Quote from: Ras Algethi;1038787I guess if you ignore movies, tv shows and video games you'd be right.... but alas.

So, like I said, badly exaggerated by whatever entertainment media you've been consuming.  Those are all pretend. They set things in Los Angeles and New York because those are the two biggest cities the nation has, and also are where the entertainment conglomerates are at. The west coast isn't actually much like movies and tv shows and video games. In fact, much of Los Angeles doesn't even speak English, and isn't much aware of gay people, much less an agenda regarding sexuality. There is no gay police.  90%+ of the time nobody cares if you don't mention sexuality or if you only mention heterosexuality.

Quote from: jhkim;1038979Ras, you claim that I have a problem with any game that lacks non-hetero couples, but I deny it.

Perhaps, but you lie often when your agenda is at stake.

Quote from: Mistwell;1038997So, like I said, badly exaggerated by whatever entertainment media you've been consuming.  Those are all pretend. They set things in Los Angeles and New York because those are the two biggest cities the nation has, and also are where the entertainment conglomerates are at. The west coast isn't actually much like movies and tv shows and video games. In fact, much of Los Angeles doesn't even speak English, and isn't much aware of gay people, much less an agenda regarding sexuality. There is no gay police.  90%+ of the time nobody cares if you don't mention sexuality or if you only mention heterosexuality.

So, it doesn't happen except when it does. Great, glad you agree.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1038845Strawman.  I didn't say legally, I said professionally.  If you don't toe the line, you will be doxed, you're place of work notified and you will be shamed over whatever crime you committed.  And you can find all the lurid details just by doing a search on the interwebs.

It's not a strawman, I also didn't say "legally" unless you mistook "gay police" for an actual police force as opposed to the joke it was. I too meant professionally. This idea that gamergate is somehow representative of professions in general is fantasy. There is no line to toe. Sexuality doesn't come up in most endeavors. And if it does, it usually comes up as heterosexuality, and nobody gives a crap. The number of doxing events is so minuscule as to be nearly non-existent. 99%+ of people don't even know what that term means. And you'd HAVE to use the net to search out those details because the depths of the net is the only place that really mentions that kinds of stuff. It's not reality for most people.  

The real world of the west coast is much like the real world anywhere else. Almost everyone is just doing boring jobs that have no political agendas at all. Heck, most people on the west coast don't even vote! Throw a rock and you're liable to hit someone who doesn't give one crap about politics of any kind out here (though they might sue you for throwing a rock at them). For the most part there is nobody monitoring your profession here to make sure you follow some evil liberal agenda, with extremely rare exception. The entertainment industry has focused almost exclusively on those tiny exceptions, and convinced you that's the generalization here. It's really not. People are pretty ordinary out here, as a generalization.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1039000So, it doesn't happen except when it does. Great, glad you agree.

It doesn't happen as a generalization. It's exceptionally rare. Portraying exceptionally rare things as typical is a misrepresentation. You've been called on it.

Quote from: Mistwell;1039003It doesn't happen as a generalization. It's exceptionally rare. Portraying exceptionally rare things as typical is a misrepresentation. You've been called on it.

Which is whole shtick.  He really gets off on running in circles screaming "SJW!  SJW!" while frantically pissing all over the place.

If SJWs really exist, he's the best tool I ever encountered for creating more of them.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1039006Which is whole shtick.  He really gets off on running in circles screaming "SJW!  SJW!" while frantically pissing all over the place.

If SJWs really exist, he's the best tool I ever encountered for creating more of them.

Oh they exist and I know some of them (and for the most part they're fine folks, as long as you stay away from their hobby). It's that almost their entire existence concerning social justice issues is online, and to each other online, as a sort of hobby. In their regular jobs, they don't behave that way, mostly because politics of any kind just doesn't come up at work for most people.

I mean, did people think virtue signalling was being done for no reason? They signal that stuff online to each other because otherwise people wouldn't know about that aspect of their opinion. Because most of the time, it just would never come up.  

Sort of like most of the time nobody would know at work I play D&D a lot, or read fantasy novels. I am not hiding those aspects of my life...it just doesn't come up in regular conversation very often. Because we're discussing work. Which is what most social justice people I know do as well.

I think people just don't want to admit how boring people are in professions. It's more interesting to imagine a gay police operating in professions on the west coast, than it is to imagine the same conversations they also have at work. About forms. And what's for lunch. And vacation.

Quote from: Mistwell;1039003It doesn't happen as a generalization. It's exceptionally rare. Portraying exceptionally rare things as typical is a misrepresentation. You've been called on it.

27 LGBT Characters Were Killed Off TV This Year

62 Lesbian & Bisexual Female Characters Killed Over Past Two Television Seasons

TV Writers Need to Stop Killing Off Their Gay Characters

More lesbian and bisexual characters on TV have been killed off than ever before

LGBTQ+ representation in film and TV is simply not good enough

Don't Play With Our Emotions: Black Panther and Queer Representation

What Will It Take to Get a Gay Character in Star Wars?

WHY WE NEED MORE GAY CHARACTERS IN VIDEO GAMES

Is The Walking Dead About to Repeat One of Its Worst Mistakes? (Hint gay character death)

#BuryYourGays: 11 LGBT TV Characters Killed Off in 2017, From 'Kingdom' to 'The Walking Dead'

Kingdom Come Owes Its Popularity To 'Realism' And Conservative Politics

Kingdom Come Deliverance was accused of racism for not having people of color in game. Historically how many people of color were in Medieval Europe (1300-1400), in what regions were they concentrated and how did they get there?

Kingdom Come Deliverance's quest for historical accuracy is a fool's errand

Yep, rarely happens.

Quote from: jhkimIs this lazy writing unless there is a story-important reason for her to be Rentsch's lover?

Quote from: Tod13;1038996It follows the advice I always hear about writing modules: setup situations and problems, not solutions. Maybe it is important, maybe it isn't. It depends on what the players do. Maybe the PCs kill Dala and show up trying to get on Rentsch's good side, while wearing her jewelry. Or maybe they kidnap Rentsch and use that as leverage to get Dala to steal something for them, since the party lost their thief.

Yeah, I should have said - that would be my usual preference.  I generally like having NPCs come across as real people, with various details and color.  I even like a number of sourcebooks that portray a detailed location and/or NPCs - and that don't even necessarily have a main adventure, or just have a short list of adventure hooks that the GM has to flesh out.  Various city or village modules are like this, say.  Give some NPCs with various details and conflicting plans and motivations, throw the PCs into the mix, and there are all sorts of different adventures that can result.

Quote from: Mistwell;1039007I think people just don't want to admit how boring people are in professions. It's more interesting to imagine a gay police operating in professions on the west coast, than it is to imagine the same conversations they also have at work. About forms. And what's for lunch. And vacation.

"Chartered accountancy is dull.  Dull, dull, dull, my GOD it's dull!"

"But you, Mister Pewtey, are a dull person."

Quote from: Mistwell;1039007I think people just don't want to admit how boring people are in professions. It's more interesting to imagine a gay police operating in professions on the west coast, than it is to imagine the same conversations they also have at work. About forms. And what's for lunch. And vacation.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1039013"Chartered accountancy is dull.  Dull, dull, dull, my GOD it's dull!"

"But you, Mister Pewtey, are a dull person."

Echo chambers and all that.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;103900927 LGBT Characters Were Killed Off TV This Year

62 Lesbian & Bisexual Female Characters Killed Over Past Two Television Seasons

TV Writers Need to Stop Killing Off Their Gay Characters

More lesbian and bisexual characters on TV have been killed off than ever before

LGBTQ+ representation in film and TV is simply not good enough

Don't Play With Our Emotions: Black Panther and Queer Representation

What Will It Take to Get a Gay Character in Star Wars?

WHY WE NEED MORE GAY CHARACTERS IN VIDEO GAMES

Is The Walking Dead About to Repeat One of Its Worst Mistakes? (Hint gay character death)

#BuryYourGays: 11 LGBT TV Characters Killed Off in 2017, From 'Kingdom' to 'The Walking Dead'

Kingdom Come Owes Its Popularity To 'Realism' And Conservative Politics

Kingdom Come Deliverance was accused of racism for not having people of color in game. Historically how many people of color were in Medieval Europe (1300-1400), in what regions were they concentrated and how did they get there?

Kingdom Come Deliverance's quest for historical accuracy is a fool's errand

Yep, rarely happens.

You are, again, confusing entertainment with reality.

Here is the statement you're supporting, "Why was Monte Cook adamant about including this bit of character in the module? Because West Coast America will destroy him professionally if he didn't."

Of course you can Google stuff people have written about sexuality and entertainment.   That doesn't make it "not rare".  I can probably find 200 articles on furries and entertainment for example.

None of that has anything to do with professionals receiving orders in their ordinary professions. There is no actual gay police. This is mostly just crap people talk about on the internet as their hobby. You will note that all those articles you posted didn't get anyone's profession destroyed. It's all just a bunch of cranks cranking about their pet topic. If Big Bang Theory writers don't include a gay character in their episodes, do you honestly think someone's career will be destroyed for it? No. Some crank might write an article about it...which will have no meaningful impact on anyone's career.

Let me ask you, what is it you think really happens in businesses on the west coast with reference to this topic? Do you think there is some sort of watch-dog in companies? Describe for me what you think is typical for this topic. I'd be fascinated to hear the perceptions of those outside of the West Coast concerning what they think happens to working people out here.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1038994I wrote "That is not to say that I am in any way opposed to featuring homosexual NPCs at all, but make it part of the NPC's story rather than just tag it on."

Musing about this - I think I'm the exact opposite - certainly with D&D, I like one-liners like "Sam the hobbit brigand and his love Frodo live here - 3d6gp each" or "Aragorn the evil Ranger dwells here dreaming of Arwen, his elven paramour, he has 543gp and a +1 sword".

It's when I get massive text walls of authorial fanfic concerning NPC romances that I get annoyed. Keep it one-line tags and I can develop it if I want, or ignore.

Quote from: Mistwell;1039018You are, again, confusing entertainment with reality.

Ahh, so we're back to it "doesn't happen, except when it does" again.

QuoteHere is the statement you're supporting, "Why was Monte Cook adamant about including this bit of character in the module? Because West Coast America will destroy him professionally if he didn't."

No, the statement I am supporting is what I said, "I guess if you ignore movies, tv shows and video games you'd be right.... but alas". You know, the one you quoted and responded to. You don't get to shift the goal posts because you don't like the corner you've found yourself in.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1039021Ahh, so we're back to it "doesn't happen, except when it does" again.

Why do you think that reply is pithy? I'm serious. If a meteor kills someone once a century, don't you think it's an honest and fair comment to say, "Don't concern yourself with meteors striking you down"?

Yes, it doesn't happen except IN THE EXTREMELY RARE INSTANCE that it does. That doesn't make a good point for you here. It's not making you look smart or wise or observant. Nobody is being informed or persuaded by you pointing out that some rare thing has happened some rare times in the past, when you describe it in terms of it being common.  

QuoteNo, the statement I am supporting is what I said, "I guess if you ignore movies, tv shows and video games you'd be right.... but alas". You know, the one you quoted and responded to. You don't get to shift the goal posts because you don't like the corner you've found yourself in.

I didn't shift goals. What I quoted is what was being responded to (that's the comment YOU were quoting with your "if you ignore" comment...that's what was "being ignored", people having their professions destroyed for not including a gay character in something). What you're saying isn't true so far. You quoted a bunch of cranks on the net who wrote stuff about how they want entertainment to change...but NOBODY HAD THEIR PROFESSION DESTROYED BY IT. Which was your point.

If you disagree, show me how "in movies" for example people are having their professions destroyed because they didn't include a gay character in their movie where sexuality wasn't even a topic of the movie (like Monte Cooks adventure). I will wait. That's the f'ing claim you made, so let's see it.