Not really familiar with the product in question. Is this something new??

Quote from: RPGPundit;950232Not really familiar with the product in question. Is this something new??

Cepheus Engine is a "Traveller" SRD that is actually complete and allows you to play the game (as opposed to Mongoose's "let's pretend we're doing an SRD".). My understanding, which may not be complete, is that it was a one man effort that came out last year. There seems to be some level of ambivalence in the SRD, reflected in this thread and some other threads I've seen. http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/186894/Cepheus-Engine-System-Reference-Document

Clement Sector is Gypsy Knights' take on the Cepheus Engine, with evidently a lot of clean-up and presenting it more in the style where each career gets 2-3 pages with the tables and fluff together, instead of all the career tables being in one uber table. It sounds like the bundle I link below is what you need for rules, character generation, and building ships. http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/195794/Clement-Sector-Core-Bundle-BUNDLE

Quote from: RPGPundit;950232Not really familiar with the product in question. Is this something new??

Yes and no. What it is a clone of the Mongoose Traveller System Reference but using the Traveller D20 System Reference and original content to fill in the gaps that are in the MongTrav SRD notably the lack of any career except for a few examples.

Now a bit of background. For a long time there been little or no desire for any type of retro-clone or clone of Traveller because of the multiple editions, the fact Far Future (Marc Miller's current company) makes them readily available via CD-ROMs and reprints.

Also there is the fact that the Traveller D20 SRD and the Mongoose Traveller SRD were more than sufficient to handle what third party publishers wanted to publish. Which has been original settings using the Traveller rules, gear (ships, weapons, etc), and referee aides.

Finally because so much of Traveller revolves around the Third Imperium there never been much of a demand either creatively or to buy for third party Traveller product. This changed because one of the good things that Mongoose Traveller 1st edition was explicitly return Traveller to being a generic sci-fi RPG. Not only in the rules but the marketing as well. So interest in other setting was re-ignited. Mongoose released the Traveller SRD and the Traveller Logo program and people took advantage of it.

For various reasons Mongoose decided to a new edition of Traveller. One of things they also did was to ditch the Traveller Logo program in favor of using One Bookshelf's Community Content program. This was called the Traveller Aid Society and was featured alongside the 5e community content program, Cortex, etc. At first it sounded good because it allowed full access to the rules and more importantly access to the Third Imperium setting. But......

When you read the license for TAS (or any other Community Content program) you surrender all rights FOR THE LIFE OF THE COPYRIGHT to distribute the submitted material anywhere else and any DERIVED material any where else.

Now this isn't so bad when it comes to something Third Imperium. The 3I is clearly Marc's IP and this is likely as good as it gets short of a traditional license. But for the guys who were making original settings and taking advantage of the old SRD and the Traveller Logo program, this license is as hostile as it gets. Once submitted they can never ever published that setting elsewhere including under a different set of RPG rules. Again the license agreement with OBS covers derived works. Since for the past couple of years most 3PP Traveller publishers were marketing original setting this meant TAS was a no-go.

So say this went down well is an understatement. I personally believe that more of a case that Matt (of Mongoose) didn't think through. That the focus on was on the fact that the full rules and Third Imperium setting was available. When this all went down, Matt wound up with egg on his face and pretty much was humiliated in the eyes of most Third Party Publishers.

Because of open content and the OGL, the 3PP didn't have to take this lying down. There was work to be done because neither SRD (d20 or MongTrav 1e) was a complete set of rules. Hence the Cepheus Game Engine was written by Jason Kemp by Samardan Press. And in the year since it release it been widely adopted and adapted by the Traveller 3PP community.

It probably won't have the same impact on Traveller as the D20 SRD on D&D because of the how the Traveller Community works. It will allow Traveller based settings to develop on their own regardless of how the current license holder of Traveller is.

My personal opinion is that this is a great thing. Traveller has had a lot of different rules edition and the hobby been in a cycle of new editions for along time. While each new edition expanded the lore about the Third Imperium they also had to retread a lot of things as well. This resulted in a hobby that was not receptive to original settings and original supplement. Now with the stability of the Cepheus Game Engine, these publishers can move forward and build up a fanbase of their own.

Quote from: Tod13;950270There seems to be some level of ambivalence in the SRD, reflected in this thread and some other threads I've seen. http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/186894/Cepheus-Engine-System-Reference-Document

Because the Traveller hobby is split among several editions and above all the dominance of the Third Imperium setting over homebrew settings.

Quote from: estar;950273Because the Traveller hobby is split among several editions and above all the dominance of the Third Imperium setting over homebrew settings.

"Ambivalence" was chosen before my coffee so might not be the best word choice. I really did mean "ambivalence in the SRD" as in, some of the rules are confusing, incomplete, or contradictory.

Quote from: Tod13;950278"Ambivalence" was chosen before my coffee so might not be the best word choice. I really did mean "ambivalence in the SRD" as in, some of the rules are confusing, incomplete, or contradictory.

Sure but the good news it open content so it can be "fixed" by the community. But likely the best way to go is just to do what Gypsy Knights Games did and just use the document as a base for your own setting and fix it how you like.

With that being said, I consider Cepheus to be more bare-bones and a publisher reference like the first version of OSRIC than a standalone rule book.

OSRIC had two versions with the second version being the one written like a actual standalone RPG. The first version more or less presented list of stuff and rules and was intended to cover what parts of AD&D could be used as open content due to the same concept or rule being in the d20 SRD.

Quote from: estar;950271Yes and no. What it is a clone of the Mongoose Traveller System Reference but using the Traveller D20 System Reference and original content to fill in the gaps that are in the MongTrav SRD notably the lack of any career except for a few examples.

Now a bit of background. For a long time there been little or no desire for any type of retro-clone or clone of Traveller because of the multiple editions, the fact Far Future (Marc Miller's current company) makes them readily available via CD-ROMs and reprints.

Also there is the fact that the Traveller D20 SRD and the Mongoose Traveller SRD were more than sufficient to handle what third party publishers wanted to publish. Which has been original settings using the Traveller rules, gear (ships, weapons, etc), and referee aides.

Finally because so much of Traveller revolves around the Third Imperium there never been much of a demand either creatively or to buy for third party Traveller product. This changed because one of the good things that Mongoose Traveller 1st edition was explicitly return Traveller to being a generic sci-fi RPG. Not only in the rules but the marketing as well. So interest in other setting was re-ignited. Mongoose released the Traveller SRD and the Traveller Logo program and people took advantage of it.

For various reasons Mongoose decided to a new edition of Traveller. One of things they also did was to ditch the Traveller Logo program in favor of using One Bookshelf's Community Content program. This was called the Traveller Aid Society and was featured alongside the 5e community content program, Cortex, etc. At first it sounded good because it allowed full access to the rules and more importantly access to the Third Imperium setting. But......

When you read the license for TAS (or any other Community Content program) you surrender all rights FOR THE LIFE OF THE COPYRIGHT to distribute the submitted material anywhere else and any DERIVED material any where else.

Now this isn't so bad when it comes to something Third Imperium. The 3I is clearly Marc's IP and this is likely as good as it gets short of a traditional license. But for the guys who were making original settings and taking advantage of the old SRD and the Traveller Logo program, this license is as hostile as it gets. Once submitted they can never ever published that setting elsewhere including under a different set of RPG rules. Again the license agreement with OBS covers derived works. Since for the past couple of years most 3PP Traveller publishers were marketing original setting this meant TAS was a no-go.

So say this went down well is an understatement. I personally believe that more of a case that Matt (of Mongoose) didn't think through. That the focus on was on the fact that the full rules and Third Imperium setting was available. When this all went down, Matt wound up with egg on his face and pretty much was humiliated in the eyes of most Third Party Publishers.

Because of open content and the OGL, the 3PP didn't have to take this lying down. There was work to be done because neither SRD (d20 or MongTrav 1e) was a complete set of rules. Hence the Cepheus Game Engine was written by Jason Kemp by Samardan Press. And in the year since it release it been widely adopted and adapted by the Traveller 3PP community.

It probably won't have the same impact on Traveller as the D20 SRD on D&D because of the how the Traveller Community works. It will allow Traveller based settings to develop on their own regardless of how the current license holder of Traveller is.

My personal opinion is that this is a great thing. Traveller has had a lot of different rules edition and the hobby been in a cycle of new editions for along time. While each new edition expanded the lore about the Third Imperium they also had to retread a lot of things as well. This resulted in a hobby that was not receptive to original settings and original supplement. Now with the stability of the Cepheus Game Engine, these publishers can move forward and build up a fanbase of their own.

Thank you for this.  This is an excellent history of the Mongoose vs. 3PP.

Quote from: estar;950338Sure but the good news it open content so it can be "fixed" by the community. But likely the best way to go is just to do what Gypsy Knights Games did and just use the document as a base for your own setting and fix it how you like.

With that being said, I consider Cepheus to be more bare-bones and a publisher reference like the first version of OSRIC than a standalone rule book.

OSRIC had two versions with the second version being the one written like a actual standalone RPG. The first version more or less presented list of stuff and rules and was intended to cover what parts of AD&D could be used as open content due to the same concept or rule being in the d20 SRD.

I don't want to step in and speak for Jason but that is the reasoning behind The Cepheus Engine.  It is intended to act as a set of base rules that publishers or referees could use, bend, and modify to their liking.

Quote from: Tod13;950270Cepheus Engine is a "Traveller" SRD that is actually complete and allows you to play the game (as opposed to Mongoose's "let's pretend we're doing an SRD".). My understanding, which may not be complete, is that it was a one man effort that came out last year. There seems to be some level of ambivalence in the SRD, reflected in this thread and some other threads I've seen. http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/186894/Cepheus-Engine-System-Reference-Document

Clement Sector is Gypsy Knights' take on the Cepheus Engine, with evidently a lot of clean-up and presenting it more in the style where each career gets 2-3 pages with the tables and fluff together, instead of all the career tables being in one uber table. It sounds like the bundle I link below is what you need for rules, character generation, and building ships. http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/195794/Clement-Sector-Core-Bundle-BUNDLE

I see, thanks!

Cepheus Engine is the $1 version of not-Traveller.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;950792Cepheus Engine is the $1 version of not-Traveller.

Which Traveller? CT, MT, TNE, T4, GT,HERO, T20, T5, MgT1, or MgT2? Which one of those games are Traveller and why is Cepheus any different?

Of course you failed to mentioned the fact you were knee deep in the playtesting of Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition.

I also to ask why do you even care? It not like you are a publisher. Mongoose is going churn out 2e supplements. Their quality is better than MgT2 so Mongoose is going to have its customers. Which means you are going to have books to buy for the edition you are emotionally invested in. Cepheus doesn't have anything to do with Third Imperium which remains under Marc Miller control. So again what your problem with a bunch of folk trying to route around the damage that Matt's fuckup caused?

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;950792Cepheus Engine is the $1 version of not-Traveller.

From the mouth of a BNG, ladies and gentlemen.

Quote from: jeff37923;950819From the mouth of a BNG, ladies and gentlemen.

I had to look up "BNG" in the Urban Dictionary.

Quote from: Gypsy Knights Games;951468I had to look up "BNG" in the Urban Dictionary.

LOL, I meant it to mean Bitter Non-Gamer, but Blow-n-Go works as well!

Quote from: jeff37923;951696LOL, I meant it to mean Bitter Non-Gamer, but Blow-n-Go works as well!

He's a great cure for insomnia too