Hush it with your huwhite supremacy VisionStorm! Next you'll be saying MMA fans might know martial arts goes beyond chopsocky flicks.

The ONLY way to heal the harm done to our hobby is to ban the monk class!!!

WotC must act now! :O

If you don't like the product, then don't buy it. Simple as that.

I'm perfectly happy with my collection of OGL Conan.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 09, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
If you don't like the product, then don't buy it. Simple as that.

Dude, you are are missing the whole point of this thread.

Before we proceed to not buy it, we must ruthlessly mock its soyness for all the world to see.

It is our natural right, given to us by our creator.

Quote from: Spinachcat on November 09, 2020, 07:07:02 PM
Hush it with your huwhite supremacy VisionStorm! Next you'll be saying MMA fans might know martial arts goes beyond chopsocky flicks.

The ONLY way to heal the harm done to our hobby is to ban the monk class!!!

WotC must act now! :O

I can not stand that class.  I always imagine David Carradine speaking in that pothead tone attempting to sound philosophical.

Quote from: Jaeger on November 09, 2020, 07:59:04 PM

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 09, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
If you don't like the product, then don't buy it. Simple as that.

Dude, you are are missing the whole point of this thread.

Before we proceed to not buy it, we must ruthlessly mock its soyness for all the world to see.

It is our natural right, given to us by our creator.

Greetings!

Yeah! I don't think it's about even critiquing a particular product, which Darrin Kelly seems to miss entirely. It isn't about not just liking a game book because of Mechanics A or B, or style of Orange Rhinos.

It's a particular change to a beloved and popular product for particular political and ideological reasons--and pandering. It's openly bowing down to the SJW fucktards, and that is never a good thing to do, for our hobby, or anyone else.

Highlighting and critiquing such a shit product and company that does so is necessary to create pushback against such fucking morons, so in hopes that such fuckery doesn't spread and continue.

Darrin Kelly doesn't seem to understand that.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Darrin Kelley on November 09, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
If you don't like the product, then don't buy it. Simple as that.

I'm perfectly happy with my collection of OGL Conan.

Yes but what about the people that supported the Kickstarter before it decided to do this?

Are we meant to say 'Hey this isn't what we signed up for, give us a refund'?

Quote from: tenbones on November 09, 2020, 05:50:09 PM
Enjoy your Soy.

Another game to strike off the list. Money better spent elsewhere. Why invest in the cultural sensitivities of white liberals?

That's the only real culture they care about (which is why they're the actual racists)

Agreed and seconded. Too bad I don't like LUG Star Trek as much as I used too. I would buy an updated version of that in a heartbeat. I was and am not that much of 2D20 fan yet when the Klingons..fucking Klingons of all the races suddenly became inclusive and diverse with their culture well I expected Conan to be next.

Quote from: VisionStorm on November 09, 2020, 06:44:20 PM

Quote from: jhkim on November 09, 2020, 04:45:07 PM
Isn't that the point of the complaint? I agree with your point here - but that problem is that in practice, almost no one refers to Conan the Barbarian as a "martial arts film" or Errol Flynn as a "martial arts star". For example, in my copy of GURPS Martial Arts (3rd ed), the cover has a yin-yang symbol and there are seven weapon tables: Chinese, Japanese, Ninja, Philippine, Indonesian, Indian, and Korean. So clearly it's not about all combat forms but rather focused on Asian forms.

Unfortunately that's true, and it came about after the term "Martial Arts" became associated with eastern unarmed styles with the influx of Martial Arts films in the 70s, which continued in the 80s and somewhat the 90s.

However, that was at the turn of the last century. We're living in 2020 now. HEMA is all over YouTube. People know about Capoeira, Krav Maga and other non-Eastern martial arts as well. People should know "Martial Arts" extends beyond just eastern styles of unarmed combat by now, and even if they don't they're still in error and need to be corrected, not change the meaning of the term "Martial Arts" cuz some people are idiots.

This was a pet peeve of mine even in the 90s (the decade I started playing), and I would frequently correct people when it came up during play or character creation, and point out that swinging a sword itself was a martial art.

I think we're just agreeing here. I had exactly the same pet peeve.

As regards Conan - it sounds to me like Conan 2d20 originally had a talent tree called "martial arts" that implied something more like Asian styles, rather than just general combat skills. However, I only have the quickstart rules which doesn't have that tree - so I'm not sure what the deal is.

Quote from: ponta1010 on November 09, 2020, 08:12:50 PMYes but what about the people that supported the Kickstarter before it decided to do this?

Are we meant to say 'Hey this isn't what we signed up for, give us a refund'?

That is actually a really good question. If I back a Conan Kickstarter, I fully expect plenty of wanton carousing, whoring, random acts of violence, racism, etc., not some watered down bullshit. If I had backed this (I didn't because I greatly dislike the previous books they've done), I would indeed ask for a refund. My knee-jerk reaction is the creators would try to admonish me/you/whomever for being bigoted, whatever...

Quote from: Brad on November 09, 2020, 08:21:45 PM

Quote from: ponta1010 on November 09, 2020, 08:12:50 PMYes but what about the people that supported the Kickstarter before it decided to do this?

Are we meant to say 'Hey this isn't what we signed up for, give us a refund'?

That is actually a really good question. If I back a Conan Kickstarter, I fully expect plenty of wanton carousing, whoring, random acts of violence, racism, etc., not some watered down bullshit. If I had backed this (I didn't because I greatly dislike the previous books they've done), I would indeed ask for a refund. My knee-jerk reaction is the creators would try to admonish me/you/whomever for being bigoted, whatever...

Greetings!

Brad! Can you go into some detailed commentary about what some of their previous books were like--and what you didn't like about them?

I love Conan stuff. The thought of companies making Conan into some SJW jello fest just grinds my teeth.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: ponta1010 on November 09, 2020, 08:12:50 PM
Yes but what about the people that supported the Kickstarter before it decided to do this?

Are we meant to say 'Hey this isn't what we signed up for, give us a refund'?

Given my own personal history with Kickstarters? I'd say it is a crap-shoot as to what the product is that you would get. Which is precisely why I don't back Kickstarters anymore.

You are usually dealing with individuals or companies who have no established track record of products to back them up.

And don't get me started on established RPG companies that use Kickstarter to push all the risk on backers. Instead of taking an actual risk on a product themselves.

Quote from: SHARK on November 09, 2020, 08:43:32 PM
Greetings!

Brad! Can you go into some detailed commentary about what some of their previous books were like--and what you didn't like about them?

I love Conan stuff. The thought of companies making Conan into some SJW jello fest just grinds my teeth.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I'd rather not get into the weeds with the Modiphius books; my own personal issues with them might not match up to anyone else's. To be as succinct as possible, they added a narrative mechanic called "Doom points" or whatever it is that I greatly dislike. And the 2d20 system is sort of lame, in my opinion. It's one of those situations where they had a house system they shoehorned into every licensed property they had, regardless if it fit the genre or not. The books themselves are really nice and slick with a lot of information, so I use them for background material, but if they're going to start removing that stuff, WTF is the point of buying them? I dunno...maybe I will give a revised version of this post later, but honestly GURPS Conan is still the best actual resource for Conan gaming because it tries to stick to the books and only the books, just wish it was only REH stuff and none of the other authors.

Kickstarter backers did get access to the unaltered pdf of CtWanderer (my copy still has the Martial Arts tree named as such). Unfortunately, the printed version will only be of the altered variety.

I don't care for the 2d20 system, but I had been buying the books because they seemed like decent Conan reference material for other systems. I'll be damned if they get another penny of my money.

If I want to play Conan I would probably run Jason Vey's OD&D hack for it.

The only product from Modiphius I ever bought was a game called Monsters & Magic. Which is a decent enough OSR game.

But I do not agree with any established game company trying to fund an entire RPG line through Kickstarter. It shows to me that they have no faith in either the license or the customers. Not enough to assume any actual risk for the product line.

I feel the same way about Onyx Path. I think they are scumbags for pushing all the risk onto the backs of their customers.