on.

Just like the movie industry, there's many kinds of products aimed at all sorts of people, and in my experience these days you really can find something for anyone.

Now, now, let's not go overboard here. Yes, the "indie game" segment has undergone significant growth, but let's keep some perspective here: it did not grow from a "small" segment of the market to a "big" segment. It grew from "microscopic" to "tiny". That's not exactly an "explosion", and only an "incredible success" if we apply completely different standards than we do to mainstream titles.

Where are the sales figures for the most popular indie games? In the thousands? Tens of thousands? Modern Warfare 2 sold 7 million copies on its first day.

I'm not trying to diss indie games; they're one of the more innovative segments of the computer game hobby and are worth looking at. But let's avoid false bombastic statements and acknowledge that while they might be interesting, they're certainly not big. Not any more than Weird Science Fantasy OD&D campaigns are in comparison to the entirety of the RPG hobby.

Just pointing out.

There are indie games on the front pages of the biggest digital storefronts in gaming.  Steam, XBLA, PSN, all basically invented to give indies a place for their games to reach a mainstream audience, and they have.  Games like Braid, Trine, and Puzzle Quest have been great successes across all market vectors, to a level that the shareware age could never dream of.  Making your first indie game and throwing it on services like these has become the same stepping stone into the larger industry that it is for film houses.  

Yeah, there's not many of them that'll come close to the ridiculous numbers of Halo or MW2, but the same could be said of any indie film as well baring the occasional anomaly.  Puzzle Quest by all accounts I've seen did phenomenally well, selling a bazillion copies across like 30 separate platforms.

The bottom line however, is that they are a relevant section of the market, and it's basic ignorance to ignore that impact, especially as they prove the lie to nonsense like the post I was responding to.