Quote from: David RTough Guy ? And you don't really want to go into the whole Private High School social groups

If we're talking English private schools wouldn't there just be the two basic classes: hot crumpeter and hot crumpetee?

RPGPundit

Well, in D&D there's race and class.

Race describes what someone is and Class describes what they do. So the obvious paralell for HS is to have races like Jock, Nerd, Outcast, Princess, Artiste... and classes like Actor, Bandmember, Burgerflipper, Cheerleader, Honor Student, Motorhead, Stoner, Vollyball player....

That way, characters can identify each others "race" on sight, but they have to intuit "class" by looking at their gear.

Human in heavy armor and wielding Mace, heavy? Human Cleric.
Nerd wearing vest of many pockets and pointing a camera, SLR? Nerd Yearbook photographer.
Jock eating salad, no dressing? Jock Wrestler.

Classes are gonna end up being based on a couple things.

There's stuff you're into. Geeks being the quintessence of this, picking the most focussed and irrelevant things and obsessing over them. Then you've got folks less enthusiastic and into more general categories. I've known plenty of mathematicians and folks into literature and drama club members and techies whatnot. All different kinds of geek here that don't necessarily see eye-to-eye on the basis of whatever makes them geeks.

Then there's the stuff you're good at and have going for you. You might be an intellectual type, an athletic type, a sociable type, rich, etc.

Then there's how you fit in. Or if you fit in, for that matter.


Divide as you see fit. Anyway, I see people as having two classes, but maybe that's just me.

Geek:Pick something you're into. Your abilities focus on that. As a drawback you're alienated for those who don't share a similar focus.
Academic:Good grades. No life. Might also be able to focus on one subject.
Jock:Good in athletics. Inept in academics. (not true to life, IME, but true to... genre?)

And so on and so forth. Although I have to say I'm ashamed I joined this discussion, for whatever reason.

:rolleyes:

You have obviously not read Wandering Monster High (it's free -- check it out to make sure that you're not covering the same ground twice).

Quote from: J ArcaneThis thread is spectacular case study in why classes serve poorly in modern or realistic settings.

Not really. High schools were the most classified social structures I have had the misfortune to encounter. If there is a place where a modern setting cries for classes, it is a high school based game.

Quote from: MelanNot really. High schools were the most classified social structures I have had the misfortune to encounter. If there is a place where a modern setting cries for classes, it is a high school based game.

Ooh, that would make German schools past 4th grade prestige classes...

Quote from: MelanNot really. High schools were the most classified social structures I have had the misfortune to encounter. If there is a place where a modern setting cries for classes, it is a high school based game.

I disagree.  I'm reading this thread, and based on my experiences, the "classes" presented seem to have more to do with John Hughes movies than any reality I experienced, or that of my younger friends and siblings.

My high school was probably one of the more egalitarian social settings I ever experienced.  There was a lot of crossbleed between social circles, interests, attitudes.  Like anything in life you could probably force it into some bad stereotypes, but it would ring pretty false in comparison with reality.

Real people just don't fit into neat little boxes like that, which is why classes don't mix well with a realistic setting, because they require broadbrush stereotypes to be flavorfully interesting.  They work well for fantastic or cinematic settings, where one has the liberty to play in cliche without breaking ones suspension of disbelief.

I agree with J.Arcane but then again I'm from another country...that didn't come out as intended :haw:

Regards,
David R

Quote from: malleus arianorumWell, in D&D there's race and class.

Race describes what someone is and Class describes what they do. So the obvious paralell for HS is to have races like Jock, Nerd, Outcast, Princess, Artiste... and classes like Actor, Bandmember, Burgerflipper, Cheerleader, Honor Student, Motorhead, Stoner, Vollyball player....

That way, characters can identify each others "race" on sight, but they have to intuit "class" by looking at their gear.

Human in heavy armor and wielding Mace, heavy? Human Cleric.
Nerd wearing vest of many pockets and pointing a camera, SLR? Nerd Yearbook photographer.
Jock eating salad, no dressing? Jock Wrestler.

If your going with a game with classes. I think Malleus has it right. The races so to speak and class. I think mix well and show the diversity. But its really hard to get the seperate types of people completely classified. To do this you might have to be content with some broad classes. Which may leave certain people out. Maybe just add them as needed. Kind of like when you buy a new supplement. With new character classes and introduce them to an exsisting campaign.
Really I think a classless game would work better. But thats not what your looking for.

Quote from: BrimshackOne question that occurs to me is how much are these categories a reflection of social roles and how much are they a function of actual skills and pursuits.

Well, it's deliberately a little bit of both.  A large part of the "skills" that others look to you to have in order to fulfill one of these social roles boils down to just a willingness to fulfill the social role.  If people are looking to you to be a Scrapper, and you get angry and fight people then ... well, you're a Scrapper, even if you lose.  Perhaps, even if you always lose ... even if you aren't, objectively, a very good fighter at all.  They weren't looking for you to be a good fighter ... they were looking for you to have a willingness to start fights.

Now it's not totally unconnected to talents ... because people are likely to look at the good fighters to be Scrappers in the first place, and the good fighters are more likely to embrace that identity when people try to fit it for them.  But it's a wierd feedback loop that can tend to accentuate first impressions.  People go along with it because it creates structure very quickly, and that lets people have a sense of belonging, of having a place to fit in with their fellows.

Quote from: BrimshackThe reson I ask is that I think one of the most interesting things about high school was the growing tension between those things.

Totally!  As time goes on some people find that their social role isn't expressing everything they are.  The very identity they strove to achieve starts fitting too tightly as they become more familiar with all of their varied talents.

But hey, this is just character creation.  This is the starting point from which you set out on the journey.

...no one has suggested the obvious choice:  Vampire the Masquerade.  The clans are just high school cliques with fangs.

Quote from: Samarkand...no one has suggested the obvious choice:  Vampire the Masquerade.  The clans are just high school cliques with fangs.

Quick mapping ....

Poet -> Toreador
Scrapper -> Brujah
Geek -> Nosferatu
Bookworm -> Tremere
Princess -> Ventrue

If I were more interested in something like "Freak" then we'd have a match for Malks as well.  So yeah ... looks like a good insight there!  Good eye, Samarkand.

Nothing for Gangrel, huh?  D'ya think there oughta be a "Granola" type archetype?  Or is it too recent to have any iconic weight?

Quote from: TonyLBAnd "Nurturer" is ... grghle ... well, I've been watching a lot of Ah My Goddess, and so I want a place for the sweet girl who spends her time trying to take care of others (even when that means that bad stuff befalls her).  Dunno what quite the right word for it is.  Martha-Stewart-wannabe?

Gack.  I am soooooo stoooooopid.  I figured out what this one should be named.

You've got a person who wants to take on a role where they support and encourage others?  Yeah.  That'd be "Cheerleader."  Not having "Cheerleader" on my class list was a crime against man and nature anyway.  I think I got thrown by the image that a cheerleader has to be loud and flashy and out there ... but written the right way it could just as easily be a class that you can adapt to be quietly working behind the scenes to give people a boost toward achieving their dreams.

The combination of my personal experience with american high schools and my reading/viewing of (heavily fictionalized, no doubt!) japanese high schools is sorta wierd.  Do they have cheerleaders in japan?

I guess according to this thread I'd have been:

4 Jock/2 Scrapper/2 Geek

Multiclassed.