Greetings!

Yes, I know that Coffee Shops included as locations in adventure books or modules has gained a very *mixed* reputation in response--primarily from WOTC's books where they push this kind of "Woke Starbuck's" and adventuring as a *Barista*. I also know WOTC has presented this kind of stuff in online articles and what have you. It has not been well-received, for certain.

However, WOTC's adventures in Woke Baristas and somehow making the game's adventure center around the Players working as *Baristas*, as stupid and WTF?-moment that is, in my campaign, long before WOTC began embracing stupidity, I have used coffee shops, very extensively.

In my campaign, Coffee shops are very popular, and frequently encountered. I also routinely and regularly include Tobacco shops, and cigar shops.

I have found that having coffee shops and tobacco shops, for example, are two very popular merchants to have, as well as places that Players regularly enjoy visiting. Players also enjoy encountering new coffee shops, and new tobacco shops as well.

My coffee shops typically offer a variety of coffee blends and roasts, which are always popular. Coffee shops also provide avenues from which commerce can be further developed within the campaign. From this, even new adventures can be created. Such adventures are definitely low-key and very much grounded in realism, but with a little bit of work and creativity, such adventures can have the *Gonzo Factor* dialed up, as needed.

The same thing goes for Tobacco shops, and cigar shops. These kinds of places generally attract a particular kind of clients and patronage, and people just behave and think differently, than say, in a Tavern, dive bar, or even a fancy nightclub or dance hall.

I have one Player that regularly buys particular cigars from one cigar shop, and also seeks out especially favoured Pipe Tobacco, for smoking in his pipe. Two other Players, women, love seeking out favourite cigarette brands.

It may be surprising to some, but the small details of people buying and drinking coffee, and or buying and smoking, whether cigars, tobacco pipes, or cigarettes, has also enhanced immersion in the campaign, as well as roleplaying.

I highly recommend using Coffee shops and Tobacco shops in your campaigns!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Makes sense and it's a pretty good idea. Dumb barista adventures aside, I think it's a clever idea since stuff like coffee and tobacco tend to be social products. Drinking coffee and smoking tobacco with others is a good way for players to get rumors, jobs, and allies. In fact, it sounds like an interesting way to bypass just using a tavern.

Interestingly, in real life I know a few hundred years ago coffee shops in Germany were gathering places for people to meet and discuss ideas and the news. Makes sense a wizard might go there to swap ideas with fellow magic-users. Then I recall the "GAZ 02: Emirates of Ylaruam" book described how fellow Ylaruam citizens often use coffee as a way to show wealth and to spruce up the cultural water-exchanging ceremonies. Lot of potential for an interesting use of coffee.

From my generally vague knowledge of history, teas, spices, coffees, and tobacco seem to play generally large (though understated) roles in human society and development.

You need look no further than the Silk Road, or all the memes about the British empire, in any sort of authentic setting I come to expect this sort of thing.

I've been trying to find a magical use for teas, spices and coffees, give some sort of subtle or even meta-jokish-reason wizards are always smoking something.

Quote from: 1stLevelWizard on January 10, 2024, 08:59:31 PM
Makes sense and it's a pretty good idea. Dumb barista adventures aside, I think it's a clever idea since stuff like coffee and tobacco tend to be social products. Drinking coffee and smoking tobacco with others is a good way for players to get rumors, jobs, and allies. In fact, it sounds like an interesting way to bypass just using a tavern.

Interestingly, in real life I know a few hundred years ago coffee shops in Germany were gathering places for people to meet and discuss ideas and the news. Makes sense a wizard might go there to swap ideas with fellow magic-users. Then I recall the "GAZ 02: Emirates of Ylaruam" book described how fellow Ylaruam citizens often use coffee as a way to show wealth and to spruce up the cultural water-exchanging ceremonies. Lot of potential for an interesting use of coffee.

Greetings!

Hello, 1stLevelWizard! Yes, using Coffee and Tobacco shops in a campaign has always been fun for me.

I have used such elements to get the Players involved with quests of delivering coffee to another town, as well as tobacco. Presenting special gifts to various nobles at court gatherings, and the like. Also, being paid to set up and handle a coffee shop or a tobacco shop at a large, seasonal faire or celebration. That can easily lead into other adventures, on the side as well. Later on, because of their skill and reputation, and the contacts they had made in the tobacco-merchant industry, an important nobleman heading up a royal investigation of a different tobacco merchant opened up a series of adventures that were great! A dark and evil cult was using alchemically-tainted tobacco to spread a dangerous disease throughout the local community, and beyond. This same cult was using a particular coffee shop as a front to create groups of crazed cultists and terrorists that threatened all of society.

Players have gained fine gifts of excellent cigars, jars of elite coffee, enchanted Tobacco Pipes, and even enchanted cigars given to them from an Elf Wizard as a quest reward. Daring missions, important henchmen and allies, have all been met and recruited while the party visited coffee shops, and tobacco shops. Like, constantly. *Laughing*

Good stuff!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Socratic-DM on January 10, 2024, 09:06:08 PM
From my generally vague knowledge of history, teas, spices, coffees, and tobacco seem to play generally large (though understated) roles in human society and development.

You need look no further than the Silk Road, or all the memes about the British empire, in any sort of authentic setting I come to expect this sort of thing.

I've been trying to find a magical use for teas, spices and coffees, give some sort of subtle or even meta-jokish-reason wizards are always smoking something.

Greetings!

Indeed, Socratic-DM! Very true!

In my Thandor Campaign, I have normal tobacco smoking provides magic-using characters with a +25% Bonus to reading, studying, and otherwise memorizing or learning knowledge and lore from books or scrolls. Drinking normal Coffee provides a +2 Bonus to Social rolls for two hours duration following or while drinking coffee. People that drink coffee are just socially more "with it" and on-point. Magical coffee and magical tobacco provides greater bonuses. Smoking tobacco also has beneficial medicinal effects, enhancing a Character's healing rate and recovery rates for wounds or damage suffered.

These dynamics of course make drinking coffee and smoking tobacco hugely popular, virtually everywhere in Thandor. Many Clerics and Wizards of all kinds, drink coffee and smoke tobacco. Of course, drinking coffee and smoking tobacco is enormously popular throughout the rest of society as well.

Of course, in our own real world, Coffee has been proven to fight cancer, is loaded with anti-oxidants, and provides numerous health benefits. Likewise, smoking tobacco has some pain-killing properties, and research proved that students that smoked an hour before taking exams, scored a minimum of 10% higher in their grades than non-smoking students. Furthermore, smoking tobacco also is known to enhance mental sharpness, function, and alertness.

My players love finding enchanted coffee, and enchanted tobacco during their adventures!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Greetings!

I have also found that having enchanted Coffee, and Enchanted Tobacco makes some excellent temporary magical items, such as they are, for players. Temporary magical effects that benefit the Character or Characters within a radius of effect. It is a nice touch, and while mechanically-speaking not distinctly different from a Potion, the form that such an effect comes in is still enjoyed and appreciated by the Players.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

It's fine in a fantasy world, to a certain extent (I mean, does your fantasy world have international shipping or mass production? Otherwise, your coffee or tobacco had better be local or of very limited variety). But historically speaking, Tobacco doesn't start being used in Europe until the late 16th century, and coffee until the late 17th. Well past the "middle ages".

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 13, 2024, 07:50:48 PM
It's fine in a fantasy world, to a certain extent (I mean, does your fantasy world have international shipping or mass production? Otherwise, your coffee or tobacco had better be local or of very limited variety). But historically speaking, Tobacco doesn't start being used in Europe until the late 16th century, and coffee until the late 17th. Well past the "middle ages".

Indeed, there's a reason that D&D (despite being a Disneyland version of Medieval Europe) has everything happen at inns and pubs.

A book getting a lot of press recently has been a "cosy fantasy" novel entitled Legends & Lattes, by Travis Baldree, about a female orcish ex-mercenary who retires to set up a coffee shop in what looks like a fairly typical fantasy metropolis.

I haven't read it myself because it looks too annoyingly This-Year's-Seattle-esque in atmosphere to put up with for long, but I was curious if anybody else had; it might well be relevant to the topic.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on January 10, 2024, 09:06:08 PM
From my generally vague knowledge of history, teas, spices, coffees, and tobacco seem to play generally large (though understated) roles in human society and development.

You need look no further than the Silk Road, or all the memes about the British empire, in any sort of authentic setting I come to expect this sort of thing.

I've been trying to find a magical use for teas, spices and coffees, give some sort of subtle or even meta-jokish-reason wizards are always smoking something.

No one smokes tea (in a pipe) that I'm aware of but there is supposedly a list of effects from drinking it that are tied into eastern mysticism.

It's supposed to clear the mind, help with meditation, assist in controlling and channeling qi, and open one's spirit senses.  From a slightly different perspective, these could all be seen as directly contributing to a wizard's success.  Combine that with claims that it aids in longevity and you have yourself a mild magical elixir.  The mild effects taken over a longer time could most certainly be a boon to a wizard doing research, learning a new spell, or generally tuning his skills.

While we are all familiar with the caffeine jitters, in small doses caffeine does help with focus and emotional balance.  This is particularly pronounced when we are talking about people with ADD/ADHD.  In this respect, it's easy to see how magical properties as described above could ascribed to tea.

Legends and Latte's was actually an enjoyable read and I just finished the prequel, Bookshops & Bonedust.  It's not deep lore by any stretch, but it is still entertaining and might be inspiring for a more industrial age/cosmopolitan fantasy campaign.

https://www.thespruceeats.com/evolution-of-the-coffee-house-765825

I have had coffee shops of the English variety in my Arduin campaign as pirates and long distance shipping were very much part of that game.  Of course, wizards have been smoking pipe weed or ages, but their sources are more mysterious than the coffee trade.  There were no known tobacco growers in that campaign, so it might be of extra-dimensional origin or a summoned product.

In my current game, sea travel is impossible (ravenous sea monsters), but smoking wizards do exist and my character has even talked about rotating crops and the implication that tobacco growers are out there.  Coffee on the other hand does not exist, yet.  (Need to get the dragons unionized and create Feral Express.)   

[edit for typos]

Quote from: zircher on January 14, 2024, 03:03:40 PM
Legends and Latte's was actually an enjoyable read and I just finished the prequel, Bookshops & Bonedust.  It's not deep lore by any stretch, but it is still entertaining and might be inspiring for a more industrial age/cosmopolitan fantasy campaign.

https://www.thespruceeats.com/evolution-of-the-coffee-house-765825

I have had coffee shops of the English variety in my Arduin campaign as pirates and long distance shipping were very much part of that game.  Of course, wizards have been smoking pipe weed or ages, but their sources are more mysterious than the coffee trade.  There were no known tobacco growers in that campaign, so it might be of extra-dimensional origin or a summoned product.

In my current game, sea travel is impossible (ravenous sea monsters), but smoking wizards do exist and my character has even talked about rotating crops and the implication that tobacco growers are out there.  Coffee on the other hand does not exist, yet.  (Need to get the dragons unionized and create Feral Express.)   

[edit for typos]

Greetings!

Interesting take on the books, Zircher!

Yeah, in my world of Thandor, I have long distance trade facilitated by extensive overland trade routes, as well as trade conducted by sea. In the real world, ancient Rome could get pepper and spices from India to Rome, people in a fantasy world having access to coffee and tobacco is not a problem. Rome also managed to maintain trade with China as well. And what markets Rome didn't directly contact, they certainly had access to the world, as I mentioned, through trading with the kingdoms in India. Silk, glass, pepper, spices, peacock feathers, clothing, porcelain, fine metalwork, animals, all kinds of things. Truly incredible. Rome and Constantinople had access to virtually anything and everything.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on January 14, 2024, 01:46:08 AM
A book getting a lot of press recently has been a "cosy fantasy" novel entitled Legends & Lattes, by Travis Baldree, about a female orcish ex-mercenary who retires to set up a coffee shop in what looks like a fairly typical fantasy metropolis.

I haven't read it myself because it looks too annoyingly This-Year's-Seattle-esque in atmosphere to put up with for long, but I was curious if anybody else had; it might well be relevant to the topic.

Greetings!

"Cosy Fantasy!" *Laughing* Yeah, I can understand being suspicious.

As above though, Zircher says that the books are enjoyable. That doesn't surprise me though. Long ago, there were authors that wrote off-beat, and even wacky fantasy/comedy books that sought to merely take a different approach to characters and a story than the more common blood and thunder. Long before all the Woke BS, so it is possible to do it right.

Lawrence, I think. A few other authors. Some women, too. Like back in the 1980's and early 1990's. It has been done though. I have some of them in my collection, somewhere. *Laughing* Yes, it has been many years since I read them. They were good though. Some romance, some comedy, some wacky stuff.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Old-time coffee, tobacco or tea houses would work for me. But they would be very basic and more of a place to gather socially as opposed to getting a fancy coffee per se.

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 13, 2024, 10:44:22 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on January 13, 2024, 07:50:48 PM
It's fine in a fantasy world, to a certain extent (I mean, does your fantasy world have international shipping or mass production? Otherwise, your coffee or tobacco had better be local or of very limited variety). But historically speaking, Tobacco doesn't start being used in Europe until the late 16th century, and coffee until the late 17th. Well past the "middle ages".

Indeed, there's a reason that D&D (despite being a Disneyland version of Medieval Europe) has everything happen at inns and pubs.

Except that the standard generic-fantasy image of Ye Olde Tavern Pub as something that is basically an old-timey version of a modern pub/bar, which in fact only dates to the early 19th century.  Inns in England don't really catch on in a form resembling what you imagine them to be until around the 15th Century.
Freehouses date to before the Norman conquest. but most of these (until around the late 15th century) were mostly just the house of some widow where there was a large enough hall for a group of locals to sit and drink beer she brewed.