Much of Zelazny's late 60s and early 70s writing was, at its core, a take no shit 50s man moving through a trippy 60s world.

But even in Zelazny's work, this didn't always work out ideally for the men. And you can absolutely portray sexist attitudes in modern media; you just don't want to portray those attitudes as unerringly accurate.

Quote from: daniel_ream;912019The series as a whole is very 1970's politically incorrect, what with all the unapologetic smoking and woman-slapping.  It's very Chandler-esque.  Again, I'm not sure you could do the series faithfully for F/SF audiences today.  (Yes, I know about Mad Men and Hell on Wheels &c.; I'm talking F/SF audiences, who are thoroughly feminized into pearl-clutching at the slightest hint of manliness.)

So my defination of feminism: The radical idea that women are people.

I don't think Amber is sexist just disinterested in women.  Which makes it sexist though not blatantly so.  

And smoking.  Come on smoking is cool and if you are imortal why not?

A modern audience deserves to see them selfs on screen.  So women and people of color and Peter Dinklage.

Quote from: Headless;912041So my defination of feminism: The radical idea that women are people.

No one gives a damn about your definition of feminism.

QuoteI don't think Amber is sexist just disinterested in women.  Which makes it sexist though not blatantly so.

If you think you could get away with airing the scene where Corwin slaps Flora to calm her down on TV - even premium cable TV - and remain a sympathetic protagonist to the audience, I wish you the very best of luck in your career as a producer.

QuoteAnd smoking.  Come on smoking is cool and if you are imortal why not?

Yes, thank God they invented the, you know, whatever device.

QuoteA modern audience deserves to see them selfs on screen.  So women and people of color and Peter Dinklage.

Didn't we have this bullshit thread already?

So amber never knew it was a book series and im always up for more fantasy on tv on the other hand live action ewwwwww.

Quote from: daniel_ream;912019The series as a whole is very 1970's politically incorrect, what with all the unapologetic smoking and woman-slapping.  It's very Chandler-esque.  Again, I'm not sure you could do the series faithfully for F/SF audiences today.  (Yes, I know about Mad Men and Hell on Wheels &c.; I'm talking F/SF audiences, who are thoroughly feminized into pearl-clutching at the slightest hint of manliness.)

If its going to be politically correct bull shit i dont want it.
and you can most certainly have strong men on tv.
If the men are like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTewk-1CTNw
the women simply need to be more this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N55Z7sr8mHI
and it can very much balance out.
or for another example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynffb7G_oIs

Quote from: daniel_ream;912046No one gives a damn about your definition of feminism.



If you think you could get away with airing the scene where Corwin slaps Flora to calm her down on TV - even premium cable TV - and remain a sympathetic protagonist to the audience, I wish you the very best of luck in your career as a producer.



Yes, thank God they invented the, you know, whatever device.



Didn't we have this bullshit thread already?

I thought a basic reason to participate in an online form was because you were interested in what other people had to say.  I provided a definition because I thought we were starting to talk about it, you brought it up.  If you don't like my definition provide a different one.  It helps to know what other people mean when they use certain words.

I don't remember Corwin slapping Flora so I guess they could cut it with out really damaging the story.  Flora is a bit of a problem.  She is really a Sansa Stark, so as long as their is an Arya and a Denaryis no problem.  There's a Fi and a Dara, but I'm not sure if they are in the story enough. BUt they might be.  I would even consider they stories have enough female representation as is, but you said they didn't so I am supporting your point.  

Don't know what device you are talking about.  

If we had this discussion already I missed it.  And if you are done with this thread don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Let's face it, it's going to suck.  The production values will be extremely high, the state of special effects is certainly good enough for Shadow Walking and other things to be excellent, but what they do with the adaptation is going to make it not Amber.  On thing that I strongly fear they will do is update the Shadow Earth setting into current times, not the late 60s - early 70s that it was written in and I think that will spoil things.  They are also probably going to try and make it more inclusive, which I can understand to a certain extent, but even when it was written SF&F was already inclusive in characters and Zelazny chose to not make it so in the main characters.  What they come up with may even be watchable, at least if you haven't read the books, but it won't be Amber.

Quote from: SionEwig;912177[...]when it was written SF&F was already inclusive in characters and Zelazny chose to not make it so in the main characters.

Just about everything Zelazny wrote is unapologetically regressively male, and often told by a first-person narrator who is sardonic and introspective.

I'm coming around to the notion that the only way Amber can be done at all is to abandon the first-person unreliable narrator stance and just go for epic fantasy.  It won't feel like the books, but that's okay; adaptations are their own thing.

Quote from: SionEwig;912177Let's face it, it's going to suck.  The production values will be extremely high, the state of special effects is certainly good enough for Shadow Walking and other things to be excellent, but what they do with the adaptation is going to make it not Amber.  On thing that I strongly fear they will do is update the Shadow Earth setting into current times, not the late 60s - early 70s that it was written in and I think that will spoil things.  They are also probably going to try and make it more inclusive, which I can understand to a certain extent, but even when it was written SF&F was already inclusive in characters and Zelazny chose to not make it so in the main characters.  What they come up with may even be watchable, at least if you haven't read the books, but it won't be Amber.

For this kind of TV show they've pretty much got to make it ensemble which means it's not all going to get told from Corwin's perspective which changes things a lot.

As for not making everyone white, TV shows do a shitty job of making siblings look like siblings. It'd make things easier for the viewer if they had all of the Amberites' mothers be of different races and the kids look like that so it'd be easier to keep track of which Amberites are full siblings.

Quote from: Daztur;912225I'd make things easier for the fewer if they had all of the Amberites' mothers be of different races and the kids look like that so it'd be easier to keep track of which Amberites are full siblings.

I think this is an excellent idea.

I was watching one of my daughter's shows (Teen Wolf, I think) and remarked how half of the characters looked alike. Oh, look, another brunette girl with the same hair style. Who is she, again?

I get tired of everyone looking the same, and having some diversity in the mothers would certainly lead to an interesting diversity of the children. The only problem is that this may take some of the spoilers out of the series, if it becomes too obvious as to who is related to whom.

Quote from: finarvyn;912283I think this is an excellent idea.

I was watching one of my daughter's shows (Teen Wolf, I think) and remarked how half of the characters looked alike. Oh, look, another brunette girl with the same hair style. Who is she, again?

I get tired of everyone looking the same, and having some diversity in the mothers would certainly lead to an interesting diversity of the children. The only problem is that this may take some of the spoilers out of the series, if it becomes too obvious as to who is related to whom.

So what you're saying is that you want them colour coded for your convenience, kinda like superhero costumes?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;912288So what you're saying is that you want them colour coded for your convenience, kinda like superhero costumes?

Yes! That would be nice, thanks!

Quote from: Christopher Brady;912288So what you're saying is that you want them colour coded for your convenience, kinda like superhero costumes?

Um, yes? When we read books they just give us the name when a character shows up (usually) but in TV shows it's a lot harder. In Game of Thrones people who haven't read the books have a hell of a time keeping all of the grizzled men in dark leather apart (they really should have put REALLY obvious house sigils on EVERYONE'S clothes). With Amber it's important people can keep track of who is who without having name tags. Having the red heads be red heads is a big help but making it really obvious who share the same mothers would really help since Hollywood generally does not prioritize showing family resemblance in casting at all.

I feel about this the same way as when I was a child and my parents said "we're saving up, and we're going to go on a vacation this summer!". Yeah. That would be wonderful. I'll believe it when I see it. It may happen. But I'm crossing my arms in the meantime and furrowing my brow skeptically.

//Panjumanju

Mercifully I am not into the Amber series and so if Hollywood fucks it up. Well what else is new? No adaption to TV or the big screen remains faithful. Someone somewhere has to change something. Usually alot of something.

And honestly Im sick and tired of the whole inclusionism spiel.

TV and movies have become 70s Saturday Morning Cartoons where you have to include a couple of ethnics, maybe a handicapper, and at least one pet and/or a kid sidekick if they arent all kids.

So what sort of pet will Corwin get?

Quote from: Daztur;912447With Amber it's important people can keep track of who is who without having name tags.

How fortunate, then, that every scion of Amber has a habit of dressing in their personal colours.