IIRC in Call of Cthulhu a character starts with EDU x 15 points in "career skills"  and INT x 5 in "background skills."  

then, as i was poking around the material on the chtulhu rising site i discovered this method:

EDU x 15 for "background" skills
EDU x 10 for "occupational" skills
INT x 5 for "personal development"

does that seem a bit much?  or would the CoC amount too miniscule?

I suspect that the reasoning in Cthulhu Rising is that they expect a much more technically competent character.  Given the emphasis on technology and warfare, it's easy to imagine where these "occupational" skill points are going.

Many BRP games featured significantly different means of accruing and distributing skills.  Choose and adjust one according to the style of game that you and your friends are comfortable playing.

!i!

Coincedentally, I was having a conversation with Sandy Petersen about EDU, Skill Points, etc. just this morning via email.

He let me know he now uses a completely different system for determining starting skills for Cthulhu PCs:

He'd said:
1)       determine your Occupation.
a.       Pick one occupation skill and set it to 70%
b.      Pick 3 more occupation skills, and set them to 50% each
c.       Pick 5 more occupation skills, and set them to 30% each

2)       Now determine your free-choice skills
a.       Pick any 2 skills you wish, and set them to 60%
b.      Pick any 4 skills you wish, and set them to 40%

3)       Done.

This give the player quite a few skill points, but has the major advantage that all players feel like they got a good character (or at least could have gotten one), and puts them on an equal level. I think with this system I'd be okay with lowering the EDU roll as well. It does give players quite a few skills, but also forces them to be kind of well-rounded.

By "Lowering EDU" we were talking about changing EDU to a 2d6+6 roll, instead of the 3d6+3 that it is in the current version of the game.  Simply, the existing ranking of EDU was a way to sort of map the 'years of education' which a character had.  (ie: Roll a 15?  You've finished through your Junior year at college.)

Changing EDU to a 2d6+6 roll puts the Know roll on the same level as the Idea, Luck, Agility, etc. (STAT)x5 rolls.  In other words, you don't end up with a guy with an EDU of 21, and having a Know of 105%.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI suspect that the reasoning in Cthulhu Rising is that they expect a much more technically competent character.  Given the emphasis on technology and warfare, it's easy to imagine where these "occupational" skill points are going.

that's what i thought, but the CR points were actually for civilian chargen, which i found surprising.

zomben, that's an interesting way of doing things.  maybe i'll try that (i've got a CoC modern one-shot coming up).  so does he dispense with the (stat x blank) completely, then?  

does anyone with ringworld or superworld, etc. have the starting points values available?  just curious, now. . . .

Quote from: beeberzomben, that's an interesting way of doing things.  maybe i'll try that (i've got a CoC modern one-shot coming up).  so does he dispense with the (stat x blank) completely, then?

Yup, that's exactly what he does.  Forget INTx10 and EDUx15, just use the levels he mentions up there.  Makes alloting skill points so much faster.  It's a great system for pick up games, and one-shots as well.  Not that Cthulhu chargen is particularly slow, but most gamers like to nickel and dime every point they allot...

SuperWorld doesn't map well.  The method for that game was to total up all of your character stats, which gave you a point total with which you could then buy super powers and skills.  Skills were bought in increments.

Ringworld is a little more useful, and thematically relevant, too.  "Occupation Points" are derived according to the following formulae:
   Education points --> (EDU - 10) x 20
Pursuits points --> (Age - [EDU + 6]) x 20
Special Interests --> INT x 10

"Education" points could be spent on a number of specified academic skills (various sciences, History, Law, etc.) and scholastically-related skills (like Athletics, Orate, Perform, etc.).  "Pursuits" are essentially careers, or at least avocations, each of which featured a set of commonly associated skills.  Special Interest points could be spent on any skill you liked.

Looking over the Ringworld point allowances, Cthulhu Rising doesn't appear too inflated, but Ringworld manages to balance out the amount of time your character spent in school versus the amount of time he would have been able to pursue a career.

!i!

[Edit: I had meant to mention that the Ringworld rules obviously encourage older characters, though in that game you were supposed to roll age randomly.  If your character is young, but rolls a high EDU, you might end up SOL as far as Pursuit skills go, but an older character will be well prepared to go forth and kick ass.]

the ringworld version sounds pretty neat.  i wonder if it'll be in the new BRP book?  

Quote from: beeberthe ringworld version sounds pretty neat.  i wonder if it'll be in the new BRP book?  

Well, it's a little problematic in its own way.  You see, the potential age of a starting character ranges from 1D6+17 to 2D100+256.  I didn't mis-type -- I checked the numbers twice.  In the Ringworld setting, there's ample provision for life-extension methods.  The disparity can be rather unsettling, though.

!i!

cripes!  i'll adjust that a tad, methinks, for my own purposes

Quote from: zombenCoincedentally, I was having a conversation with Sandy Petersen about EDU, Skill Points, etc. just this morning via email.

He let me know he now uses a completely different system for determining starting skills for Cthulhu PCs:

He'd said:
1)       determine your Occupation.
a.       Pick one occupation skill and set it to 70%
b.      Pick 3 more occupation skills, and set them to 50% each
c.       Pick 5 more occupation skills, and set them to 30% each

2)       Now determine your free-choice skills
a.       Pick any 2 skills you wish, and set them to 60%
b.      Pick any 4 skills you wish, and set them to 40%

3)       Done.

This give the player quite a few skill points, but has the major advantage that all players feel like they got a good character (or at least could have gotten one), and puts them on an equal level. I think with this system I'd be okay with lowering the EDU roll as well. It does give players quite a few skills, but also forces them to be kind of well-rounded.

By "Lowering EDU" we were talking about changing EDU to a 2d6+6 roll, instead of the 3d6+3 that it is in the current version of the game.  Simply, the existing ranking of EDU was a way to sort of map the 'years of education' which a character had.  (ie: Roll a 15?  You've finished through your Junior year at college.)

Changing EDU to a 2d6+6 roll puts the Know roll on the same level as the Idea, Luck, Agility, etc. (STAT)x5 rolls.  In other words, you don't end up with a guy with an EDU of 21, and having a Know of 105%.

This looks like a very cool system but I see some minor glitches. For example, the basic % of some skills could be higher than the points alloted. For example, what if I want to increase my Climb (40) but I only have available one of my 30% picks?

Sorting that minor things out, the system could work pretty good.

i've thought about that too, but i'm waiting for the players to send feedback about it first.  i'm having them generate characters solo, before the session, to (hopefully) speed play.  only one guy has the rulebook (5th ed.) so i gave them a link to the mad irishman's page and told them which version to use, and what dice to roll for stats.  and even then two guys went to the d20 version first :rolleyes:

I normally give a flat number of points, 300 for skills and 75 for interests say, rather than base it on Edu and Int both of which are plenty useful already.

CoC has seen massive point inflation by the way, it used to be 15 times Edu and 5 times Int, then around 4th or 5th edition they made it 20 and 10 times respectively, which for a closed percentile system personally I think is too much.

Quote from: BalbinusI normally give a flat number of points, 300 for skills and 75 for interests say, rather than base it on Edu and Int both of which are plenty useful already.

CoC has seen massive point inflation by the way, it used to be 15 times Edu and 5 times Int, then around 4th or 5th edition they made it 20 and 10 times respectively, which for a closed percentile system personally I think is too much.

I disagree with you on this. Before 5th ed CoC PCs were underskilled morons. No surprise that the death rate was so high

Quote from: ImperatorI disagree with you on this. Before 5th ed CoC PCs were underskilled morons. No surprise that the death rate was so high

I struggle to spend that many points, bear in mind 50-60 is a professional level of skill, 90 a master of it.

Besides, my old CoC characters did fine, increasing skill points doesn't really increase survival prospects that much in CoC.

Of course, I run CoC using third edition rules still...

Quote from: BalbinusI normally give a flat number of points, 300 for skills and 75 for interests say, rather than base it on Edu and Int both of which are plenty useful already.

CoC has seen massive point inflation by the way, it used to be 15 times Edu and 5 times Int, then around 4th or 5th edition they made it 20 and 10 times respectively, which for a closed percentile system personally I think is too much.

At the same time, however, 6th edition has a larger assortment of skills than 1st edition did.  In theory, you need more skill points because of the larger 'spread' of skills.

Which is something I want to address in any future Cthulhu games I run.  I'd really like to compress the vast number of skills to something a bit more manageable.