My group wants to try an OSR game.  The systems that were suggested are Dungeon Crawl Classics, Swords & Wizardry and Lamentations of the Flame Princess. Since they want me to run the game, I get to pick which one we play but I have only a little knowledge of LotFP and no clue about DCC or S&W (which looks like it has 3 versions: light, core and complete?).  

Can anyone explain how the games differ from one another?  Are there some pros and cons that I should be considering or are they all fairly similar and I'll be good just randomly picking any of them?  For now I'm looking to run 3-4 sessions of about 5-6 hours each with 4 players if that makes any difference.

What are you trying to accomplish? S&W tries to distill OD&D into something more comprehensible (with White Box and Complete adding less/more options), LotFP is like a horror-themed version of B/X, and DCC is a version of AD&D mated with D&D 3.X. If you just want a generic "OSR experience", why not just play B/X and be done with it? If I had to pick an OSR game and didn't want to play anything original, I'd use Advanced Labyrinth Lord. Maybe Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea if I wanted a darker all-human game, and Lion & Dragon for something more mid-EVIL in bent.

Again, the answer lies in what you're trying to do. So, what are the goals?

Mostly to play something and have fun.  I know, that's a crap answer.  

Most of us have been playing RPGs for 30+ years and we've just moved on with whatever was coming out as time went on.  So a lot of us started on 1st ed AD&D, then 2nd, 3rd, skipped 4th for Pathfinder and are now playing 5th.  We've played dozens of other games of all types: rules light, rules heavy, story games, etc.  The group in general tends to prefer something slightly heavier than Savage Worlds in rules crunch for ongoing campaigns.

When we were talking about what to play next (our Mutant Year Zero game is going to wind down soon) a few people mentioned "what about that OSR stuff".  They aren't really big forum people and I think the 3 games I mentioned came up just because they happened to hear about them someplace but don't really know anything more than they exist.

They are probably expecting 10' poles, dungeon crawls with danger and gold, fantasy monsters and wizards who throw darts most of the time to save their spells.  If one of those games offers something more than then others we'll take it (domain rules, mass combat, etc) and run with it.

No experience with LotFP.

DCC looks intimidating because of the thickness of the core rulebook, but in reality plays really fast IMO. The vast majority of pages in the rulebook are spells, since each spell gets its own table for effects when cast, so only the spellslinger needs to deal with that stuff. The DCC modules are really good if you want games that are like the old S&S stories where every monster is unique as compared to most modules where monsters are "just another orc" or somesuch. Each class has a couple of ways to bend the rules, but there aren't THAT many options that need to be figured out along the way.

S&W is a pretty standard OD&D-style game, with strengths and weaknesses as discussed ad nauseum in various threads. If you like the power scale, character options, and so forth of OD&D then you should enjoy S&W.

Maybe ACKS?

Quote from: rgalex;1072692Mostly to play something and have fun.  I know, that's a crap answer.  

Most of us have been playing RPGs for 30+ years and we've just moved on with whatever was coming out as time went on.  So a lot of us started on 1st ed AD&D, then 2nd, 3rd, skipped 4th for Pathfinder and are now playing 5th.  We've played dozens of other games of all types: rules light, rules heavy, story games, etc.  The group in general tends to prefer something slightly heavier than Savage Worlds in rules crunch for ongoing campaigns.

When we were talking about what to play next (our Mutant Year Zero game is going to wind down soon) a few people mentioned "what about that OSR stuff".  They aren't really big forum people and I think the 3 games I mentioned came up just because they happened to hear about them someplace but don't really know anything more than they exist.

They are probably expecting 10' poles, dungeon crawls with danger and gold, fantasy monsters and wizards who throw darts most of the time to save their spells.  If one of those games offers something more than then others we'll take it (domain rules, mass combat, etc) and run with it.

Rules Cyclopedia then. It's not OSR and actually the real thing, but covers all those bases. ACKS is, in my opinion, a poor replacement for RC, especially when you consider all the Gazetteers and stuff. If you do full-blown RC with Gazetteers and Wrath of the Immortals, it's pretty much kitchen sink pulp fantasy crossed with steampunk. At low levels it's all about the 10' pole and tons of insta-death in megadungeons, but once you hit 9th level the domain stuff opens up and it's definitely a different game.

If you want to play a game very much like Original D&D, with or without the additional options; welcome to Swords & Wizardry.  White Box FMAG is also in this camp.

DCC is a different take on AD&D.  It does not emulate AD&D rules, but tries to capture that feeling.  It requires different dice than other D&D variants.

LotFP is a D&D variant, with a saucy redhead thrown in.....

I've yet to find a compelling reason to actually use an OSR ruleset.

They may have an interesting custom mechanic or two.  Nick it/them.

Swords and Wizardry is truest to old school D&D, as a retroclone it's the most faithful of the three.  So depending on how strictly you define "OSR" that may be what you want.

LotFP is another retro ruleset, but not quite a straightforward clone.  Only fighters get better at combat, thieves are replaced by specialists who choose the skills they're good at it, the spell list is altered somewhat...  It is a strong contender in it's own right, and even if you don't use it I recommend stealing the encumbrance system, and possibly the Summon spell.  LotFP the name/publisher is famous partly for the adventure line and not the ruleset though, and you don't actually need to run the ruleset to use the adventures, monster stats are entirely compatible.  Look at Tower of the Stargazer for a good basic introductory adventure, or The God That Crawls if you want to throw your players in the deep end of a James Raggi nega-dungeon.

Dungeon Crawl Classics was influenced by the OSR, it shares an OSR aesthetic and some design principles, but is very much it's own thing and falls farthest away from original D&D.  I've played it and had fun, so I can recommend it in it's own right, but I don't consider it OSR in a strict definition.  It would take some work to convert adventures from other systems, and most of the DCC adventures I've seen are extremely linear.  Evocative, imaginative, challenging, weird and strange where other adventures are vanilla, but fundamentally linear.  (If I'm wrong, post some adventure names, I'd love to see them.)

Quote from: Dave R;1072702Dungeon Crawl Classics was influenced by the OSR, it shares an OSR aesthetic and some design principles, but is very much it's own thing and falls farthest away from original D&D.  I've played it and had fun, so I can recommend it in it's own right, but I don't consider it OSR in a strict definition.  It would take some work to convert adventures from other systems, and most of the DCC adventures I've seen are extremely linear.  Evocative, imaginative, challenging, weird and strange where other adventures are vanilla, but fundamentally linear.  (If I'm wrong, post some adventure names, I'd love to see them.)

That's a good summary. Anyone expecting dungeon crawls or other classic play modes from Dungeon Crawl Classics is going to be in for a surprise. It's a good game with some cool adventures, but they're pretty much plot-driven sword and sorcery stories set to ultra-hard mode.

Maybe give Labyrinth Lord a try? Race as class is different than what most modern players expect and it's a very cleanly written set of rules.

I really like the streamlining in Swords & Wizardry - ascending AC (starting at 10) & to-hit bonus of course, but the real trick is the unified save number, which suddenly gives me a neat level-based resolution mechanic for all kinds of stuff, like whether the rescued princess falls in love with her viking rescuer (she did) , without any charts or fiddling with skill points.

S&W is so streamlined I find I prefer 'Complete', it also has the advantage of a comprehensive online SRD  https://www.d20swsrd.com/ which even includes Rob Conley's Blackmarsh campaign setting!

Thanks.

I think most of us would go back and play AD&D again except all but of one of us don't have the books anymore (and his are in a different state).  I think that's why they were looking at some of the new clones/OSR/offshoots.  If we're, potentially, going to be getting new books anyway why not something actually new.

I'm going to take a look at LotFP again, since the pdf is free.  I'll probably also look at S&W and the RC.  DCC's different dice is a bit of a turn off.  Better to save that one for when I hit up a con and can try it without the extra expense.

While I hate using pre-made modules, I'm not against stealing ideas from them.  Some were mentioned above but if anyone else has any to recommend I'm all ears.

Adventures - I use a bunch of free stuff from basicfantasy.org - go to https://www.basicfantasy.org/downloads.html - they are print-at-cost via amazon, too.

JN2 "Monkey Isle" is an excellent riff on Isle of Dread, and would work with DCC and LoTFP as well as S&W.

The fortress in "Fortress Tower & Tomb" riffs off "Palace of the Silver Princess", with goodly duke seduced by cunning thief - it is a lot of fun and definitely useable in a wide variety of ways.

Quote from: rgalex;1072709Thanks.

I think most of us would go back and play AD&D again except all but of one of us don't have the books anymore (and his are in a different state).  I think that's why they were looking at some of the new clones/OSR/offshoots.  If we're, potentially, going to be getting new books anyway why not something actually new.

One last bit of info, in case you're unaware, and then I'll leave the thread for the OSR rule set fans to opine:

You can get an top quality offset print OSRIC book that is all-in-one (PHB, DMG, MM in one book) for less than $30 from Black Blade (you can PM grodog from BB here at the 'site) that is absolutely dripping with art.  The reason it's such a good buy is that there's virtually no profit in it (IIRC other than a few cents due to rounding up to the nearest $).

There is no better value in gaming if your opinion of AD&D is positive.