Quote from: Pat;1041878That's just a particularly strident version. I'd say D&D has reflected the mores of its time since at least the 1980s. People from the modern world, poorly disguised with a thin veneer of RenFaire trappings, and no attempt to smooth over the resultant logical inconsistencies. Which makes sense, because once D&D expanded beyond the historical simulation crowd, it was easier to play "you and me, but with swords and spells" than to try to get into a very alien mindset.

That's been a trend in fiction as well. Younger readers today typically find books written 30 and 40 years ago very difficult to engage with. The most common complaint is they're cold and detached. That's because modern fiction aims to put the reader right in the skin of the POV character, hearing every thought and feeling every emotion. The writing term is 'hot' characterization. In contrast, fiction from the mid-20th century and earlier had a more distant authorial stance. It didn't matter as much if the characters behaved in a way alien to your mores, because you weren't right inside the character's skin, you were watching the character from a distance. To put it in videogame terms, fiction used to take an isometric view of the world, while today it's almost all first-person shooter.

Quote from: trechriron;1041849Heraldry. If the Pointer or Dexter fields have a rainbow, Viola! Your in gay town. Have fun (or don't as you are so inclined...)!

* Orson Welles slow clap *

Quote from: Haffrung;1041889That's been a trend in fiction as well. Younger readers today typically find books written 30 and 40 years ago very difficult to engage with. The most common complaint is they're cold and detached. That's because modern fiction aims to put the reader right in the skin of the POV character, hearing every thought and feeling every emotion. The writing term is 'hot' characterization. In contrast, fiction from the mid-20th century and earlier had a more distant authorial stance. It didn't matter as much if the characters behaved in a way alien to your mores, because you weren't right inside the character's skin, you were watching the character from a distance. To put it in videogame terms, fiction used to take an isometric view of the world, while today it's almost all first-person shooter.

I think young people can't deal with classic books because they're too busy standing on your lawn and their music is just noise. And they have no respect for how we knew so much more when we were their age.

But I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise; any references you can share? I can't see any stronger tendency to distant authorial stance in books from mid-20th century and earlier, but it's not like what I've read is a significant cross-section.

Quote from: rawma;1041927I think young people can't deal with classic books because they're too busy standing on your lawn and their music is just noise. And they have no respect for how we knew so much more when we were their age.

But I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise; any references you can share? I can't see any stronger tendency to distant authorial stance in books from mid-20th century and earlier, but it's not like what I've read is a significant cross-section.

I can't speak to stance in fiction.

However, my Old Testament professor (who was also my advisor, and I used to hang around in his office) told me that over the last 20 or 30 years he'd noticed a definite change in the way students read; younger students read everything as if it were an instruction book, and he now had to spend a good chunk of class time teaching how to read different kinds of literature in different ways, because the OT contains legends, poetry, wisdom texts, theological essays, liturgy, songs, royal chronicles, and morality tales (at least).  And my experience in class bore this out as well.

Make of this what you will.  (I could make a hat, or a corsage, or a pterodactyl...)

Stylistically, the way books are written definitely change over time. Stuff written in the late 1800s has a different style than the 1940s, has a different style to the 70s, to the etc. etc.

But I've not noticed it having much of an effect on how people who read for pleasure enjoy characters to be written. The big thing is just for them to be interesting.

While I'm not exactly young myself (I have an adult son), I have a job that keeps me in touch with a hell of a lot of teen and early 20s creatives, and to be perfectly honest, most of them have no problem creating or reading about characters who don't have mindsets like their own.

Quote from: tenbones;1041336I would also add - there is a good litmus test to test the benefits of this ideology in practice in the RPG industry.


How many of those of us here would be allowed to produce RPG products as we want if those people we rail against actually did control everything as they want to? Probably very few.

This isn't over, they have a literally unlimited supply of outrage-axes to grind because those outrage-axes aren't really the issue - YOU are. They want revenge against those that don't share their ideology and they have devised their own system of Outrage Points which they virtue-signal to one another to gain XP to keep the axes flying. There is no end to this until they go broke or we create platforms that will fearlessly support *all* ideas.

Right now its mob rule.

And as we have seen in recent years. People are being shut out who dont "conform". Sometimes it is covert like on BGG and OBS. Sometimes its not so covert like EnWorld or RPG.net. Or the growing incidents of SJWs forcing a publisher to change their books content, be it a piece of art or a whole entry or more.

So far it seems, and I stress, seems, to be sporadic. Least in the RPG biz. Outside RPGs though all bets are off. Comic books have been all but taken over by groups of SJWs and Marvel in particular is in bad shape and others are looking to follow soon if not allready.

Note when I say comic book it just an example of another type of media. My points can be applied to other type of media like video.

Quote from: Omega;1042129So far it seems, and I stress, seems, to be sporadic. Least in the RPG biz. Outside RPGs though all bets are off. Comic books have been all but taken over by groups of SJWs and Marvel in particular is in bad shape and others are looking to follow soon if not allready.

Comics Books hobbyists don't have a wellspring of open content or public domain to use when they need to tell the mainstream publishers to fuck off. Also the appeal of comics books is in large part due to people liking DC characters, Marvel characters, etc. Stuff that is controlled by other people through IP law.

RPGs in contrast has a more nuanced appeal. Some play because they like a specific IP like Forgotten Realms. Those hobbyists are in the same boat as comic book hobbyists. While other like a specific game system like D&D or GURPS. Some hobbyists are screwed when the game itself has no open content other are not. So it is a mixed bag.

But then many hobbyists play and like a specific genre like horror, science fictions (different styles), and of course fantasy. Genres that resulted from smashing together of hundreds of cultural references into a generic stew that people can pick out of to publish or share their ideas with. Coupled with the game system that are open content means that it easier to start sharing and publishing with RPGs than it is with comic books.

People want to invest creatively at different levels. Some are willing to do the work to build everything from scratch. Other just have an idea for a cool magic items or an adventure and are happy to adapt to something that just "works". With comics books you have to start from scratch with an original creation in addition to everything else you need to make something to share or publish.

Because of the nature of digital technology and the widespread availability of open content within the industry. The impact of any pressure group gaining "control" is virtually nil. The worst case scenario at the moment is twofold.

1) OBS policies change. While this would hurt it is mitigated by the numerous  alternative channels for distribution.
2) The limited number of print distributors. There are not that many companies distributing physical products to game store. However this is mitigated by the fact that their customers are game stores not individual hobbyists. There are thousands of game stores.

When calculating the effect of any pressure group you have to ask the question "Where can they strike?" What the point of control?

Fannon got himself banned from TBP for doxxing.

Innocent people don't doxx others. They wouldn't even think of it as a reflexive action. Only someone already deep into depravity would.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1042688Fannon got himself banned from TBP for doxxing.

Innocent people don't doxx others. They wouldn't even think of it as a reflexive action. Only someone already deep into depravity would.

What a load of shit. The over-reactionary thought police freaked out when he mentioned a name. Because it's ok to mention his name in the accusation, but not OK for him to mention a name.

That is not Doxxing You fucking imbecile.

It's like saying that because I loaded my gun last week that I'm now a child murderer. Go spread your reality TV sensationalist bullshit somewhere else. I'm sure that E! has a forum somewhere.

This is just a strongly worded reminder to everyone to STAY ON TOPIC, and specifically to stay in the framework of the hobby. Posting about general politics will get you in trouble.

What IS the topic?  Because quite frankly, this is another instance of inability to remove politics from this hobby.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1042688Fannon got himself banned from TBP for doxxing.

Innocent people don't doxx others. They wouldn't even think of it as a reflexive action. Only someone already deep into depravity would.

Who'd he dox? Where'd he do it?

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1042868Who'd he dox? Where'd he do it?

In a thread on TBP in Roleplaying Open. He doxxed one of his accusers. The mods there called it doxxing. I only am reporting their definition.

The mods closed that thread for obvious reasons. But only within the last few days handed out a Permanant Ban on him.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1042873In a thread on TBP in Roleplaying Open. He doxxed one of his accusers. The mods there called it doxxing. I only am reporting their definition.

The mods closed that thread for obvious reasons. But only within the last few days handed out a Permanant Ban on him.

He named the accuser(s), I believe. Is that really doxxing?

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1042875He named the accuser(s), I believe. Is that really doxxing?

I didn't make the call on defining it. The mods there did.