Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097097Was it the list of prostitutes?

Did you do the math?

Honestly it reads like something "edgy" White Wolf would splash across the pages rather than something I'd expect from Chaosium or Call of Cthulhu. Even the title is more WW than CoC.

On the other hand it does mesh nicely with more lurid works by authors like Ransey Campbell and his Severn Valley/Goatswood Mythos works.

And here I was hoping for a discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of the supplement on its own, because I've been eyeing picking it up.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1097194And here I was hoping for a discussion on the merits (or lack thereof) of the supplement on its own, because I've been eyeing picking it up.

Very YMMV. To me it lacks some crucial data and seems to overfocus on the seedier side. But that seems to be the point. And if I recall right some of the lacking info is in other books. As noted above. It meshes well with more lurid fare and by extension should work with a group that can handle such a place.

At least two players I game with online would find the book potentially interesting. So I'll be recommending it to them. Others I would not as the subject matter would repulse them to some degree.

Quote from: Anselyn;1097006Have you seen Cabaret?  (1972) - winner of 8 Academy Awards.

I thought about mentioning cabaret. It seems a pretty obvious model source for the feel of the period. The Blue Angel is good too, but less well known here in America.

Quote from: sirlarkins;1097112Thanks for the laugh, though--I totally read that comment in the voice of Aunt Bee from The Andy Griffith Show.

That made me chuckle.

QuoteI'd love to see someone produce a little supplemental for the Miskatonic Repository covering firearms and vehicles in Weimar

That's been done. Over a decade ago the Unspeakable Oath did a series of articles on firearms with multipage firearm tables with dates and countries of production (as well as a lot of other details). I wouldn't mind another list of European cars and trucks though.

I can't really imagine the material the OP quotes actually being useful or used in-game. In that light I would have to wonder why it's in the book. With the most likely explanation being the authors are indulging their own interest in queer/transgressive subcultures. That's their prerogative but it's not why I pick up C&C books.

I find the stuff on ages of consent distasteful in the extreme. I don't want to be anywhere near a game that gets into this kind of territory. The ick factor would be an immersion and enjoyment killer for me.

To return to the comparison the OP makes, I can imagine players wanting to know what cars are available for the PCs to 'borrow' (especially in a game with well-articulated chase rules) (and it's on the cover of the book). I can't see much demand for a detailed gaming-out of a whoring expedition.

P.S. if you read the story Nyarlathotep, I think you'll have a good idea what Lovecraft would have thought of it.

I think 1920s/1930s Europe will be a great backdrop to set Mythos adventures in.

Places like Berlin, Paris, Prague, Rome, etc are a great canvas for a backdrop once you decide you want games further afield than Lovecraft County

This might make quite an interesting setting

I think 1920s/1930s Europe would be a good backdrop to set Mythos adventures in.
Places like Berlin, Paris, Prague, Rome, etc are a great canvas once you decide you want games further afield than Lovecraft County

This might make quite an interesting setting

Quote from: Marchand;1097214I can't really imagine the material the OP quotes actually being useful or used in-game. In that light I would have to wonder why it's in the book. With the most likely explanation being the authors are indulging their own interest in queer/transgressive subcultures. That's their prerogative but it's not why I pick up C&C books.

I find the stuff on ages of consent distasteful in the extreme. I don't want to be anywhere near a game that gets into this kind of territory. The ick factor would be an immersion and enjoyment killer for me.

1: It can be viable with the right group and overall tone. Or serve as a great contrast to what the players or their characters were expecting. THIS is Berlin? roll sanity loss please. :eek:

2: Age of consent has waffled for ages and it makes sense when your life expectancy is substantially shorter as it was for many in ages past. This is set in the 1920s though in an area where certain groups all bets were off practically. For this book it can and will for some probably drift way too far into uncomfortable territory. YMMV of course. As allways. Talk it out with the DM or players.

Quote from: Marchand;1097214I can't really imagine the material the OP quotes actually being useful or used in-game. In that light I would have to wonder why it's in the book. With the most likely explanation being the authors are indulging their own interest in queer/transgressive subcultures. That's their prerogative but it's not why I pick up C&C books.

I find the stuff on ages of consent distasteful in the extreme. I don't want to be anywhere near a game that gets into this kind of territory. The ick factor would be an immersion and enjoyment killer for me.

To return to the comparison the OP makes, I can imagine players wanting to know what cars are available for the PCs to 'borrow' (especially in a game with well-articulated chase rules) (and it's on the cover of the book). I can't see much demand for a detailed gaming-out of a whoring expedition.

P.S. if you read the story Nyarlathotep, I think you'll have a good idea what Lovecraft would have thought of it.

I'm glad I'm not alone finding the info I quoted pretty useless in-game, and that I'm not the only one questioning the reasoning behind putting such emphasis on it all. That's why I thought Lynne Hardy had something to do with it all, because her Twitter has positive LGBTQ tweets and she's been involved in alot of new products. I have noticed how Chaosium has become more "inclusive", more political, etc, than in earlier years, not only in text but also in the artwork. That's why they do remakes of their own old scenarios, Masks of Nyarlathotep being a recent example. They have probably hopped on the woke train to terror. Which is such a shame when they should focus on making their scenarios and artwork scarier and less pulpy. Why not make the game for mature audiences in that regard?

I'm not sure about other people, but when I'm a Keeper I have never needed any historical info on different categories of prostitutes, regardless of setting and location. Info regarding 1920s transportation and car models or guns on the other hand is something I personally think is important for immersion. The NPC the Investigators are shadowing isn't just a Ford, it's a 1928 Model A Business Coupe. It's not just a revolver the Investigator carries, it's a Colt Army Special 32-20. I like to do alot of research like that, but I never researched the types of amputee and preteen prostitutes one might encounter in Berlin. And I wouldn't describe Berlin as some LGBTQ haven either. An American investigator hardly has to travel to Europe to see men dressed up as women in "Pansy Clubs" or play dice with syphilis.

[video=youtube_share;4zKnOV16WuQ]https://youtu.be/4zKnOV16WuQ[/youtube]

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097232I'm not sure about other people, but when I'm a Keeper I have never needed any historical info on different categories of prostitutes, regardless of setting and location. Info regarding 1920s transportation and car models or guns on the other hand is something I personally think is important for immersion. The NPC the Investigators are shadowing isn't just a Ford, it's a 1928 Model A Business Coupe. It's not just a revolver the Investigator carries, it's a Colt Army Special 32-20.

Different strokes for different folks. My players (who are all Berliners who playtested the game) frankly couldn't care less about whether a car is Benz Söhne or an Opel Laubfrosch. And cares only what the damage the gun does and its chances of misfire. But they cared tremendously about having coke-fuelled session with Anita Berber and her monkey. And whether their erratic playwright investigator would adapt the events of their recent investigations into the "Stärkster Mann" series of movies. Or how they would keep their film company afloat while the city and the country went to hell. And then stuff started happening that made them really want to find cabarets and other diversions to make them forget what they just dealt with....

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1097232when I'm a Keeper I have never needed any historical info on [...] It's not just a revolver the Investigator carries, it's a Colt Army Special 32-20. I like to do alot of research like that,  

Because ultimately, you care about killing people (NPCs) and how to do it - not the culture they live in, what's driven them to the mythos or the milieu in which your targets sit?

Quote from: Marchand;1097214I find the stuff on ages of consent distasteful in the extreme. I don't want to be anywhere near a game that gets into this kind of territory. The ick factor would be an immersion and enjoyment killer for me.

Sorry - but can you explain why this is distasteful?  Consider Taxi Driver (1976). Nominated for four academy awards. Wikipedia: "The film was considered "culturally, historically or aesthetically" significant by the US Library of Congress and was selected for preservation in the National Film Registry in 1994."  It has 12 year old Jodie Foster playing a teenage prostitute.  Is this just inherently distasteful?  More/less than facts in a book? In the film, Travis Bickell kills a number of people in trying to save Iris, the prostitute. Does that make it OK?

I know that RPGs often have equipment lists that are sets of historical facts. It doesn't mean that historical facts are equipment lists.

Honestly, this is quite awesome and EXACTLY what I was hoping for in a CoC period piece book about Weimar Berlin! This is some good setting basics that are absolutely gameable with factions and disagreements, inside and outside groups. Now I can do "Cabaret" or "Victor, Victoria" with a mythos touch.

Naturally, like all my CoC games, it'll be asking the very important question: with all that is said and done about crazy humanity, will you defend it? Even if it means death, a lifetime of even greater fear, or worse? Do you have hope for humanity?

So far this sounds concise, pertinent, gameable, AND optional. Nice!

Quote from: Anselyn;1097239Sorry - but can you explain why this is distasteful?

I find the concept of sex with minors not just distasteful, but abhorrent. Do I really need to explain that?

Quote from: Anselyn;1097239I know that RPGs often have equipment lists that are sets of historical facts. It doesn't mean that historical facts are equipment lists.

I think I see what you are driving at, but RPGs typically don't have lists of equipment that are never going to come up in play. If it's in the book, I assume it's because the authors thought the concept of paid sex with minors might arise in game. For ME (and I'm not trying to set rules for anyone else) that's so dark and difficult to handle appropriately in-game that I just don't want to go there at all.

I get it's partly a reference, but it's a gaming book not a history book and I don't feel obliged to play through some sort of statistically weighted sample of all the bad stuff that was happening in Berlin in the 1920s. "Bad news dude, you contracted TB."

This is not necessarily the book's fault but part of the ick factor for me is the mental image evoked of a bunch of middle-aged guys sitting around supposedly playing CoC but actually getting some sort of thrill out of "roleplaying" an underaged sex scenario.