I've been reading up about Cold Steel Wardens (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/apklosky/cold-steel-wardens-roleplaying-in-the-iron-age-of), the "Iron Age" street-level supers game currently in Kickstarter. One aspect of the game that I find interesting is the fact that while it focuses on street-level superheroics, it's part of a larger supers setting -- in other words, you can run into Superman and Doctor Manhattan types, but they're NPCs.
What do you think about this approach? Do you like the focus, or do you think it might as well cover the whole spectrum of superheroic power levels?
(I should probably mention that the system is deliberately gritty to suit the street-level focus.)
I always like looking at other supers games, but I think it seems a bit too limited for my tastes. Using ICONS, I can have a group that is as varied as the Avengers or JLA in terms of power levels, and it still works. I could just do a lower-level setting in ICONS, if that's what I wanted. I'm not sure I'd be the target audience for this game.
Do the players enjoy playing Nightwing/Daredevil, or do they prefer to play Superman/Thor?
Most supers rpg's struggle to apply stats to heroes as unbalanced as Nightwing-Superman.
I have done a lot of supers games and I think it works best with 'low-mid' heroes.
One thing that sometimes happens that can annoy me is when you have a roster of heroes that are insanely powerful, you end up with a party of pc's that require uber crazy insane challenges. "Oh? is the very fabric of the universe in danger again?"
Oh, one other thing I should mention: the author tells me that if the GM were to give the players sufficient character creation points, they could create a Superman-level character. Character creation just isn't set up that way by default.
When my brother and I were teenagers, he collected comic books while I collected RPG stuff. I would read his comics and I loved the street-level superheros like Ironfist and Powerman. I am a sucker for the little guy, the underdog so I could identify more readily with level and type of superhero. A street-level superhero game could be the one finally lure me into the arena of superhero gaming. I'm going to keep an eye on this one. Thanks for the heads up, Dan! :)
Quote from: Drohem;608814When my brother and I were teenagers, he collected comic books while I collected RPG stuff. I would read his comics and I loved the street-level superheros like Ironfist and Powerman. I am a sucker for the little guy, the underdog so I could identify more readily with level and type of superhero. A street-level superhero game could be the one finally lure me into the arena of superhero gaming. I'm going to keep an eye on this one. Thanks for the heads up, Dan! :)
My pleasure, Drohem!
As it happens, Luke Cage is at the upper end of the PC-level "brick" scale, I'm told.
LOL! Well, that just shows my lack of knowledge concerning the superhero genre. :D I read those comics back in the late 1980s and it seemed to me that those type of guys were red-headed stepchildren compared to heroes like the X-Men, Captain America, Spiderman, etc.
Quote from: Drohem;608817LOL! Well, that just shows my lack of knowledge concerning the superhero genre. :D I read those comics back in the late 1980s and it seemed to me that those type of guys were red-headed stepchildren compared to heroes like the X-Men, Captain America, Spiderman, etc.
Just to be clear, I'm saying that Luke Cage is a
perfect Cold Steel Wardens character. :) The author's even cited him by name.
Quote from: Dan Davenport;608820Just to be clear, I'm saying that Luke Cage is a perfect Cold Steel Wardens character. :) The author's even cited him by name.
:o
D'oh! OK, move along, nothing to see here. :D
There's always the Stardust the Super-Wizard type of hero: a nigh- omnipotent, cosmic sadist who fights street-level crime.
Quote from: Drohem;608822:o D'oh!
OK, move along, nothing to see here. :D
No problem. I may not have been clear on that. :)
But anyway, yeah, Luke Cage's durability and strength are about the upper limit for CSW PCs, as I understand it. Just trying to give some idea of the PC power level.
I get the impression that Spidey would be pushing the limits, all things considered.
Quote from: OvaltinePatrol;608825There's always the Stardust the Super-Wizard type of hero: a nigh- omnipotent, cosmic sadist who fights street-level crime.
Stardust is Golden Age, though. I want to link the Stardust comic I read some day (was it at SA?) so that other people can appreciate just how bizarre the Golden Age could get.
Anyway, it's interesting to read about a whole RPG being designed specifically to emulate a given age of comicdom. I have to admit that it makes sense from a design perspective, because the Iron Age feels like such a major break from its predecessors (or at least, a major widening of the Silver-Bronze Age fault line) that it may justify using a distinct system.
I wonder if the same argument could be applied to the Golden Age?
Talk of Luke Cage reminded me of one of my all time favorite comic book brawls.
Powerman and Iron Fist vs the Hulk.
Those two guys tried their best, but the Hulk was soooooo far out of their league.
Moral of the story is don't HIT the Hulk. It will not go well.
Quote from: Bill;608843Talk of Luke Cage reminded me of one of my all time favorite comic book brawls.
Powerman and Iron Fist vs the Hulk.
Those two guys tried their best, but the Hulk was soooooo far out of their league.
Moral of the story is don't HIT the Hulk. It will not go well.
Are you talking about their fight with the completely mindless Hulk?
Either way, yeah, that's a fine example of outclassed heroes.
As I recall it was the green childlike hulk, but it's been a while.
Quote from: Bill;608797One thing that sometimes happens that can annoy me is when you have a roster of heroes that are insanely powerful, you end up with a party of pc's that require uber crazy insane challenges. "Oh? is the very fabric of the universe in danger again?"
CSW might be right up your alley, then, Bill.
In writing it, I really worked towards designing the game around investigation and moral dilemma, in addition to intense, visceral combat.
Spider-Man and Luke Cage are both right in the wheelhouse of
CSW. In fact, in my "10 Minute Character" video update, I included both in my random pot.
If you--or anyone else, for that matter--have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. If you're interested in backing us, now's a great time to join. Just today, I rolled out out a new "Bounty" system, which allows you to receive bonus rewards by convincing your friends/game-table buddies to back as well. Check our page (http://kck.st/V8ecTS), if you want more info!
See a street level super game appeals to me. But (And especially since you could encounter cosmic level NPCs) why is it any better than anything out there? I can run the same thing with FASERIP, M&M, and etc. Whats the grab that's gonna say "hey this is better/different/works better".
Ronin--it's a matter of focus.
The number of high-level NPCs in general in the default setting of CSW are incredibly few. The PCs are meant to be the city's 'defenders', even as the people loathe and resent them.
While you cerrtainly "can" build a uber-powered hero in CSW, doing so breaks all the normal character generation rules and really should only be done by the GM for the sake of story.
The thing that sets CSW apart, however, is the investigative nature. The mechanics are built to support street-level, gritty investigation a la Watchmen and the like. There's an in game economy built to represent heroic flaws and motivation, while allowing for narrative control on behalf of the players. That's something that no other superheroes game really does; nor can they do, as they're playing to the proverbial middle. It wouldn't fit for a "cosmic" level game. But here, in a street-level game, it does.
Bill--Check out the KS page. I think it'll be right up your alley. Luke Cage and Spidey are both right in CSW's wheelhouse; I even use both as samples in my "10 minute character generation" video.
So something I can and have done with M&M? (And I suppose FASERIP then) Oh and by the way Watchmen is a bad example of "street", and or gritty. I can draw parallels and similarities between them and the Avengers, JLA, and what ever.
I have this game: Heroes Unlimited by Palladium Books. :p
Quote from: Novastar;609102I have this game: Heroes Unlimited by Palladium Books. :p
Or as I like to call it, Heroes Limited.
JG
Quote from: APKlosky;608880CSW might be right up your alley, then, Bill.
In writing it, I really worked towards designing the game around investigation and moral dilemma, in addition to intense, visceral combat.
Spider-Man and Luke Cage are both right in the wheelhouse of CSW. In fact, in my "10 Minute Character" video update, I included both in my random pot.
If you--or anyone else, for that matter--have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. If you're interested in backing us, now's a great time to join. Just today, I rolled out out a new "Bounty" system, which allows you to receive bonus rewards by convincing your friends/game-table buddies to back as well. Check our page (http://kck.st/V8ecTS), if you want more info!
I wuill check it out;
I am always scouting out supers games.
Quote from: James Gillen;609299Or as I like to call it, Heroes Limited.
JG
That may be a plus. Thor is a favorite character in marvel of mine, but I would not want to play a character that powerful.
His only weakness seems to be "Willing to brawl with the Hulk without his hammer to prove how mighty he really is"
Fighting the Hulk never goes well, even if you win, you've leveled everything in a 5-mile radius. :D
Quote from: CRKrueger;609317Fighting the Hulk never goes well, even if you win, you've leveled everything in a 5-mile radius. :D
Especially true with Thor Vs Hulk. You don't want to be near that.
I've always liked the idea of the local superhero.
Someone who's not necessarily the biggest or baddest, just what they need to be to protect the small town or city they live in.
Pretty much all of my superhero fiction is written around guys like that these days, more "masked man" pulp/noir stuff than spandex clad superbeing.
Quote from: James Gillen;609299Or as I like to call it, Heroes Limited.
JG
No argument there; it doesn't do high-power well AT ALL, even with the inclusion of the "Mega-Hero".
But if you're looking for Street-level Heroes, that it does do well.
Don't get me wrong when I say this--Heroes Unlimited was the first RPG that I'd ever played, and it's still a nostalgic favorite.
The rules system for HU was a train-wreck, and my frustrations in running it led directly to me writing CSW. It occured to my players at one point (while I ran the game that inspired me to write CSW), that while there were 4-5 skills governing radio usage in Heroes Unlimited, there was no skill for Perception, Knowledge: History, and many others.
Given that, I wanted to provide a game that really focused on investigation and moral dilemma, in addition to the dangerous, gritty combat. But, I wanted to do it in a way that was internally consistent and easy to understand as a system. A unified dice mechanic, powers that fit the genre, and a "Hero Pool" mechanic that allows for an established economy for narrative control go a long way towards making CSW a better game than HU.
Quote from: Dan Davenport;608792I've been reading up about Cold Steel Wardens (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/apklosky/cold-steel-wardens-roleplaying-in-the-iron-age-of), the "Iron Age" street-level supers game currently in Kickstarter. One aspect of the game that I find interesting is the fact that while it focuses on street-level superheroics, it's part of a larger supers setting -- in other words, you can run into Superman and Doctor Manhattan types, but they're NPCs.
I'm not sure how to take this, I've nothing against street level supers. It may be brilliant to do them as a single game for just those kinds of heroes. However, it seems a bit like a limited game compared to other superhero games, which can do many scales and hero types.
Of course I'm not a fan of the Iron Age, or its tropes, so I'm not likely one of the people this game is aimed at. Still, I prefer RPG's where the PC's are the shapers of the world, even if its only their small part of it, not seemingly second stringers.
A big difference is all in how you run it, what sensation you give the whole thing.
What I mean is, there's a big difference between low-powered heroes in the sense of the bat-family in Gotham, and on the other hand, say, Justice League Detroit or the Justice League International for that matter.
The Gotham-crew are kick ass. The others are thought of as second-stringers and losers. Playing the former in a campaign can be awesome; playing the latter can be.. well, as lame as their respective comics were.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;609702A big difference is all in how you run it, what sensation you give the whole thing.
What I mean is, there's a big difference between low-powered heroes in the sense of the bat-family in Gotham, and on the other hand, say, Justice League Detroit or the Justice League International for that matter.
The Gotham-crew are kick ass. The others are thought of as second-stringers and losers. Playing the former in a campaign can be awesome; playing the latter can be.. well, as lame as their respective comics were.
RPGPundit
CSW is very much an emulation of the former. "The Dark Knight Returns" was a major thematic influence, and both Dixon and Simone's runs on "Birds of Prey" are favorites in our house...it doesn't hurt that my wife cosplays as Black Canary and Huntress, among others.
In writing CSW, I wanted a game that really focused on that sort of dynamic. The emphasis being much less on "kewl powarz!" and more on the inter-character dynamic, their investigations, and their personal successes and triumphs. And, you know...no one ever complained about being able to beat the snot out of some ninjas. Everyone likes fighting ninjas. :D
Sounds like the setup for a good Mystery Men type of game.
Pete
Quote from: APKlosky;609752CSW is very much an emulation of the former. "The Dark Knight Returns" was a major thematic influence, and both Dixon and Simone's runs on "Birds of Prey" are favorites in our house...it doesn't hurt that my wife cosplays as Black Canary and Huntress, among others.
In writing CSW, I wanted a game that really focused on that sort of dynamic. The emphasis being much less on "kewl powarz!" and more on the inter-character dynamic, their investigations, and their personal successes and triumphs. And, you know...no one ever complained about being able to beat the snot out of some ninjas. Everyone likes fighting ninjas. :D
Plenty of games do not focus on kewl powers already--what will you do to make yours impressive/interesting?
Quote from: APKlosky;609752it doesn't hurt that my wife cosplays as Black Canary and Huntress, among others.
Pics or it didn't happen.
Quote from: Silverlion;609855Plenty of games do the focus not on kewl powers already--what will you do to make yours impressive/interesting?
How about a skill system that emphasizes investigation and social interaction over combat--right now, there are 10 such skills in the game, compared to 3 combat skills, and an entire chapter for the GM on how to structure and pace investigations, particularly in a superpowered universe.
How about a system in which players, when stumped, can purchase clues or take narrative control of NPCs via a central dice pool...which gets refreshed when their PCs are tempted by or succumb to their flaws or challenge their personal beliefs.
How about a setting that's pretty much absent of GM-PCs, where the players are able to truly make their mark on the city, for good or for ill.
Oh, and regarding "Pics or it didn't happen"--keep your eyes peeled on the Christmas Day video update. ;)
Quote from: APKlosky;609863How about a skill system that emphasizes investigation and social interaction over combat--right now, there are 10 such skills in the game, compared to 3 combat skills, and an entire chapter for the GM on how to structure and pace investigations, particularly in a superpowered universe.
How about a system in which players, when stumped, can purchase clues or take narrative control of NPCs via a central dice pool...which gets refreshed when their PCs are tempted by or succumb to their flaws or challenge their personal beliefs.
How about a setting that's pretty much absent of GM-PCs, where the players are able to truly make their mark on the city, for good or for ill.
Cool, sounds like you are doing a good job.
Quote from: APKlosky;609863How about a system in which players, when stumped, can purchase clues or take narrative control of NPCs via a central dice pool...which gets refreshed when their PCs are tempted by or succumb to their flaws or challenge their personal beliefs.
This bit puts me right off it. Not my taste as player or GM.
Quote from: Simlasa;609881This bit puts me right off it. Not my taste as player or GM.
Yep.
Quote from: pspahn;609789Sounds like the setup for a good Mystery Men type of game.
Pete
"You must learn to use all your limbs, like the octopus playing the drums."
Quote from: Silverlion;609869Cool, sounds like you are doing a good job.
Thanks--that's appreciated.
I realize that not everyone likes darker storylines in their supers, and that's fine. But it's hard to deny their popularity when Christopher Nolan's "The Dark Knight" trilogy is making billions at the box office, and is based on "The Long Halloween" and "No Man's Land".
I have nothing against M&M or Champions--they're both great games, created by legends of the industry. But they're fundamentally catch-all games, meant to replicate everything from Cosmic-level space-faring down to street-level gangers. To me, that's a drawback. While you
can play an Iron Age game in those systems, there's nothing specific about their mechanics or default settings that emphasize the themes of the sub-genre.
It's sort of like trying to screw a Phillips head screw with a flat-head screwdriver. Yes, it'll work, but it'll take longer and you'll have to turn it on edge to do it properly. And, at some point, you have to ask why someone hasn't handed you a Phillips-head yet. CSW is your Phillips...
Yeah I have to admit that I'm more inclined to the level of things as its done in ICONS. Not sure I'd have much use for a game that was exclusively street-level.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;610262Yeah I have to admit that I'm more inclined to the level of things as its done in ICONS. Not sure I'd have much use for a game that was exclusively street-level.
RPGPundit
Its an issue for me as well, as we often see "Street level" heroes pulling their weight against the big boys when needed. (Daredevil, Nightwing.) I'm not sure we can consider Batman Street level--ever he's sort of an ubersuper (depending on writer) who slums to street level. Still, I think he has a handle on it in his descriptions so far, so i can but hope he'll turn out gold rather than another Heroes Unlimited, or Guardians, or Heroes and Heroines, or...
Batman is often street-level when he's being just Batman in gotham with the bat-clan. As soon as he hangs around with the Justice League, he becomes something else.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;610692Batman is often street-level when he's being just Batman in gotham with the bat-clan. As soon as he hangs around with the Justice League, he becomes something else.
RPGPundit
That's very true. He's basically played up (or plays up, I suppose you could say) to the level of competition. Or at least, that's how it's portrayed. JLA Bats and regular Bats are portrayed at two different levels.
Quote from: The Butcher;608837Stardust is Golden Age, though. I want to link the Stardust comic I read some day (was it at SA?) so that other people can appreciate just how bizarre the Golden Age could get.
Anyway, it's interesting to read about a whole RPG being designed specifically to emulate a given age of comicdom. I have to admit that it makes sense from a design perspective, because the Iron Age feels like such a major break from its predecessors (or at least, a major widening of the Silver-Bronze Age fault line) that it may justify using a distinct system.
I wonder if the same argument could be applied to the Golden Age?
Happy to be of service!
Stardust the Super Wizard vs The 5th Column. (http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupidcovers/stupidcomics29.html)
Quote from: RPGPundit;610262Yeah I have to admit that I'm more inclined to the level of things as its done in ICONS. Not sure I'd have much use for a game that was exclusively street-level.
RPGPundit
But a game which specifically addresses this level of superhero comics is a worthy effort. Using more conventional superhero games might not work as well for street level campaigns because more mainstream supers games have different physics and genre assumptions.
Quote from: RPGPundit;610692Batman is often street-level when he's being just Batman in gotham with the bat-clan. As soon as he hangs around with the Justice League, he becomes something else.
RPGPundit
Just as Superman is frequently depicted as nigh-invulnerable in his solo titles, but in the Justice League (especially the animated series) he gets beaten up on a 50-50 basis.
JG
Quote from: James Gillen;610791Just as Superman is frequently depicted as nigh-invulnerable in his solo titles, but in the Justice League (especially the animated series) he gets beaten up on a 50-50 basis.
JG
People always suck at writing Superman, to be fair he is NIGH-invulnerable to most Earthly scale things, but they often forget that when writing things (and the fact that of course there are Unearthly things which CAN be a threat easily.)
The Byrne 80s reboot dragged Superman out of the cosmos 'asteroid juggling' adventures he used to have and ditched much of the silliness that had taken over Supermans' stories. Shame it didn't last, though whilst I like Byrnes art I will concede that all his characters have square jaws and lines for mouths (even the women) and mostly look the same with a different wig on. Plus he treats the women in comics shabbily (at best) if I recall. He did a great job with the Man of Steel mini series and reboot though.
By depowering Superman he could (and did) get knocked about by military grade weaponry and it brought him nearer the tops of buildings, if not quite down to street level.
With regards the grim/gritty/iron age game I find Supers games are much more interesting when you have a range of adventures available. Most of the Justice League and Avengers aren't interested in Street Level crime - it's just not worth their effort. Can you imagine Thor or Iron Man chasing a purse snatcher? Maybe in the early (60s) days, but busting drug dealers, rescuing kidnapped people and the like aren't the things that make them get out of bed in the morning, alien invasions are.
Anyway, I backed it, because I like Supers games, but it's got a tough job on to make the target over the xmas period. People have other things on their mind, usually...
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;610717Happy to be of service!
Stardust the Super Wizard vs The 5th Column. (http://www.misterkitty.org/extras/stupidcovers/stupidcomics29.html)
Oh yeah, I'd seen that one before. Needless to say, that's not one Golden Age character appearing in my campaign.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;610718But a game which specifically addresses this level of superhero comics is a worthy effort. Using more conventional superhero games might not work as well for street level campaigns because more mainstream supers games have different physics and genre assumptions.
I agree that a game specifically designed to do "unpowered mystery men plus very-low power level supers" is potentially a useful endeavour.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;610718But a game which specifically addresses this level of superhero comics is a worthy effort. Using more conventional superhero games might not work as well for street level campaigns because more mainstream supers games have different physics and genre assumptions.
That's the reason I wrote it, chief. While you
can run an Iron Age game in any number of other supers games, the investigative mechanics, the focus on no-powered and low-powered heroes, and the setting elements won't be present.
It's like hammering in a nail with the side of a wrench. Yes, you can do it. Yes you can adjust your setting and your default character-building and everything that goes with it....but why not just use the tool that's meant for the job?
The holiday season has slowed us up, certainly, but it was a concern that we went into with our eyes open. We've watched successes in this time-frame--FATE Core, anyone?--but I'm really hoping we get a solid post-Christmas surge to put us over our goal.
Quote from: RPGPundit;610992Oh yeah, I'd seen that one before. Needless to say, that's not one Golden Age character appearing in my campaign.
RPGPundit
GM: "The Eviscerator sends his entire battalion of cyberzombie soldiers to attack the city."
Player: "I turn all of them into marmosets."
I don't think most GMs would allow that either.
JG
Yeah, but its a really interesting example of how they were still trying to figure it all out back then, this whole concept of the comic-book superhero.
RPGPundit
Quote from: CRKrueger;609857Pics or it didn't happen.
Well, brother--you asked for pics, and I did you one better.
Check out our latest video update (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/apklosky/cold-steel-wardens-roleplaying-in-the-iron-age-of) and make sure you stay till the end. :D
She also does Huntress and Speedy (Mia Dearden), for the record.
More seriously, though, we have one more week to go, guys, and it's going to be a sprint to the finish. If you're interested, if you'd like to donate, we need you now more than ever.
Don't forget that you can also 'claim bounty' on your friends. Convince one person to pledge, and you get a free set of Hero Pool Tokens. Convince 3 (now reduced from five!) to donate, and I bump your entire reward tier by one, with no additional cost to you!
Thanks again, and have a great holiday!
You're a good sport, you got yourself a backer. :D Happy Holidays.
That's putting your money where your mouth is!
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;611703That's putting your money where your mouth is!
RPGPundit
Hey, she offered! Who am I to turn down some shameless marketing?
Quote from: APKlosky;611735Hey, she offered! Who am I to turn down some shameless marketing?
Indeed! That's capitalism in action!
RPGPundit
Despite some reservations I have with the game (ie high powered heroes are only npcs), I decided to pledge anyway. Sadly, looks like this isn't going to make its funding, though I hope to be proven wrong
Quote from: urbwar;612684Despite some reservations I have with the game (ie high powered heroes are only npcs), I decided to pledge anyway. Sadly, looks like this isn't going to make its funding, though I hope to be proven wrong
Much obliged, man. It's really appreciated.
I'm hoping for a push here in our final days...spread the word, if you can. And, don't forget to claim bounty on any friends who pledge as well!
Quote from: APKlosky;612763Much obliged, man. It's really appreciated.
I'm hoping for a push here in our final days...spread the word, if you can. And, don't forget to claim bounty on any friends who pledge as well!
Sadly, I can't, even if it isn't my think I'd like to get it created but as a game writer as well, I'm poor :D
We did it!
With 11 hours to go, we met our primary funding goal!
That said, there's still about 8 hours left to jump on for Cold Steel Wardens!
We've merged the $5,000 and $6,000 stretch goals, as well! If we hit $5k by midnight tonight, I toss in the free adventure (with pre-generated characters and quick-start rules) and the GM screen inserts.
Thanks for all your support!
Congratulations! I posted on the Cape and Cowl Community (Google+) to help, and I'm so glad you got it.
If you'd like to come talk about the process of creating a superhero RPG you'd be welcome to..
Congrats! Really happy for you. :)
Well done! Now don't turn into one of those "kickstarter project fucks up" threads we've been getting around here lately.
RPGpundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;613779Well done! Now don't turn into one of those "kickstarter project fucks up" threads we've been getting around here lately.
RPGpundit
That's the plan, chief. We've got a lot of work to do, but I aim to ensure that we stay on schedule with minimal delays.
Thanks for all the support, guys!
Quote from: APKlosky;613907That's the plan, chief. We've got a lot of work to do, but I aim to ensure that we stay on schedule with minimal delays.
Thanks for all the support, guys!
Don't be a stranger around here, either, just because your KS funded. We have some pretty awesome supers discussions, and another opinion is welcome!
Quote from: Zachary The First;613928Don't be a stranger around here, either, just because your KS funded. We have some pretty awesome supers discussions, and another opinion is welcome!
Absolutely true.
I plan on sticking around! I've seen some great discussions here already... :D
Congrats!
Congrats, and looking forward to seeing if you can make a True Believer out of me yet! ;)
I'm glad to say I was proven wrong that this wouldn't meet it's funding!
Glad to hear you've found the place interesting and rewarding enough to stick around!
RPGPundit
Well done on hitting the target! Now the even harder work begins - to get the book out and to such a standard that it establishes the game in a crowded genre (supers games, there are loads to choose from) ... good luck with that :)
Quote from: APN;614483Well done on hitting the target! Now the even harder work begins - to get the book out and to such a standard that it establishes the game in a crowded genre (supers games, there are loads to choose from) ... good luck with that :)
Whoo...yes. Totally agreed.
The amount of work ahead is huge, but it's not insurmountable, and I have a great and eager support team--my editors and the artists I'm working with.
I don't think CSW is going to have as difficult a time being noticed, though. There really isn't a preponderance of games that cater directly to darker heroic storylines and even the generic supers systems--M&M, Champions, etc.--tend to be more focused on action-oriented team-ups a la Avengers, rather than the street-level Heroes for Hire, if you will.
That said, I'm not willing to drop my standards in any respect. I want to put out a great-looking, great-playing game that I'm proud to have my name on.
Necroing some old threads on this game to find out how it's coming along. I see PDFs and KS surveys have been sent out to backers. Any estimate as to when the print version will be available to non-backers?
Quote from: 3rik;754499Necroing some old threads on this game to find out how it's coming along. I see PDFs and KS surveys have been sent out to backers. Any estimate as to when the print version will be available to non-backers?
It's in the hands of Chronicle City, so much like Cubicle 7, it's a crap shoot as to when it will come out in print
Quote from: urbwar;755009It's in the hands of Chronicle City, so much like Cubicle 7, it's a crap shoot as to when it will come out in print
Oh, did they inherit that from C7?
Quote from: RPGPundit;755432Oh, did they inherit that from C7?
It seems that way. The same thing happened with the rpg Invulnerable. PDF is out, but no print version yet. Why they pick up titles to release when they have ones still waiting to be printed is ridiculous.
Quote from: urbwar;755464It seems that way. The same thing happened with the rpg Invulnerable. PDF is out, but no print version yet. Why they pick up titles to release when they have ones still waiting to be printed is ridiculous.
I'm not sure if it isn't something about the British Gamer Culture at this point?
Anyways, they still don't beat out Palladium for lateness...
Quote from: RPGPundit;756176I'm not sure if it isn't something about the British Gamer Culture at this point?
Possibly. What's funny is some of the authors mention Angus being ill, but as we're FB friends, I saw posts form him about being on vacation in the US either before or after some convention. Found that somewhat amusing
Quote from: RPGPundit;756176Anyways, they still don't beat out Palladium for lateness...
Also Adamant Entertainment. The King and Queen of lateness it seems
Quote from: urbwar;756613Possibly. What's funny is some of the authors mention Angus being ill, but as we're FB friends, I saw posts form him about being on vacation in the US either before or after some convention. Found that somewhat amusing.
From what I read, the con + vacation came *after* him being ill. Reservations etc. had already been made and cancellation was apparently not a viable option. So it's not like Angus was "calling in sick" while having a vacation.
Fact remains that both Cubicle 7 and Chronicle City give the impression that they have been biting off way more than they can chew. Cubicle 7 seems to have been working on limiting their focus to a more manageable number of game lines and publishers, though. Perhaps Chronicle City should consider doing the same.
Quote from: 3rik;756642From what I read, the con + vacation came *after* him being ill. Reservations etc. had already been made and cancellation was apparently not a viable option. So it's not like Angus was "calling in sick" while having a vacation.
Another rpg author I know who is working with them was being told he was sick at the same time Angus was posting vacation picks. So someone at CC was still peddling the story that he was ill at the time.
Quote from: 3rik;756642Fact remains that both Cubicle 7 and Chronicle City give the impression that they have been biting off way more than they can chew. Cubicle 7 seems to have been working on limiting their focus to a more manageable number of game lines and publishers, though. Perhaps Chronicle City should consider doing the same.
Considering they recently announced a new edition of Dark Harvest, I'm doubtful they're going to. They really need to though, because they're developing a really bad reputation just from the W20 debacle as is, and are going to hurt games like CSW and Invulnerable not only from delaying their release, but via association.
I hadn't been paying so much attention to Chronicle City, but C7 in its heyday was apparently announcing new projects every other week, as they got further and further behind on their work.
I mean, if I recall, they said that for the 50th anniversary of Doctor Who they'd be doing one sourcebook a month on each doctor; I think that by the time the anniversary date had hit, they were like on number 3 or something.
Quote from: RPGPundit;757237I hadn't been paying so much attention to Chronicle City, but C7 in its heyday was apparently announcing new projects every other week, as they got further and further behind on their work.
I mean, if I recall, they said that for the 50th anniversary of Doctor Who they'd be doing one sourcebook a month on each doctor; I think that by the time the anniversary date had hit, they were like on number 3 or something.
Definitely agree that early days at c7 had some big issues. Products were being announced and made available for preorder way before there was any chance of fulfilling them. Since the end of 2011 we've only opened preorders when a book goes to print, which is definitely a big step forward. (There's been one exception to that - The Doctor Who Limited Edition, since we needed to check demand before it went to press in order to finalise the exact spec)
One slight correction - we said we were hoping to get a Doctor sourcebook out every *other* month. Just over a year since The First Doctor Sourcebook came out The Sixth Doctor Sourcebook is waiting the final green light to go out to subscribers in PDF. We have certainly had some delays on print, largely necessitated by the need to change printer to ensure consistent quality. But that has also meant we have a solid queue of completed work ready to go.
Cubicle 7 certainly hasn't been free from delays in the last couple of years, but with the shift in focus away from print partnerships, which we've slowly and quietly wound down over the last couple of years, things are definitely improving year on year. Licensed games always come with delay, simply the nature of the beast, and we're still a small company so it's hard for us to soak those delays with a deferred release schedule, but we doubled releases of "home grown" c7 material in 2012 and again in 2013, so we're moving in the right direction. There's still plenty to achieve and improve on.
I'm really excited to see the fruits of bringing in Andrew Kenrick, former editor of White Dwarf, start to appear this summer. He's doing great work.
Quote from: urbwar;756899Another rpg author I know who is working with them was being told he was sick at the same time Angus was posting vacation picks. So someone at CC was still peddling the story that he was ill at the time.
I´m not in on the details here so I´ll refrain from any further commentary.
Quote from: urbwar;756899(...) they're developing a really bad reputation just from the W20 debacle as is, and are going to hurt games like CSW and Invulnerable not only from delaying their release, but via association.
Recently Rogue Games announced that they are no longer going to work with Chronicle City and instead teamed up with Studio 2. Richard referred to it as "a hurdle cleared". Either the problem is starting to solve itself or Chronicle has started cleaning up its act.
Quote from: 3rik;757338I´m not in on the details here so I´ll refrain from any further commentary.
At least my friend's game is now out in pdf, so that's something. Still took forever, and the print isn't out. CSW is out in pdf (well on the CC site; it's not on RPGNow as of yet) and the print preorder is up. That's better than nothing.
Quote from: 3rik;757338Recently Rogue Games announced that they are no longer going to work with Chronicle City and instead teamed up with Studio 2. Richard referred to it as "a hurdle cleared". Either the problem is starting to solve itself or Chronicle has started cleaning up its act.
I didn't even realize Rogue used CC. Everytime I ordered stuff, it was from Richard directly (which is why I likely missed that)
I do think they're trying to clean up, but again, the damage is all ready done. It's going to take some time to heal those wounds with customers. At least they seem to have taken care of most of the outstanding W20 orders for Europe, and Angus made it clear on rpg.net that the fault solely lies with him, and not Onyx Path, so I give him props for that.
I guess time will tell if they've gotten on the right track again. I'll know for sure once I have a copy of CSW in my hands
Quote from: urbwar;757445I didn't even realize Rogue used CC. Everytime I ordered stuff, it was from Richard directly (which is why I likely missed that)
Well, the intent was for CC to start distributing all the Rogue Games titles. It had been a while already since Rogue Games announced that.
Quote from: 3rik;757499Well, the intent was for CC to start distributing all the Rogue Games titles. It had been a while already since Rogue Games announced that.
Gotcha. I don't really follow Rogue games much, as I was just interested in Shadow, Sword & Spell. I totally missed that they even planned on working with CC.
But to get back on track; anyone pick this up yet? I've only skimmed my ks copy, but I like what I see. Need to set aside time to delve into it more
Quote from: urbwar;757759Gotcha. I don't really follow Rogue games much, as I was just interested in Shadow, Sword & Spell. I totally missed that they even planned on working with CC.
But to get back on track; anyone pick this up yet? I've only skimmed my ks copy, but I like what I see. Need to set aside time to delve into it more
Reading the beta material from the KS updates atm. Obviously it's a raw document but I like what I am reading so far and plan to pick up a print copy.
Not sure I'm equally keen on the artwork previews on the Facebook page, to be honest. There's quite a number of "anatomically compromised" figures, especially the ones by Douthitt. It won't withhold me from purchasing the book, though.
Quote from: Hodgson;757325Definitely agree that early days at c7 had some big issues. Products were being announced and made available for preorder way before there was any chance of fulfilling them. Since the end of 2011 we've only opened preorders when a book goes to print, which is definitely a big step forward. (There's been one exception to that - The Doctor Who Limited Edition, since we needed to check demand before it went to press in order to finalise the exact spec)
One slight correction - we said we were hoping to get a Doctor sourcebook out every *other* month. Just over a year since The First Doctor Sourcebook came out The Sixth Doctor Sourcebook is waiting the final green light to go out to subscribers in PDF. We have certainly had some delays on print, largely necessitated by the need to change printer to ensure consistent quality. But that has also meant we have a solid queue of completed work ready to go.
Cubicle 7 certainly hasn't been free from delays in the last couple of years, but with the shift in focus away from print partnerships, which we've slowly and quietly wound down over the last couple of years, things are definitely improving year on year. Licensed games always come with delay, simply the nature of the beast, and we're still a small company so it's hard for us to soak those delays with a deferred release schedule, but we doubled releases of "home grown" c7 material in 2012 and again in 2013, so we're moving in the right direction. There's still plenty to achieve and improve on.
I'm really excited to see the fruits of bringing in Andrew Kenrick, former editor of White Dwarf, start to appear this summer. He's doing great work.
Ok, well, I stand corrected on the Doctor Who sourcebooks. I'm glad to hear you're trying to slow down a bit to focus on reliability. Quality has never been a problem for C7, they put out great stuff, but I always thought it was needlessly silly to be constantly late on delivering stuff.
Thanks for sharing with us!
RPGPundit
Good news, guys!
CSW went live on the Chronicle City webstore (http://shop.chroniclecity.co.uk/epages/es146440.sf/secfec3dd474b/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es146440/Categories/Cold_Steel_Wardens)last Tuesday, just in time for Origins. If you're interested or have questions, by all means, ask me anything!
Quote from: APKlosky;758878Good news, guys!
CSW went live on the Chronicle City webstore (http://shop.chroniclecity.co.uk/epages/es146440.sf/secfec3dd474b/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es146440/Categories/Cold_Steel_Wardens)last Tuesday, just in time for Origins. If you're interested or have questions, by all means, ask me anything!
Do you think they'll have the books printed soon?
Quote from: urbwar;758965Do you think they'll have the books printed soon?
I've been told that I'll have print copies in hand by mid to late July, so that I can send out to KS backers before GenCon, with print available on or before the con itself.
I'm definitely hoping that's the case!
Quote from: APKlosky;759007I've been told that I'll have print copies in hand by mid to late July, so that I can send out to KS backers before GenCon, with print available on or before the con itself.
I'm definitely hoping that's the case!
I hope so too. I've been eagerly awaiting my print copy for some time now