Just ran across these the other day in the 2e DMG. Anyone ever use them? They seem really simple, which I like.
Quote from: RunningLaser;732963Just ran across these the other day in the 2e DMG. Anyone ever use them? They seem really simple, which I like.
I've used them a few times. They were actually based on a Dragon Magazine article designed for class-making in BECMI D&D. Very very similar in fact. I used them to fashion a shapeshifter class. (Could mostly do animals, but also every few levels picked up a "powered" form.)
I've used them. They work. Characters made with those rules tend to need more experience than they probably should require. It's part of the trade-off for the flexibility. The whole thing works well enough in a minimalistic way.
That said, I came to the personal conclusion that if I was messing with trying to create my own custom D&D classes, that I was better off playing another game with greater mechanical character customization. YMMV.
In both 1e and 2e, when I did custom character classes, I sort of just threw those guidelines away and created something that just felt right, from a balance standpoint. If you're objective and don't let your biases get in the way ("My ninja class uses the fighter's THAC0, all the thief abilities, d12 for hp, and can cast spells!"), then it works just doing it on the fly.
I actually made a computer program that automated it. Visual Basic, so probably doesn't run on modern computers...
I've found doing it on the fly can produce really bad results. That's my main complaint with Blood & Treasure, the classes are really unbalanced because he just went by feel.
But really, by whatever method, the only way is playtesting...
Definitely agree with the sentiment that these rules can work out poorly. The same is true of the Player's Options character class customization rules. They work fine for some purposes but you can end up in odd corners if you are not careful.
To me they failed because the existing classes couldn't be created with them.
Quote from: Exploderwizard;732991To me they failed because the existing classes couldn't be created with them.
Why would you need to create the existing classes? You already have them.
Also I'm fairly sure you could create the existing classes, but at a premium in terms of XP/level, but I personally have no qualms about levying a special snowflake tax.
I actually designed a system based on it and used it to design the classes in Dark Passages. It's one of the bits I've never really released or showed, that and the spell creation system.
It's been ages, but we actually played a campaign where everyone made their characters using that table. I think the logic at the time was that everyone would face the same xp premium as everyone else. If I remember correctly, it made spell caster progression quite costly.
Flippancy aside, I think the XP premium is useful because its a solid way to make players stop and really think about whether one of the established classes wouldn't meet their needs instead.
Huh, interesting. I wasn't aware AD&D 2nd had such a section. I skipped over that edition as my friends and I had moved on to other games and we hadn't read much good about it anyway.
Makes me recall that back in the late 80's, back when the Internet was green text on a black screen, I used to post to an early game forum. One of my larger posts was designing a new AD&D class: Dune's Bene Gesserit as fantasy characters. Primarily meant to be an NPC class although it could be used for PCs too. They came out as a modified Monk class with a different set of level bonus advantages.
I've long wondered what happened to that old forum. Swallowed up by the electrons of time I guess.
Quote from: Doughdee222;733009Huh, interesting. I wasn't aware AD&D 2nd had such a section. I skipped over that edition as my friends and I had moved on to other games and we hadn't read much good about it anyway.
Makes me recall that back in the late 80's, back when the Internet was green text on a black screen, I used to post to an early game forum. One of my larger posts was designing a new AD&D class: Dune's Bene Gesserit as fantasy characters. Primarily meant to be an NPC class although it could be used for PCs too. They came out as a modified Monk class with a different set of level bonus advantages.
I've long wondered what happened to that old forum. Swallowed up by the electrons of time I guess.
Its fun to play around with as long as you do not have a player who likes to game the system.
In the wrong hands it was possible to create some potentially broken custom classes. Wasnt easy. But could be done from personal experience. Ive heard others report players who created really broken customs somehow.
Used as it was intended though its fine.