Quote from: Spinachcat;1041255Has there been any epilogue to the Sean Patrick Fannon drama?

There won't be.  He's done, he's gone.  He'll never have any more 'big' work for anything.  He'll be lucky to be able to flip burgers.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041179Doesn't matter.  Thinking that the Rich who pretend to be on either side give a shit about anything other than themselves is a mistake.  It's all pantomime and shadow puppets.  George Bush I condemned Michael Dukakis for being a "card carrying ACLU member" so the notion that the Rich Right are in favor of civil liberties for anyone other than themselves is laughable.

The notion that any of the Rich care for anything is laughable.  Politics is an elaborate pantomime put on to distract the masses because it hurts long term revenue less than actual war.

I'm gonna go a little meta here...

By "Rich" you're really just saying "people in power". Not all "Rich" people are ideologues. But most ideologies tend to be led by people that happen to be wealthy. I agree it's shadow puppetry. The key here is which shadow of the ideology has been customized to press your buttons to get you to look at it? That's how these cults are formed. It's not just about people being "Rich" it's a schema of manipulation that goes from an ideological urge that is honed down to a set of beliefs and perspectives designed to draw others to the cause.

The level which you interact with such ideologies may be radically different than the source. Because ultimately it doesn't matter, it's for a designed effect. Usually this is in reaction to an established power-structure. That's how Marxism views the world - and that's how Post-Modernism has paralyzed it's adherents (and many of them don't even realize this) because the world has become so complex, they offer a customized narrative that pretends to explain it all in the simplest terms. And like all good religions it has netted a lot of fish.

The Powerful, those that exercise power, understand wealth is a tool. At each tier of society - you'll find people trying to exercise their power. Wealth is irrelevant to these people this far down the pyramid except for the fact RPG's are a delicate cottage-industry that takes very little to destroy. Ironically this far down, the real motives of these ideologies are so mutated they resemble very little of the core tenets. Just like most religions. This is also by design.

What we're seeing here with ENWorld and SPF is merely the point where the ideology has dripped and congealed down to this tier where ideologues will do as they do: try to establish their dominance over this industry/structure by nearly any means possible. Yes it hurts long term revenue... for people at this level. For those higher up who have perpetuated these ideas, it doesn't affect them at all. This is just the culture-war playing itself out. Again, by design. The ideological foot-soldiers that are true believers *are* pretending they're fighting for this fantasy-term "Social Justice" (which ironically perpetuates injustice) and bullies those that don't ascribe to this belief within their orbit of influence into "going along" with it... or else.

SJW's don't like Apostates. Cannibalism is tolerated in their religion.

I would also add - there is a good litmus test to test the benefits of this ideology in practice in the RPG industry.


How many of those of us here would be allowed to produce RPG products as we want if those people we rail against actually did control everything as they want to? Probably very few.

This isn't over, they have a literally unlimited supply of outrage-axes to grind because those outrage-axes aren't really the issue - YOU are. They want revenge against those that don't share their ideology and they have devised their own system of Outrage Points which they virtue-signal to one another to gain XP to keep the axes flying. There is no end to this until they go broke or we create platforms that will fearlessly support *all* ideas.

Right now its mob rule.

Quote from: tenbones;1041336How many of those of us here would be allowed to produce RPG products as we want if those people we rail against actually did control everything as they want to? Probably very few.

Depends how you feel about Mike Mearls since I'd likely only make product for 5e.  I know he gets maligned around here frequently for his forays into SJW antics but he's not that deep into it -- probably just Seattle tinted glasses.

I like the way you think, Tenbones.

I'm gonna mail ENworld and let them know what I think of the fact that they permit character assassination in their news (i.e it's appalling).

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1041328There won't be.  He's done, he's gone.  He'll never have any more 'big' work for anything.  He'll be lucky to be able to flip burgers.

Actually, he's got a kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/supermouse/freedom-squadron-a-savage-worlds-setting/description) to finish up and deliver before that.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1041274Can't control how the audience (or mob) interpret you.

Especially when the MSM scores points (clicks, eyeballs, virtue signals) when choosing the worst, and often twisted interpretation.  

But Slayer used that to sell more shirts than albums!

Quote from: Opaopajr;1041274Tzeench laughs.

Tzeench always seems like the least-worst Chaos god...until he turns people inside out and melts the walls around them.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1041274If there's a Ctrl-Left, and an Alt-Right, who will be so kind as to provide us a Del-All?

:eek:

I was looking in the fridge for the awesomesauce, but obviously you drank it all!!

Thank you for always injecting humor into these wank-debacle-fests.

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1041344I'm gonna mail ENworld and let them know what I think of the fact that they permit character assassination in their news (i.e it's appalling).

Welcome aboard Lychee!!

This place is Mos Eisley, but enjoy your freedom to post here about most anything - regardless if we agree or disagree.

Quote from: KingCheops;1041342Depends how you feel about Mike Mearls since I'd likely only make product for 5e.  I know he gets maligned around here frequently for his forays into SJW antics but he's not that deep into it -- probably just Seattle tinted glasses.

But that's just it - If those people *could* control the industry as they wanted to, Mearls would be sniffed out and crushed. Or he'd just go along with things until eventually he makes a misstep. Otherwise it will continue until it proves to be financially unviable - which may happen sooner than later by going this route.

Edit: Case in point, let's pretend I accept your position he's faking it. He's certainly appears to be willing to sacrifice others who may be like himself (SPF) to the monsters and tacitly approve of their antics. So either way - there is no difference.

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1041344I like the way you think, Tenbones.

I'm gonna mail ENworld and let them know what I think of the fact that they permit character assassination in their news (i.e it's appalling).

It will not do you any good, you won't convince anyone there that they're wrong because there is precisely zero evidence that would suffice to convince them. But feel free.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1040872jhkim? Seriously? Worst.Crusader.Ever.

His vociferous defense of free speech makes him ineligible for SJW membership.

Don't confuse "center left" for "radical left". There are miles between those positions, even though they might vote similarly in our two party system.

Makes me wonder if the pendulum might swing further until the "center left" become the "progressive right"! Without changing a single opinion!

And considering how viciously free speech is under attack, we need ALL the allies we can.

We don't need to agree on anything, except the right to verbally disagree.

Thanks, Spinachcat. There are real attacks on free speech that need addressing. Too often, there's a lot of conflation between:

1) Shutting down publication of conservative or not-so-conservative material - i.e. trying to get some product de-listed from online stores for lack of representation.

2) Publishing liberal material - i.e. elves in Mordenkainen's Tome, a liberal story game, or whatever.

I think most gamers don't care one way or the other about political fighting over games online. Of those who do, though, many just care about identifying with their side. i.e. Some liberals complain about the outrage of conservatives at gender-fluid elves, while being outraged themselves as Eurocentrism in a product line. Conversely, some conservatives complain about liberal outrage over Eurocentrism, while being outraged themselves at liberal content being published.

Quote from: tenbones;1041351It will not do you any good, you won't convince anyone there that they're wrong because there is precisely zero evidence that would suffice to convince them. But feel free.

I think it's important they know that there are people who see right through their deceit. This is a numbers game, too. After all, SJWs are just a minority trying to get power. If there are enough people to voice their disagreement (among other things), it won't happen.

Quote from: jcfiala;1041346Actually, he's got a kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/supermouse/freedom-squadron-a-savage-worlds-setting/description) to finish up and deliver before that.

If he's been removed from the Savage Worlds team, and this is a SW project, he's probably not going to be the one delivering it.  In fact any contribution he made to that will be surreptitiously removed from it.  If it ever comes out.  Unpersoning your target is the number one tactic of these ideologues.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1041373If he's been removed from the Savage Worlds team, and this is a SW project, he's probably not going to be the one delivering it.  In fact any contribution he made to that will be surreptitiously removed from it.  If it ever comes out.  Unpersoning your target is the number one tactic of these ideologues.

It depends. SPF has stepped back from working with Pinnacle (the company who makes Savage Worlds and the largest number of settings for that system) on Rifts, but Freedom Squadron is being done by a different company. Pinnacle didn't publicly denounce him and Evil Beagle Games is still a Savage Worlds licensee, so while he may have fewer projects in the future I don't think he'll be gone completely.

Quote from: tenbones;1041335I'm gonna go a little meta here...

By "Rich" you're really just saying "people in power". Not all "Rich" people are ideologues. But most ideologies tend to be led by people that happen to be wealthy. I agree it's shadow puppetry. The key here is which shadow of the ideology has been customized to press your buttons to get you to look at it? That's how these cults are formed. It's not just about people being "Rich" it's a schema of manipulation that goes from an ideological urge that is honed down to a set of beliefs and perspectives designed to draw others to the cause.

The level which you interact with such ideologies may be radically different than the source. Because ultimately it doesn't matter, it's for a designed effect. Usually this is in reaction to an established power-structure. That's how Marxism views the world - and that's how Post-Modernism has paralyzed it's adherents (and many of them don't even realize this) because the world has become so complex, they offer a customized narrative that pretends to explain it all in the simplest terms. And like all good religions it has netted a lot of fish.

The Powerful, those that exercise power, understand wealth is a tool. At each tier of society - you'll find people trying to exercise their power. Wealth is irrelevant to these people this far down the pyramid except for the fact RPG's are a delicate cottage-industry that takes very little to destroy. Ironically this far down, the real motives of these ideologies are so mutated they resemble very little of the core tenets. Just like most religions. This is also by design.

What we're seeing here with ENWorld and SPF is merely the point where the ideology has dripped and congealed down to this tier where ideologues will do as they do: try to establish their dominance over this industry/structure by nearly any means possible. Yes it hurts long term revenue... for people at this level. For those higher up who have perpetuated these ideas, it doesn't affect them at all. This is just the culture-war playing itself out. Again, by design. The ideological foot-soldiers that are true believers *are* pretending they're fighting for this fantasy-term "Social Justice" (which ironically perpetuates injustice) and bullies those that don't ascribe to this belief within their orbit of influence into "going along" with it... or else.

SJW's don't like Apostates. Cannibalism is tolerated in their religion.

For the vast majority of human history, "wealth" and "power" are so closely tied that they might as well be synonymous.  This is somewhat less true in some places with a now impoverished aristocracy, but especially in the US wealth IS power, and vice versa.