Quote from: Ratman_tf;1038704But by exercising their free speech, activists have made grounds on the public opinions on homosexuality.
And they want to throw that all away...

Well I think they reckon they've won - by exercising free speech - so now it's important to get rid of free speech for their enemies, so the norms they've established can't be reversed.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1038697First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

~Martin Niemöller

Wow.  OK, I'm convinced.  James Raggi is literally Hitler!  These Lamentations fans have got to be stopped to prevent the purges!  

But seriously.  I supported Pundit against some of the attack pieces on him with false accusations, say, and I'm opposed to most boycott campaigns. But now we're at the point that just trash-talking someone on G+ is Nazism. That sounds more like a stereotype of SJWs than anything the Lamentations fans have said.

I'll say it - We can be goddamn foul-mouthed, argumentative, offensive mother-fuckers here on theRPGsite.  We trash-talk other people, and we should expect other people to trash-talk us.

Quote from: jhkim;1038705I don't see how this connects to your earlier question, but sure.

You appeared to be advocating for inclusiveness in RPGs by pressuring the publishers and not letting the individual game groups decide. This may have just been your agitation and I could be wrong.

Quote from: jhkim;1038705In my experience, sexual orientation has been a part of playing the RPG from the very beginning. Even when I was a pre-teen playing in the late 1970s and early 1980s, fantasy heroes might get a kiss from a grateful rescued princess, or be distracted by the shapeshifting succubus. Once I started playing Champions, it was pretty standard for PCs to have a steady girlfriend as a Dependent NPC. And once I was a teenager and got into James Bond 007, then active romance plots became a thing. The main focus was on beating the bad guy, but sexual orientation was a regular part of sessions.

I think we were just imitating the fantasy fiction and comics that we read. It was natural to include such things. Romance plots are often central to action movies, comics, and fantasy fiction - so we would tend to put them in our games.

From reading through modules and retrospectives, this doesn't seem uncommon, either. Plenty of modules for various games in the 1980s games mention couples and/or potential romance.

OK, so in your experience sexual orientation was important for roleplaying. In my experience it just didn't come up very often, if at all. Not because a focus on sexual orientation was unwelcome in the game, but because it was hardly ever a driving motivation for the PCs in the adventure.

Come to think of it, it has been my experience that sexual orientation and romantic subplots in the game usually resulted in the GM killing off the PCs love interest as some kind of adventure motivation.

Quote from: jhkim;1038705What is your opinion of including Rufus and Burne as a gay couple in the module? Is there a problem, and if so, what is it?

Personally, I'm pretty familiar with the original Elemental Evil module - and have no problems with it. I haven't read the Return module, but I don't see any inherent problem with Rufus and Burne being a gay couple.

I'm probably going to get dogpiled for this, but there is an inherent problem with Rufus and Burne being listed as a gay couple in the module. It limits the choices that individual GMs have for those two non-player characters' motivations and actions. The more information that an author provides in an adventure about the NPCs, the less utility they have because that information limits their range of possible actions to what would be considered "in character". If the NPC is just a stat block and thus tabula rosa for the most part regarding their character and motivations, the more utility that NPC has for the GM. Nothing homophobic about that, it is just looking at the game product as a game product that needs to be as utilitarian as possible for the buyer to find useful.

From my personal experience most gay people are obsessed with sex to an unhealthy level just like mentally ill sexomaniac, so it's natural to them to seek sex in everything including rpgs.

Quote from: John Scott;1038717From my personal experience most gay people are obsessed with sex to an unhealthy level just like mentally ill sexomaniac, so it's natural to them to seek sex in everything including rpgs.

My personal experience is definitely not the same, most gays I know are definitely not sex-obsessed. There are 'lifestyle gays' who are, but outside Soho they seem a small minority.

Quote from: John Scott;1038717From my personal experience most gay people are obsessed with sex to an unhealthy level just like mentally ill sexomaniac, so it's natural to them to seek sex in everything including rpgs.

IME, most of the sex-obsessed players I've encountered have been old straight men.

Quote from: jhkim;1038708Wow.  OK, I'm convinced.  James Raggi is literally Hitler!  These Lamentations fans have got to be stopped to prevent the purges!  

But seriously.  I supported Pundit against some of the attack pieces on him with false accusations, say, and I'm opposed to most boycott campaigns. But now we're at the point that just trash-talking someone on G+ is Nazism. That sounds more like a stereotype of SJWs than anything the Lamentations fans have said.

I'll say it - We can be goddamn foul-mouthed, argumentative, offensive mother-fuckers here on theRPGsite.  We trash-talk other people, and we should expect other people to trash-talk us.

Ummm... no. I was perfectly ok with Silas being trash-talked by Raggi for his criticism of LotFP. I was not ok with the LotFP fans jumping in and joining in. The lynch mob was to put it lightly, disconcerting, and I was quite surprised when they expanded their attacks to include everyone here. Mmm'kay, ....now that latter expansion of hostilities was completely unwarranted.

You can say it if you want to, and be proud of the fact you can be foul-mouthed, argumentative, and offensive, however you shouldn't, ...and don't speak for all of us, since, as a general rule I make every effort to avoid those behaviors because I realize those behaviors, ...in excess, can do actual damages, and am extra conscious of the actual effects of that. There are other members of this forum that are similarly inclined, so we shouldn't be lumped in with the irregular foul-mouthed visitors that regularly come over here trolling for a fight whenever the action over at the Piazza or RPG.net dies down and they become dreadfully bored and boring.

As a simple example over on G+ I mentioned the Star Lords, ...on purpose, and an exact quote here now... S%$# Lords. Of course the very first thing the mindless SJW Cucks thought was that I was mentioning the Shit Lords, and they all got up in arms about it, and were much more offended when I addressed them thusly, but that was entirely their own imaginations working overtime in the poisonous manner that it does. I did that on purpose a few days ago to demonstrate their clear and present malice and complete disregard for other gamers.

Generally If I really want to call you a name, I will, and I'll do it very openly, however if you go through my posts here for the last fourteen years, I'll be really surprised if you can find more than three examples counting this one, of a time I actually used actual profanity in addressing other gamers. I just don't do it, ...for a very good reason.

So don't include me in the Mos Eisley scum and villainy fantasy, ...because that's not why I'm here now.

Part of the problem is that some people have been brainwashed to see -isms everywhere. To a piece of toilet paper, everything looks shitty.

The overzealous Left sees '-isms' everywhere, the overzealous Right doesn't see them anywhere. This goes double online.

Quote from: John Scott;1038717From my personal experience most gay people are obsessed with sex to an unhealthy level just like mentally ill sexomaniac, so it's natural to them to seek sex in everything including rpgs.

Oh man you must not have met many straight people. You know the ones that don't play RPGs and spend every free moment outside of work trying to mate?

All the people that really have no interests outside of "getting it down"?

I get that we don't swim in the same circles but they exist and their sexuality is obvious because of their primary passions.

Quote from: John Scott;1038717From my personal experience most gay people are obsessed with sex to an unhealthy level just like mentally ill sexomaniac, so it's natural to them to seek sex in everything including rpgs.

Oh man you must not have met many straight people. You know the ones that don't play RPGs and spend every free moment outside of work trying to mate?

All the people that really have no interests outside of "getting it down"?

I get that we don't swim in the same circles but they exist and their sexuality is obvious because of their primary passions.

Edit: I am glad that forums like this exist where people can still share these kinds of observations and actually have them discussed rather than telling the person to shut up and only talk with people of like minds.
I honestly can't think of any other RPG forum where you could get away with saying something like this and not just being banned for it.

I wish they would unleash the sex robot hordes in the US so I wouldn't have to deal with these thirsty dudes in my games.

Quote from: CarlD.;1038730The overzealous Left sees '-isms' everywhere, the overzealous Right doesn't see them anywhere. This goes double online.

Wut? Communism, Feminism and Liberalism are everywhere! Now we have Transgenderism too!

Quote from: Rhedyn;1038732Oh man you must not have met many straight people. You know the ones that don't play RPGs and spend every free moment outside of work trying to mate?

All the people that really have no interests outside of "getting it down"?

I get that we don't swim in the same circles but they exist and their sexuality is obvious because of their primary passions.

Edit: I am glad that forums like this exist where people can still share these kinds of observations and actually have them discussed rather than telling the person to shut up and only talk with people of like minds.
I honestly can't think of any other RPG forum where you could get away with saying something like this and not just being banned for it.

Generally I agree especially with the last paragraph, but we are not exactly like that you describe. We all have or had a number of girlfriends and some of us have wives now. Me and my friends when we gather we don't give a F about sex, about politics or about transgender hentai elfs! We want to play games. RPG is a form of escapism anything that remind us real life is a no go.

I have no desire to offend anyone f I did then I apologize, the reason I made the comment you see is that I have many personal "horror stories" with gay people (most older than me) hitting on me, some are quite comical. (at least from my perspective) No drama here, we are grown up but they where not "emotionaly" very stable.

Although I am a lurker to many sites TheRPG site is the only one that I considered registering both for it allows many different voices to be heard and because I find "the sage advice" of the participants here of high quality.