Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on July 25, 2022, 06:14:18 AM

Quote from: Leon_ap_Hywel on July 25, 2022, 04:14:00 AM

Quote from: SHARK on July 24, 2022, 05:10:56 PM
Greetings!

Let the heretics and blasphemers be judged. Break them on the wheel, scourge them in wrath, and cast them into the fires!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

That's the Christian's history knows and loves 

Indeed... Control through fear... Islam loves that one too.

I wonder are you allowed play RPGs under Sharia?

Only Buddha loves the roleplay...pagans are larpers

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on July 25, 2022, 07:20:50 AM
Well to bring it back on topic.

What's the overall feeling here then. Do most evangelicals believe that using props is a sin, or at least leads you into spiritual peril by contacting unwanted and possibly evil supernatural attention?

One third of Christians are evangelicals.  And most evangelicals reside outside of North America and Europe.
The evangelicals in the USA share such disparate beliefs the question you ask is not really answerable under the
premise "What do evangelicals believe about tarot (or props)?".
I would presume you would get wildly different answers from a Catholic evangelical, Methodist, Pentacostal and a Seventh-Day Adventist.

Quote from: DocJones on July 25, 2022, 11:05:45 AM
I would presume you would get wildly different answers from a Catholic evangelical than a Seventh Day Adventist.

And all equally as nonsensical.

Quote from: Timothe on July 25, 2022, 05:19:59 AM

Quote from: Leon_ap_Hywel on July 25, 2022, 04:16:22 AM

Quote from: David Johansen on July 24, 2022, 08:29:40 PM
I mentioned before that some doors may be best left closed.  The problem for many Christians is of course, that they already believe in the supernatural and the door is already half way open.  I think the more evangelical Christians generally take a more mystical approach to the world and religion than more mainstream groups and are thus more readily disturbed by occult paraphrenalia and imagery.

I think if you're the kind of person who believes there's an old guy in the sky who watches you while you shower RPGs might not be a healthy outlet for you.

And another addition to my Ignore list. I'm not going have to spend lot of time checking this forum in the future.

Indeed.  I thought Battlemaster was worthless, but even he occasionally offered something of value, unlike the Cymwad here.

Quote from: I on July 25, 2022, 11:24:42 AM

Quote from: Timothe on July 25, 2022, 05:19:59 AM

Quote from: Leon_ap_Hywel on July 25, 2022, 04:16:22 AM

Quote from: David Johansen on July 24, 2022, 08:29:40 PM
I mentioned before that some doors may be best left closed.  The problem for many Christians is of course, that they already believe in the supernatural and the door is already half way open.  I think the more evangelical Christians generally take a more mystical approach to the world and religion than more mainstream groups and are thus more readily disturbed by occult paraphrenalia and imagery.

I think if you're the kind of person who believes there's an old guy in the sky who watches you while you shower RPGs might not be a healthy outlet for you.

And another addition to my Ignore list. I'm not going have to spend lot of time checking this forum in the future.

Indeed.  I thought Battlemaster was worthless, but even he occasionally offered something of value, unlike the Cymwad here.

Can't add value to trash. Which is where religion belongs.

Quote from: DocJones on July 25, 2022, 11:05:45 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on July 25, 2022, 07:20:50 AM
Well to bring it back on topic.

What's the overall feeling here then. Do most evangelicals believe that using props is a sin, or at least leads you into spiritual peril by contacting unwanted and possibly evil supernatural attention?

One third of Christians are evangelicals.  And most evangelicals reside outside of North America and Europe.
The evangelicals in the USA share such disparate beliefs the question you ask is not really answerable under the
premise "What do evangelicals believe about tarot (or props)?".
I would presume you would get wildly different answers from a Catholic evangelical, Methodist, Pentacostal and a Seventh-Day Adventist.

I was brought up conservative/confessional Lutheran, where theological doctrine is concerned the Bible is definitely infallible. No relation to the larger liberal Lutheran denomination. Our ancestors came over from Saxony around 1838 onward mainly settling in the Midwest. I think we have more in common with the Roman Catholics (except we didn't spend generations recruiting gay priests who later molested children) than the American Evangelical Protestants who I think are mostly batshit crazy. A pastor I know calls them Methobapticostals.

Quote from: DocJones on July 25, 2022, 11:05:45 AM
One third of Christians are evangelicals.  And most evangelicals reside outside of North America and Europe.
The evangelicals in the USA share such disparate beliefs the question you ask is not really answerable under the
premise "What do evangelicals believe about tarot (or props)?".
I would presume you would get wildly different answers from a Catholic evangelical, Methodist, Pentacostal and a Seventh-Day Adventist.

I think though (in general) Americans are more conservative than Europeans when it comes to religion. Now there are exceptions to every rule as well but in the British Isles, the wackos don't have any political power because they are far too small. That's not to say they are free from religious problems but that waaay of topic.

Not all Christians are whackos of course. As I said previously my mates are all religious but they are a very laid back about it. I think the OP said it best about the bible (or Quran) when people see it as 'infallible'. So I can see why some might think that about Tarot cards - if you follow the bible blindly. Most Catholics (even in the Vatican) tend to support science as in Evolution. Unlike say the Discovery institute bods who built a replica of the ark.

Quote from: DocJones on July 25, 2022, 11:05:45 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on July 25, 2022, 07:20:50 AM
Well to bring it back on topic.

What's the overall feeling here then. Do most evangelicals believe that using props is a sin, or at least leads you into spiritual peril by contacting unwanted and possibly evil supernatural attention?

One third of Christians are evangelicals.  And most evangelicals reside outside of North America and Europe.
The evangelicals in the USA share such disparate beliefs the question you ask is not really answerable under the
premise "What do evangelicals believe about tarot (or props)?".
I would presume you would get wildly different answers from a Catholic evangelical, Methodist, Pentacostal and a Seventh-Day Adventist.

Props are okay, Tarot cards not too sure, since I personally don't think any of those things really work (unless maybe you make a deal with the devil) I would have no problem using them as randomizers, but I wouldn't really use them in their intended use.

What I find fascinating is the need of Rob, "I", Leon_ and others to evangelize Christians in a thread that's obviously not aimed at them and I will point that discussion of Religion outside of the realm of the question is off topic.

Given the OP asked I will assume he feels insecure in ussing them, IMHO that's your Guardian Angel talking to you, you ignore the voice at your own risk.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 25, 2022, 01:17:12 PM
What I find fascinating is the need of Rob, "I", Leon_ and others to evangelize Christians in a thread that's obviously not aimed at them and I will point that discussion of Religion outside of the realm of the question is off topic.

What I find even more fascinating is that you said I was on your ignore list - So please put me on that list.

Also, I've tried to bring it back on topic. I find it a highly interesting conversation.

And as for your last point. Welcome to the internet... This is a forum for chat is it not? How many threads have you 'interacted' with that were not aimed at you I wonder?

Anyway, let's keep it on the topic at hand before Pundit has a heart attack.

Quote from: Leon_ap_Hywel on July 25, 2022, 11:26:47 AM

Can't add value to trash. Which is where religion belongs.

OK.  So the OP was asking for the thoughts of practicing Christians on the use of Tarot cards.  You are, admittedly, not a Christian.  So why do you think your opinion matters?  Some things aren't about you.

I once had an argument with a person who thought that atheism created narcissists.  Once you accepted that there is nothing larger than yourself, it only stands to reason that you should be the central focus of your concern.  I disagreed with him.  I think it's the other way around.  Narcissists are attracted to atheism, because it reinforces their already held beliefs that they are the most important things in the universe.  As you can see from the commentary on this thread, these narcissists can't even fathom that their opinions are irrelevant to this topic, and they are still trying to make it about themselves.  It's like the old joke: How can you tell if someone is a vegan, atheist, or into CrossFit?  Just wait a second... they'll tell you.  Not all atheists are narcissists, but they are certainly over-represented...

As to the OP, I think there's another angle to this as well.  The idea that "magic" is real and outside the purview of God is a very Old Testament view (that multiple gods and powers exist and are in a struggle for worship and supremacy).  I think there is an argument to be made that a New Testament view would assert that there is no "magic" outside of God's miracles (with demonic possession a separate discussion... as it features prominently in the NT), and therefore, Tarot cards are only harmful if you actually believe they work.  So it's no big deal to use them in a game, any more than to use a dragon in that game, because you recognize that they are fictional and have no real power.  Only when you fear them do you risk sin, as you are attributing to them a power reserved for God alone.  Just an added consideration...

As I saw a fair number of Catholic positions on the first few pages, I'll add a Protestant one.

I actually know at least two people (a couple) who are practicing occultists. I think they are actually some manner of Irish Druidic and unless I am mistaken, I think Tarot cards are more a central European thing, so these particular people would probably not use Tarot cards specifically, but they do practice divination. And as an FYI, I cut this relationship because I suspect one of them attempted to lace a drink of mine with something (I don't know what) because it abruptly lost all carbonation and he was the only one who was close to it.

He had been a friend of mine since my sophomore year in highschool some 15 years prior. This is not one of my fonder memories. However, they are still in the friends of friends of friends circle, and I can't do much about that. Now, I understand having people like this in my extended social network makes me the exception and not the norm, but I would not voluntarily play a game with a real Tarot card deck because it could send the wrong signals. You know it's just a deck of cards, and I know it's just a deck of cards...but people who don't think that way do exist.

I want to reiterate that I do think that players can responsibly use things like a Tarot card deck. It's just a deck of cards with artworks on them. But at the same time, real occultists are not so rare and giving them an inch seems unnecessary.

Quote from: Leon_ap_Hywel on July 25, 2022, 04:12:20 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 24, 2022, 02:29:14 PM

Quote from: Leon_ap_Hywel on July 23, 2022, 06:00:36 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 23, 2022, 10:55:17 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 23, 2022, 10:25:28 AM

Quote from: Leon_ap_Hywel on July 23, 2022, 07:52:40 AM
Christians have thoughts? Don't they just follow their made up instruction manual? Usually badly.

Considering how much of our modern intellectual world is based on Christianity, and how much of our intellectual world derives from said instruction manual, yes they certainly do have thoughts.

Didn't Christians pretty much lift all those intellectual elements right out of Plato and Aristotle, though? It's not like the philosophical elements of Christianity arouse out of a vacuum of Abrahamic purity. Most of the Western intellectualism people attribute to Christians these days comes from pagan Greeks and enlightenment thinkers who were often critical of church dogma.

Don't you know Christian's invented everything, even their own god! Not at all based on a god from someone else's religion who was probably also ripped off from older religions.

Nope original fairytale all around.

Wow. Your point of view is so incredibly edgy! What method of time travel did you use to get here from 2004?

Nah I'm more an eighties/nineties guy, I've had a Christian education and it doesn't hold up to serious scrutiny. But, to bring back to rpgs you don't see the stupid in a guy playing a made up game letting his made up beliefs be effected by other made up beliefs (half of which he probably thinks are untrue since they're pagan) rather than just having fun with his mates?

Right, here's my Admin moment to you: this is not quite an official warning yet, but this thread is for talking about tarot cards in Kult, and it is in the broader sense acceptable to talk about whether Christianity should affect someone's choices in RPG play in general. That's allowed.
But just making posts where you mock or attempt to "debunk" Christianity in general is NOT on topic for this thread. So I would suggest you walk carefully.

Quote from: Chris24601 on July 25, 2022, 07:16:09 AM
As off-topic as this is veering might I suggest relocating the discussion to Pundit's own forum (presuming he's even interested)?

No. People just need to stay on topic. Or they'll be banned.

Quote from: Leon_ap_Hywel on July 25, 2022, 11:10:59 AM

Quote from: DocJones on July 25, 2022, 11:05:45 AM
I would presume you would get wildly different answers from a Catholic evangelical than a Seventh Day Adventist.

And all equally as nonsensical.

Right. THIS is now you OFFICIAL WARNING.
The purpose of this thread was clearly to talk about how/whether someone's Christianity should affect their purchase/use of RPGs. It was not to debate the validity of Christianity itself.

Don't post off-topic again, on this thread or any other thread, or you'll be permanently banned.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 25, 2022, 04:28:09 PM
The purpose of this thread was clearly to talk about how/whether someone's Christianity should affect their purchase/use of RPGs.

That opens up the thread even more in that case.

Since I've been RPGing since I was 13 that meant I was a heavy believer for many decades when I was playing. However, even when I believed I never let any of that satanic nonsense make me believe that RPGs were bad or evil. Or that if you play evil characters you were a bad person, etc.

Most people just balked at the concept and continued to play completely unimpeded. We (mostly) all greeted the satanic panic as a bizarre American phenomenon.

As far as I'm concerned Role Playing is just mental flatulence and has no effect on anything (except your serotonin levels). That is unless someone is emotionally disturbed or a schizo who's off their meds. Just like Marilyn Manson who were not responsible for the columbine shooting. The two little kunts that did it were broken and truly evil people.