Playing an RPG in sync with a Wargame

arminius · September 22, 2007, 09:23:10 PM

Could you elaborate on that last sentence? WB&RM was of course the previous title for Dragon Pass and the first game incarnation of Glorantha...so I'm not seeing the irony.:confused:

droog · September 22, 2007, 09:46:01 PM

No irony, it's just that it's a clear instance of wargaming leading to the hard stuff. I knew about WBRM before I knew about D&D.

arminius · September 23, 2007, 02:20:45 AM

Ah, got it. You were a fan of Glorantha because of WBRM, and that was what drew you to RQ.

On that note, there are a few other wargame-first settings that have made or could make fairly rich RPG settings. Surprisingly a Divine Right RPG/supplement hasn't been done commercially as far as I know.

Pierce Inverarity · September 23, 2007, 02:43:56 AM

Rabbit, that would be the shit.

The RPG group would play DR in advance of the actual RPG session. The outcome of the game would be the setting. IIRC, DR has named counters/heroes and what not. Lots of personalities to emerge during play. Also, it's Victory-Point-based, so we don't have a Sauron Wins/Midnight outcome every time.

What do the kids call this nowadays?

That's right: world burning.

Settembrini · September 23, 2007, 01:01:02 PM

I only read the OP so far.
I regularly do it, I´ll be back to elaborate.

Pierce Inverarity · September 23, 2007, 02:43:51 PM

On a general terminological note, I can distinguish three kinds of wargame/RPG relations so far:

1) wargames that complement RPGs at the strategic level (FFW/Traveller, etc.)

2) wargames as substitute for RPG combat rules at the tactical level (Mayday/Traveller, etc.)

3) (most interesting to me at this point) wargames that are, well, emergent or potential RPGs: those with a) named or otherwise individualized counters, b) campaign-length play. There are many of those, from Divine Right all the way to Squad Leader.

I'm looking for "interface" rules (or thoughts on same) for #3, meaning rules for having RPG play emerge from events in wargame play.

Does Dragon Pass have something like that?

Wil · September 23, 2007, 02:51:56 PM

Quote from: Pierce InverarityOn a general terminological note, I can distinguish three kinds of wargame/RPG relations so far:

1) wargames that complement RPGs at the strategic level (FFW/Traveller, etc.)

2) wargames as substitute for RPG combat rules at the tactical level (Mayday/Traveller, etc.)

3) (most interesting to me at this point) wargames that are, well, emergent or potential RPGs: those with a) named or otherwise individualized counters, b) campaign-length play. There are many of those, from Divine Right all the way to Squad Leader.

I'm looking for "interface" rules (or thoughts on same) for #3, meaning rules for having RPG play emerge from events in wargame play.

Does Dragon Pass have something like that?

Take a look a Victory By Any Means Games, I think it is similar to what you are looking for.

droog · September 23, 2007, 06:31:34 PM

Quote from: Pierce Inverarity3) (most interesting to me at this point) wargames that are, well, emergent or potential RPGs: those with a) named or otherwise individualized counters, b) campaign-length play. There are many of those, from Divine Right all the way to Squad Leader.

I'm looking for "interface" rules (or thoughts on same) for #3, meaning rules for having RPG play emerge from events in wargame play.

Does Dragon Pass have something like that?

No. There are no rules anywhere, and believe me, I've looked. Wyrm's Footprints has stats for some of the name-counter characters (Harrek, Gunda, Jar-Eel and the Emperor), but they are for Arduin Grimoire, of all things. I'm sure you'll find that as useful as I did. There's also an issue of Tales of the Reaching Moon that has some mini type rules with a bit of interface ('Warhamster'). And Elder Secrets has RQ3 stats for the Crimson Bat. None of that shit makes the slightest bit of sense when put together.

Ultimately the 'interface rules' are going to be you the GM. After a lot of exhaustive maths I eventually just squinted and made a guesstimate. We had one name-counter chr, and all the other PCs were subsumed into another counter.

arminius · September 23, 2007, 07:51:17 PM

As I've mentioned in PM, SPI published a Dragonquest interface of sorts for Albion: Land of Faerie, in the form of stats for the named counters, both persons and items IIRC, and notes on the setting. But it wasn't systematized as an interface for parallel interactive RPG/wargame play.

Pierce Inverarity · September 24, 2007, 02:09:23 AM

Next time I meet one of those distingushed persons who possess a copy of Albion I shall have to look at it closely.

Wil, you're right, I should look into VBAM--I was aware of it when it came out but never followed up on it.

Ian Absentia · September 24, 2007, 11:48:49 AM

Quote from: droogNo. There are no rules anywhere, and believe me, I've looked.

[...snip...]

Ultimately the 'interface rules' are going to be you the GM. After a lot of exhaustive maths I eventually just squinted and made a guesstimate. We had one name-counter chr, and all the other PCs were subsumed into another counter.

This may sound a little heretical 'round these parts, but do you suppose that HeroQuest could handle counter-to-counter combat at an abstract level? Extended contests play like a mini-game anyway, and with collective augments you could conceivably total up the stats for a handful of player characters onto their own counter.

!i!

James McMurray · September 24, 2007, 12:39:46 PM

It's a skirmish game, not a war game, but I've used Star Fleet Battles to resolve starship fights for Spacemaster.

For an epic level D&D game based on the Bloodstone Mines series I used a conversion of Battlesystem alongside D&D 3.0 adventures.

For my Exalted game the plan was to have another group playing a Mandate of Heaven game and using that as the backdrop for the world the PCs are traveling in. Unfortunately the MoH game died in its infancy.

droog · September 24, 2007, 07:36:36 PM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThis may sound a little heretical 'round these parts, but do you suppose that HeroQuest could handle counter-to-counter combat at an abstract level? Extended contests play like a mini-game anyway, and with collective augments you could conceivably total up the stats for a handful of player characters onto their own counter.

My guess is that you could probably do something along these lines, but that the counters might be superfluous. How about actually using counters for augments, like a stacking thing?